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  1. #1181
    You have to look at it from Blizz's perspective:

    They can either make unique 5 mans that take extra development time to create fights, art, gear, lore, etc that are more accessible. Not to mention you could run them more often, and with friends exclusively, gearing you up faster and potentially unsub quicker.

    Or they could copy/paste a raid instance where mechanics are nerfed into the ground, you know nobody (or close to it) in the raid, you have less chances at gear, and have a lower droprate chance as well. This slows the gearing process and potentially increases the likelyhood for players to stay subbed.

    If Blizz wants to forget it's 8 year 5-man dungeon model in MoP for a chance to cut down on development and potentially make more money, why not?

    IMO: The new 90 gearing progression is such a poor decision I can't even...
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    You're full of shit honey.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    You should have no expectations for the next expansion IMO...

  2. #1182
    The Lightbringer Yirrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Duval View Post
    I think the no-new-dungeons is creating so much controversy, since a lot of people haven't realized the 'new direction' the game is going yet, and this is a huge wake up call to those players.

    The current gear up method once you reach 90 is just terrible, especially for many of us who enjoyed doing 5 mans with friends or guildies in the past to gear up or just simply to have a good time. Do I understand the reasoning why they aren't making new dungeons? Of course, but I don't agree with the reasoning at all, or even how Blizzard reached the state of the gear tiers we have now. Just like I don't agree with all of the daily nonsense we have.

    What it really comes down to is that many of us aren't enjoying the 'new direction' of the game. Oh there's stuff to do all right, but many of us aren't finding it enjoyable. If you aren't enjoying the game and don't hate yourself, I recommend you just cancel your sub. I'm glad I did a few months ago, and I wish I had done so sooner.
    Haven't done so yet, but I agree entirely with you on not enjoying this "new direction" at all, so that's probably the way it goes for me too.

    5-man dungeons / Heroics was a HUGE part of the appeal of the game to me, with that gone, I find myself asking what actually remains for me. Pvp has never really been my thing. I abhor the LFR scene. Daily rep grinds holds even less appeal. Currently, 5-man heroics, friends and a spot of roleplaying keeps me in the game, and with 5-man heroics gone...I'm just not sure if it's worth it anymore.
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  3. #1183
    Quote Originally Posted by Fagatronics View Post
    You have to look at it from Blizz's perspective:

    They can either make unique 5 mans that take extra development time to create fights, art, gear, lore, etc that are more accessible. Not to mention you could run them more often, and with friends exclusively, gearing you up faster and potentially unsub quicker.

    Or they could copy/paste a raid instance where mechanics are nerfed into the ground, you know nobody (or close to it) in the raid, you have less chances at gear, and have a lower droprate chance as well. This slows the gearing process and potentially increases the likelyhood for players to stay subbed.

    If Blizz wants to forget it's 8 year 5-man dungeon model in MoP for a chance to cut down on development and potentially make more money, why not?

    IMO: The new 90 gearing progression is such a poor decision I can't even...
    Well- this is how things are gonna be. Obviously BLizzard is not realising the importance of good 5 mans to keep the co-op in this game.

    Secondly - Do not forget that they added challenge modes that means they need to put much more effort into those dungeons cause 1% might do those challenges.

    I for one is not coming back to MOP cause there are so many bad decisions being made. Can't even see me buying another expansion considering some of the changes. The game is slipping away with every new thing Blizzard adds.

    If only we had good dungeons in GW2... Cause there is obvious a market now for a good strong 4-6 man dungeon game atm. Maybe SWTOR ?

  4. #1184
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    That's because you can use CC all you want in CMs but the only way to get gold is to, as you say, storm in and mash your AoE skills. You can't get gold if your spec has shitty AoE and you'll have a really hard time as melee in any case.
    Well yes, but in fact there is only one skill that you need to conquer CMG - BL/Hero, which is plain stupid design. In fact, we had to gear shammy alt of our Hpala just to start getting gold runs. And then, we had to gear another dd's shammy alt, so our Hpala could have her Transmog set also. I think it would be quite nice of Blizz if BL/Hero was forbidden to use in CMs and all gold runs were balanced not around pressing the magic +30% dps button.
    Anyway, back to the topic. The main idea of my message was not in CMG, but in us, players, destroying wow by mere our hands. I think, when the community started dividing itself into elitists and baddies, wow start dying. Remember that good old times of BC? We had a lot of specs that were totally bad for raids - Rets, cats, arms war, etc etc. Yet in that times our raid anyway had them playing in our ranks. That was good old "bring player, not the class". Nowadays the more content we have, the more divided the community gets, the more that good old statement just isn't working. You have to play Destro, you have to bring Mage, you can't even progress without Disc. That is what we get for stopping actual playing and having fun and starting to roll on best numbers and effectiveness. And Blizz, as every other effective company, tries to give its customers what they want.

  5. #1185
    The Lightbringer Yirrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fagatronics View Post
    Or they could copy/paste a raid instance where mechanics are nerfed into the ground, you know nobody (or close to it) in the raid, you have less chances at gear, and have a lower droprate chance as well. This slows the gearing process and potentially increases the likelyhood for players to stay subbed.
    Potentially or not, it has had the effect of making me reconsidering my subscription. That's only happened once before in over seven years of playtime, and I cannot believe that I am the only one sufficiently annoyed by this decision to consider unsubscribing, something that I never did when I geared up more quickly in TBC, Wrath and Cata...
    All true wealth is biological. -Lois McMaster Bujold

    Attention: This is weather. This is climate. Learn the difference between the two before you use weather to "disprove climate change".

  6. #1186
    Quote Originally Posted by Yirrah View Post
    Haven't done so yet, but I agree entirely with you on not enjoying this "new direction" at all, so that's probably the way it goes for me too.

    5-man dungeons / Heroics was a HUGE part of the appeal of the game to me, with that gone, I find myself asking what actually remains for me. Pvp has never really been my thing. I abhor the LFR scene. Daily rep grinds holds even less appeal. Currently, 5-man heroics, friends and a spot of roleplaying keeps me in the game, and with 5-man heroics gone...I'm just not sure if it's worth it anymore.
    Yes - I think BLizzard is not quite getting it that so many ppl that liked 5 mans simply hate LFR. Well... tbh... everyone probably hates LFR if not for the loot.

  7. #1187
    something ate my post, see blow
    Last edited by Incredibale; 2013-03-13 at 11:08 PM. Reason: do it

  8. #1188
    People and Blizz fall back on the difficulty excuse for the sub losses. I'm not buying it. There are too many other things that could've done it:

    + 1-60 content being ransacked and "streamlined" (read: dumb down, pop-cultured, linear) when there was no demand for it

    + Noncontinuous leveling zones which are traveled to via portals in faction capitals (too gamey, might as well have a zone select text menu)

    + 5 levels instead of 10. Does not feel like 10 levels of content squished into 5

    + First expansion with only one max level zone

    + Rehashing of content

    + Last two raid tiers were limited in content with DS being the lowest quality raid of all time

    + Linear questing from 80 onward

    + Neutered Dalaran with no similar hub replacing it, which means you will hardly ever see the other faction outside of launch window and pvp servers

    + Painful caged starting zones for goblins and worgen

    + Silly antagonists (twilight, twilight everywhere), there is only one threat in the expansion - old gods. Previous expansions and vanilla had multiple antagonists

    + Phasing, phasing everywhere

    + Stat inflation completely out of line with previous expansions, can't do quests in Hyjal/Vash before 80, an unfortunate first

    + Unreasonable ilvl requirements for cata dungeon queuing. Have to blow gold on AH or go through half of Hyjal to get into BRC or TotT. Getting into the lvl 85 instance trio requires AH investment or going halfway through Twilight Highlands

    + Incentives for 25 man are gone, shared lockouts

    + New BGs were old BGs with a new coat of paint

    + Only 3 raiding tiers. A first for WoW. BC had 4, LK had 4 (not counting RS), Vanilla had 5 if you count ZG.

    + Scrapped Abyssal Maw and WoTA raids. Well of Eternity could have been glorious as a raid.

    With all these problems I don't see hard dungeons being the culprit, whatever Blizz might tell you.

  9. #1189
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    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    Oh, come on. It is totally not Blizzard's fault.
    Blizzard made a good, hard and challenging dungeons in the start of Cata, and what they get? A shitstorm with sub losses because it looks like people don't want to CC and challenge play, they want to storm in pack of mobs, press aoe skills and get phat lootz.
    It is absolutely Blizzard's fault. The dungeons at the start of Cata were not "good, hard, and challenging". They may have been hard, particularly for undergeared toons right at release, and/or players who had only experienced Wrath heroics with ICC-5man gear, but that was it. Re-introducing CC does not equal challenging. The only "challenge" was whether LFD fed you players who remembered how to play their class from BC. If it didn't, and you didn't have a very good healer, then the Cata-start instances would be long and miserable. If it did, then they were merely miserably long. A dungeon where the hardest fight is not the boss, but fighting boredom as you proceed down a single very long hallway filled with endless waves of trash packs isn't good or challenging, just tiresome.


    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    Blizzard made a good and easy dungeons in the end of Cata, and what they get? A shitstorm because it looks like that people suddenly don't want easy peasy aoe filled dungeons with phat loots, they suddenly want challenge now, they find easy boring and don't want to do boring stuff.
    Blizzard made easy peasy dungeons AND challenge modes in MoP, and what they get? A shitstorm, oh yea. Suddenly those who are the core players for easy peasy dungeons want challenge modes and its sets, but are enable to have them because of lack of skill to get; and players who have the skill for challenge modes are bored of the stuff just as they are bored in Brawlers guild and all other "hard" stuff.
    While they were definitely "easy" the three end-cata instances certainly weren't "good". The End Time was three recycled rooms (out of a possible five) that you teleport between, before casually wrapping up a plot-arc that had been around since BC. The Hour of Twilight was again three completely recycled settings, except this time you ride between them. The Well of Eternity was the only one with decent background, and that was because it was originally supposed to be a raid before Blizz gave up and turned it into a 5-man. All three were laughably short, lacked complexity, and were so 'easy' they were basically pointless. Blizz could have just had you press a button and then delivered random loot in the mail an hour later - it would have been just as challenging.

    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    So it is a very logic decision just not to do dungeons at all, looks like noone likes them anyway, no difference how hard or easy they are.
    So, whenever it comes to QQ - cry more, on every topic here and there, and in a few years all you'll have in wow will be dailies and nothing else.
    In other words, Blizz is doing to dungeons what they already did to talent trees: spend an expansion or two doing an exceptionally lousy job implementing them, then claim, "OMG, no one likes dungeons anymore, guess we'd better get rid of them". They gave us dull, uncomplicated, hallways full of a dull, unexciting selection of mobs, on top of poor choices in how to implement gearing up and it's our fault we didn't like the dungeons.

  10. #1190
    no more dungeons. great. next xpac we wont have any, at this rate. look at how many dungeons BC had.

    but you know what we WILL get?

    dailies.

    lots, and lots of dailies.

    -_-

  11. #1191
    Banned JhanZ's Avatar
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    If people think not having new dungeons is acceptable after the first batch initially with an expansion, I agree with them.

    If people think having 9 dungeons through an entire expansion is acceptable, I completely disagree with them.

  12. #1192
    LFR is the new 5-player dungeon. I can Valor cap by doing all the LFR wings + dailies every day + a few boss kills in Normal raids without having to do a single Heroic dungeon.

    If you don't raid Normal/Heroic modes, you can still do all the LFR wings + dailies every day (just the Isle of Thunder dailies) and then do like 2 Heroics and you're capped. Only having to do 2 Heroic dungeons a week means that we really don't need any more of them because we'll barely do them.

    So really, LFR has unofficially replaced dungeons.

    Also, post #666!
    Last edited by Maester; 2013-03-14 at 05:23 AM.

  13. #1193
    We all have to do dungeons ones in a while / vp cap / achievemens / gearing progress / helping friends / wasting time - etc etc etc. This is an aspect of PvE.
    There is lore / storys to be told and to be introduced to people. PvE shoudnt be only about raiding and spending time doing stuff like a brainless zombie in LFR just because we can. ( When a tank dies in LFR / or a healer / or a dps - you just keep going, the hell dude if done some boss's with only a hand full of people in a 25 man LFR. try to do that in a dungeon. dungeons are actauly more challenging when it scales to gear then these silly raids )

    doing these same dungeons for many hears, just does not cut it. scenarios suck btw, doesnt give me the same feeling as a dungeon.

    give new dungeons pls!

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-14 at 06:19 AM ----------

    LFR ones a week / rest of the week, World of dailycraft. Boooooooooooooooooring

  14. #1194
    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    but it already does. Since 5.2 gear in LFR is dropping like rain, on top of that you can run it and have a shot on drop as many time as you want via bonus roll.
    Don't get me wrong I'm not super against it (I think you mean no lockout in LFR), but I just think it's not necessary because it would burn people much faster.
    no it's not dropping like rain, it's all down to your personal luck if you get a drop and if that drop is what you need, because don't forget that the lfr loot system can give you the same piece that you don't need at all over and over. I think that the current system will burn peoples more than dungeon, think about it, toes and how many peoples farm the 2 last boss for weapon.
    How about we let the parenting of kids to... their parents? No, seriously, World of Warcraft is a videogame. Gaming it's supposed to be a fun activity (if you have that fun through challenges, social interactions, etc is completely up to you). Not some kind of "School of Hard Knocks about the Real World".

  15. #1195
    Not sure how i feel about it. Would it be fun if they added more 5-man, probaly, but could also be badly made. Is there a need for them? to some degree it goes both ways. I feel like there is a long way to go from full HC-dungeon gear, to the newer raids so i think they should add more, but thye wont
    (i am 20 and dyslexic so yes i suck at spelling)

  16. #1196
    Herald of the Titans SL1200's Avatar
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    Blizzard is breaking the wow paradigm in all the wrong ways. Not really happy about anything I'm hearing from blizzard lately concerning their future plans for wow.

  17. #1197
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    They'll continue to make useless one-time scenarios, tho. Atleast the VP reward could be the same as doing dungeons.
    why? scenario is alrdy has more vp per hour then dungeons. for dps. so tell me why does it need more vp?

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-14 at 11:03 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinachsandwich View Post
    Blizzard is breaking the wow paradigm in all the wrong ways. Not really happy about anything I'm hearing from blizzard lately concerning their future plans for wow.
    then unsub and tell them why your leaving. and just leave?

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-14 at 11:08 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ragemv View Post
    Not sure how i feel about it. Would it be fun if they added more 5-man, probaly, but could also be badly made. Is there a need for them? to some degree it goes both ways. I feel like there is a long way to go from full HC-dungeon gear, to the newer raids so i think they should add more, but thye wont
    and thats what they wanted. they want away from the ding 90. next weeks i'm rdy to raid model.

  18. #1198
    Scenarios are quite good for questing and storytelling in dynamic way in questing.
    But they are really bad in group play. This GW2-like zergfest shit is boring, and having to not play the role I want is also boring.
    I think that new dungeons will be released somewhere around 5.4, its just a mere speculations so Blizz can understand and see what's on people's minds nowadays.

  19. #1199
    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    Scenarios are quite good for questing and storytelling in dynamic way in questing.
    But they are really bad in group play. This GW2-like zergfest shit is boring, and having to not play the role I want is also boring.
    I think that new dungeons will be released somewhere around 5.4, its just a mere speculations so Blizz can understand and see what's on people's minds nowadays.
    say what? i got no problem joining in as a healer or tank.

  20. #1200
    Quote Originally Posted by loki504 View Post
    why? scenario is alrdy has more vp per hour then dungeons. for dps. so tell me why does it need more vp?

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-14 at 11:03 AM ----------



    then unsub and tell them why your leaving. and just leave?

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-14 at 11:08 AM ----------



    and thats what they wanted. they want away from the ding 90. next weeks i'm rdy to raid model.
    Maybe you missed the premise of this forum, but it's a WoW discussion forum. He's using it for what it's intended for. Don't like reading that kinda stuff? Block mmo-champion.com from your browser.

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