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  1. #1201
    Quote Originally Posted by Crym View Post
    On one hand I understand their decision. 5 mans were meant (and most people treated them) for groups of players to just get together and do something minor for story and a little gear. Scenarios are pretty much the same except that there's less role requirements, meaning it's faster for a majority of their player-base to find a group for their small group content.

    As someone who loves the healing role in MMOs, I'm a bit disappointed. GW is a series where you can group up with anyone and do any role well enough to make it through a lot of the group content and people love it. I'm not one of those people. I like that members in the trinity system depend on one another for things they themselves cannot do. It creates stronger connections then when everyone's playing like a single player game, together.
    Yes, and this is another thing that disturbs me. I have been a healer since always, and Blizzard has made this expansion almost exclusively for DPSers.

    I get it, they are the mayority, but come on, its stupid that you cant do the Brawlers guild for example if you are not in a DPS spec, or scenarios, or that the dailies are so much slower for healers than for DPSers, or farming or anything. Hell, even if i go to the farm for grow freaking crops its better if i go as dpsers since there is a high chance that several enemies spawn there...

    And now they tell me that one of the few aspects of the game where my spec was usefull wont be developed...

  2. #1202
    I've seen on some sites that he is quoted as saying no more 5-man dungeons at all, ever again in WOW. Is this just a translation error? Because if it is true, I'm sure that we will hear the so-called "hardcore" anti casual crowd start to celebrate.

  3. #1203
    Quote Originally Posted by Fagatronics View Post
    You have to look at it from Blizz's perspective:

    They can either make unique 5 mans that take extra development time to create fights, art, gear, lore, etc that are more accessible. Not to mention you could run them more often, and with friends exclusively, gearing you up faster and potentially unsub quicker.

    Or they could copy/paste a raid instance where mechanics are nerfed into the ground, you know nobody (or close to it) in the raid, you have less chances at gear, and have a lower droprate chance as well. This slows the gearing process and potentially increases the likelyhood for players to stay subbed.

    If Blizz wants to forget it's 8 year 5-man dungeon model in MoP for a chance to cut down on development and potentially make more money, why not?

    IMO: The new 90 gearing progression is such a poor decision I can't even...
    Or they can stop trying to milk the most amount of money with the least amount of effort and do both. A lot of smaller companies develop content faster than Blizzard.... just because they are not as greedy as Blizzard is.

    The sad part is when players defend Blizzard while Blizzard does less from them so they can earn more.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-14 at 02:08 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    Well- this is how things are gonna be. Obviously BLizzard is not realising the importance of good 5 mans to keep the co-op in this game.

    Secondly - Do not forget that they added challenge modes that means they need to put much more effort into those dungeons cause 1% might do those challenges.

    I for one is not coming back to MOP cause there are so many bad decisions being made. Can't even see me buying another expansion considering some of the changes. The game is slipping away with every new thing Blizzard adds.

    If only we had good dungeons in GW2... Cause there is obvious a market now for a good strong 4-6 man dungeon game atm. Maybe SWTOR ?
    Well, Neverwinter comes from the RPG world, so they maybe understand the importance of dungeons.

    Blizzard keeps doing the same mistakes over and over. TBC and Wrath were succesful because they had content for everyone, you like dungeons and group content? You have it in both, you want solo content? You had it in both.

    Cata ignored one of those in favor of the other and failed miserabkly. MoP is doing the exact same thing, its ignoring one group to favor the other group, and will fail as Cata did.

    Blizzard needs to wake up and stop slacking.

  4. #1204
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    I feared as much when they said that additional 5-mans don't fit the current raiding model.
    Yeah, it is quite dissapointing. As well as annoying, since they are essentially stepping in the same trap they seem to traditionally step in during almost the entirety of the game's existence: fosucing on one aspect of the game in PVE while ignoring or short-changing the rest.

    In the past it has been in periods of time: mostly about questing and some dungeon-running, or dungeon-running and some questing, or LFR-running and some dungeon-running, or daily-questing and LFR-running, etc.

    It has never been a case where you could choose between the various aspects of end-game PVE, while they were all well represented... Which leaves a great question mark as to why. Especially since it seems to dissapoint a lot of people most of the time.

    Yes, you can practically gather valour points to the cap each week through LFR and some scenarios or dailies. But that's not the point. Practicality is just the behind-the-scenes aspect of the game, the mechanical part, that should be taken care of without the players even noticing. In a great game, you would cap valour points each week doing things for fun, and you wouldn't even care about the cap, because you would know that you would reach it anyway; instead you would care about having fun, just that.

    Now the game is far from such a point, quite the contrary actually: people seem to complain all the time about what they "have" to do instead of playing and having a good time; but, it doesn't hurt to try and alleviate those pains" somewhat. And one of those ways is to offer some variety. There are people that like to run group-dungeons for whatever they are after, more than any other activity. They should have some content to play with just as everyone else. Content that will get refreshed from time to time. Those dungeons don't have to offer a complete loot table, or even half of one. Just a few more dungeons for some variety.

    What is more, they could introduce some "proper" group-dungeons, like Blackrock Depths: huge dungeons, with content of varying difficulty, that will require some quite well-coordinated groups, and quite some time to finish, if you can finish them; rewarding the effort to go through them with some exceptionally good items and crafting recipes, as well as mats, gold, valour points. This can help players seek to group-up with others, work together in small groups, get better at playing, become more patient, and not get forced to participate in raiding if they don't want to. Group-dungeons are not just meant to be some 10-minute long rofl-stomp-fests. They can become quite an interesting aspect of the game. It just takes some creativity and to break free of whatever it is that the developer have in mind that keeps them focused on only one thing most of the time, while neglecting other aspects of the game.

  5. #1205
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    Or they can stop trying to milk the most amount of money with the least amount of effort and do both. A lot of smaller companies develop content faster than Blizzard.... just because they are not as greedy as Blizzard is.
    Like what company?
    And no, they don't "develop contest faster because they aren't greedy".
    The sad part is when players defend Blizzard while Blizzard does less from them so they can earn more.
    oooooor.
    Players come to MMO-C, see other users making statements that are easily proved wrong and call them out on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    Yes, and this is another thing that disturbs me. I have been a healer since always, and Blizzard has made this expansion almost exclusively for DPSers.

    I get it, they are the mayority, but come on, its stupid that you cant do the Brawlers guild for example if you are not in a DPS spec, or scenarios, or that the dailies are so much slower for healers than for DPSers, or farming or anything. Hell, even if i go to the farm for grow freaking crops its better if i go as dpsers since there is a high chance that several enemies spawn there...

    And now they tell me that one of the few aspects of the game where my spec was usefull wont be developed...
    Ha, fully agree on that!
    I have been tank/holy like forever.. But I went DPS out of pure frustration.
    Brawler? Nope.
    Dailies? SLOOOOOOW, I wouldn't even do them if I didn't have a dps-friend to do them with me.
    Scenario's? Nerfing the group.
    Solo-dungeons? Hope you don't pull anything, because you are screwed.

  6. #1206
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Like what company?
    And no, they don't "develop contest faster because they aren't greedy".
    Like many companies that since they are not in the top, they need to produce more tog et money and cant cash in their past success, for example Trion.

  7. #1207
    The Lightbringer shise's Avatar
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    It's quite clever, a way to gain players. Now the current won't leave for such lesser thing, well maybe a few of them, but when they release new dungeons those will really be as new as never before, making a lot of players return.

    Tbh, as long as they work out the lore not to end up as bad as it did in Cata, i'm fine.

  8. #1208
    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    If only we had good dungeons in GW2... Cause there is obvious a market now for a good strong 4-6 man dungeon game atm. Maybe SWTOR ?
    I can speak to SWTOR. It's a capable MMO that has come a long way since launch. The 4-man dungeons are fun, but average. If you switch for small-group content, however, please be aware that they are in sort of a pre-expansion lull right now. The wait in group finder for healers and DPS can be quite long, since many players are waiting on the expansion. The F2P restrictions, can be a little restrictive too, more so than most games. Otherwise, the populations are good on the remaining servers, and the people are generally friendly. They are also offering double XP for the next few weekends, so it would be easy to catch up.

  9. #1209
    I think focusing on the raids and new zones is better anyway

  10. #1210
    Banned Superman-BladesEdge's Avatar
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    If they focused on more 5 man content, it would detract from the dailies and raid content. Plus, the more dungeons you have, the more dungeon heroes you'll get clamoring for rep tabards again.

  11. #1211
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    If they could keep adding heroic dungeons as a slower but more reliable way to gear up next to LFR it would be great. It's how it worked in tbc and wotlk and it's how it was successful. Why they ever moved away from the formula I have no clue.

    First tier of heroic dungeons provides emblems/badges that can be used on ilvl 476-489 gear.
    Second tier of heroic dungeons provides emblems/badges that be used on ilvl 489-504 gear.
    Final bosses of heroic dungeons drop gear equivalent to the badge rewards from that tier.
    Challenge modes provide gear equivalent to normal mode raids.

    Voila, I just solved the entire issue of gearing up, retardedness of LFR, ACTUAL CHOICES in gear progression in under a minute. And with very little extra work to go with it ESPECIALLY if they stop forcing dailies/scenarios at the expense of 5-mans.

    And to top it all off I gave players an incentive to actually become better at the game.
    I would play that game.

    I don't have an hour or two to do LFR/quests during the week. I can put in a half hour and tank/heal a 5-man though.

  12. #1212
    My mage just dinged 90 today. How long you think took me to enter LFR? - exactly 4 hours 20 minutes.
    3 dungeons
    2 scenarios
    Sha kill
    Elegon kill
    ring for jp
    archeology trinket
    and 3 cheap peaces of 458 ilvl pvp gear from AH.

  13. #1213
    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    My mage just dinged 90 today. How long you think took me to enter LFR? - exactly 4 hours 20 minutes.
    Great, come back here after you have entered 5.2 LFR. Because no one complained about the difficulty of entering 5.0 LFR.

  14. #1214
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Great, come back here after you have entered 5.2 LFR. Because no one complained about the difficulty of entering 5.0 LFR.
    but that's how raiding works, you should know patience is a virtue in that enviroment. Beside who prioritise that? It's just an alt, I don't really feel a difference between doing T14 over T15 LFR, - you go there, you smack few bosses on the head, win some loot or not, end of story. What matters is your main and normal/heroic raiding.

  15. #1215
    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    but that's how raiding works, you should know patience is a virtue in that enviroment. Beside who prioritise that? It's just an alt, I don't really feel a difference between doing T14 over T15 LFR, - you go there, you smack few bosses on the head, win some loot or not, end of story. What matters is your main and normal/heroic raiding.
    Gearing up from raiding was never this random.

  16. #1216
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrossNgen View Post
    Gearing up from raiding was never this random.
    With the increased dropchance and the raining of coins I would argue that it has never been less random

  17. #1217
    The Lightbringer Yirrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    With the increased dropchance and the raining of coins I would argue that it has never been less random
    With the option of gearing up outside of LFR effectively gone, I would argue that it has never been less fun at least.
    All true wealth is biological. -Lois McMaster Bujold

    Attention: This is weather. This is climate. Learn the difference between the two before you use weather to "disprove climate change".

  18. #1218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yirrah View Post
    With the option of gearing up outside of LFR effectively gone, I would argue that it has never been less fun at least.
    You still have valor and the auction-house?
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Players that are coming back to the game shouldn't be able to jump right in to end game content with players that have been playing for several months, as some catch up will be required.
    After ICC-dungeons and DS-dungeons I can only agree to that.
    It was terrible then, but we hardly had a choice.
    But now with LFR there is no reason to skip everything

  19. #1219
    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    but that's how raiding works.
    But that's not how catch up works.

  20. #1220
    the fact that they think scenarios and daily quests is the future and new 5 mans isnt, just shows the way the game is headed. Hardly anyone like scenarios. And now that we have done 5 mans for 9 fucking years only to be told "fuck your 5 man group. drop 2 of your friends and do our awesome scenarios insted" aint working out yo.

    5 mans are fun. scenarios aint. Thank god we get 3 new mmo's coming out in the future

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