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  1. #1321
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercaust View Post
    You can definitely expect a change in the way endgame content is handled with respect to scenarios and dungeons, but I doubt that Blizzard will totally drop 5-mans. What would have been the purpose of developing LFG?
    I don't think they would ever completely get rid of dungeons. But I do think they are leaning more towards it being a niche activity now compared to when it was a necessary step in PVE progression. If that is their intent for dungeons, I personally disagree with that philosophy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    You're full of shit honey.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    You should have no expectations for the next expansion IMO...

  2. #1322
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    I am not comparing dungeons to raids, as we always had raids.

    I am comparing dungeons to dailies and scenarios, which are the cheap content Blizzard is trying to give us in the place of dungeons.

    But dont fool yourself, if they get their objective of making people accept the low quality dailies and scenarios instead of dungeons, they will try to give players cheaper content instead of raids in the future.
    They haven't given us anything in place of dungeons. We have dungeons and scenarios. You're mad at blizzard for not appealing to you just this once. What about the people that like scenarios?

    You seem unable to fathom the idea that anyone would like dailies or scenarios over dungeons.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-03 at 01:13 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fagatronics View Post
    I don't think they would ever completely get rid of dungeons. But I do think they are leaning more towards it being a niche activity now compared to when it was a necessary step in PVE progression. If that is their intent for dungeons, I personally disagree with that philosophy.
    It's still a necessary step for pve progression.

  3. #1323
    Bloodsail Admiral Invictus9001's Avatar
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    Just my 2 cents.. I think Blizzard is trying to avoid an instant replay of what happened with the final 5-man dungeons in Cata. The gear in them was significantly better (stats and item level) than the previous 5-mans in the expansion.. and it allowed one to vault upward in iLevel by simply finding a group that was competent enough to complete the dungeon so you'd get quest rewards from the intro quests each dungeon had.. much less actually winning a drop/roll of actual loot from bosses. I also feel this is part of why Blizzard removed the "item upgrade" function for 5.2, given they figured players could pool Valor, upgrade and suddenly become closer to outgearing earlier dungeons in the expansion/potentially grant 'unfair' advantages with regards to PVP gear. The points aren't directly related, but similar enough to merit mention IMO.

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  4. #1324
    Quote Originally Posted by Invictus9001 View Post
    Just my 2 cents.. I think Blizzard is trying to avoid an instant replay of what happened with the final 5-man dungeons in Cata. The gear in them was significantly better (stats and item level) than the previous 5-mans in the expansion.. and it allowed one to vault upward in iLevel by simply finding a group that was competent enough to complete the dungeon so you'd get quest rewards from the intro quests each dungeon had.. much less actually winning a drop/roll of actual loot from bosses. I also feel this is part of why Blizzard removed the "item upgrade" function for 5.2, given they figured players could pool Valor, upgrade and suddenly become closer to outgearing earlier dungeons in the expansion/potentially grant 'unfair' advantages with regards to PVP gear. The points aren't directly related, but similar enough to merit mention IMO.
    Your viewpoint on the item upgrades feature is incorrect because the feature is coming back in 5.3, but cheaper upgrades.

  5. #1325
    Quote Originally Posted by SherbertLand View Post
    They haven't given us anything in place of dungeons. We have dungeons and scenarios. You're mad at blizzard for not appealing to you just this once. What about the people that like scenarios?

    You seem unable to fathom the idea that anyone would like dailies or scenarios over dungeons.
    No i'm not.

    I am not asking Blizzard to stop making dailies or scenarios. I am asking not to stop making dungeons because of them, see the difference?.

    I like dungeons, i want them to keep doing dungeons. If somebody else wants scenarios, good for them, you wont see me saying they shouldnt make more of ANY content.

    Dailies and sceanrios ARE cheaper lower quality content though.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-03 at 03:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Invictus9001 View Post
    Just my 2 cents.. I think Blizzard is trying to avoid an instant replay of what happened with the final 5-man dungeons in Cata. The gear in them was significantly better (stats and item level) than the previous 5-mans in the expansion.. and it allowed one to vault upward in iLevel by simply finding a group that was competent enough to complete the dungeon so you'd get quest rewards from the intro quests each dungeon had.. much less actually winning a drop/roll of actual loot from bosses. I also feel this is part of why Blizzard removed the "item upgrade" function for 5.2, given they figured players could pool Valor, upgrade and suddenly become closer to outgearing earlier dungeons in the expansion/potentially grant 'unfair' advantages with regards to PVP gear. The points aren't directly related, but similar enough to merit mention IMO.
    The problem with cataclysm were NOT catch up dungeons, it was the fact that cataclysm had nothing else but dungeons and raids.

    We had catch up dungeons in every single one of Wrath content patches except 3.1. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.

    And Wrath also had more dungeons AND one more raid than both Cata and what MoP will have.

    So yous ee, catch up dungeons were never a problem.

  6. #1326
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    No i'm not.

    I am not asking Blizzard to stop making dailies or scenarios. I am asking not to stop making dungeons because of them, see the difference?.

    I like dungeons, i want them to keep doing dungeons. If somebody else wants scenarios, good for them, you wont see me saying they shouldnt make more of ANY content.

    Dailies and sceanrios ARE cheaper lower quality content though.
    World of Warcraft doesn't have endless developers, it has around 75. They can't afford to make 10 new scenarios, 5 new dungeons, and a daily hub every single patch. New heroics wouldn't even be successful unless they offered raid gear. Most people only run heroics to get gear. You're actually the only person I know that enjoys running them over and over. Weeks on end.

    Less resources spent on content does not mean it's low quality. Have you seen the Isle of Thunder? It's pretty amazing. I'm sorry you don't like scenarios or dailies, but World of Warcraft doesn't have an endless stream of developers. Heroics simply take too long to develop for the short term grind that they end up being. Dailies will be current content the entire expansion, for raiders anyway.
    Last edited by SherbertLand; 2013-04-03 at 06:25 PM.

  7. #1327
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    I am not comparing dungeons to raids, as we always had raids.

    I am comparing dungeons to dailies and scenarios, which are the cheap content Blizzard is trying to give us in the place of dungeons.

    But dont fool yourself, if they get their objective of making people accept the low quality dailies and scenarios instead of dungeons, they will try to give players cheaper content instead of raids in the future.
    But this is what you SHOULD be comparing it to content should be seen as a WHOLE not just focusing on what you want to to try and make your point.

    They have stated that LFR has allowed them to produce larger quality raids in a quicker time scale.

    So if the choice was...

    3 5 Mans, 8 Man Boss Raid and nothing else for 10 months (aka 4.3)

    New Daily Hub (Isle), 12 (13) Boss Raid, Scenarios and another minor patch adding more scenarios, dailies, brawlers guild bosses + more in 2 months and another Raid in 6 months (aka 5.2)

    In my opinion there is no contest.

    Would I love more 5 mans ofc I would (as long as they don't rain raid quality epics).

    Buy we can't have everything right?

    When will it stop?

    All I hear from you is /cry "I want everything and I want it NOW!"
    Last edited by Quilzar; 2013-04-03 at 06:26 PM.

  8. #1328
    Bloodsail Admiral Invictus9001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SherbertLand View Post
    Your viewpoint on the item upgrades feature is incorrect because the feature is coming back in 5.3, but cheaper upgrades.
    I feel I'm correct in terms of 5.2 - even if Blizzard will never own up to it. I know the feature returns in 5.3, but also note that the upgrades will only apply to a couple groups of PVP gear and were stated as not being part of the longterm view for PVP gear overall.. whereas PVE it looks to be returning for an extended stay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    So yous ee, catch up dungeons were never a problem.
    There have been catchup dungeons, and that wasn't declared as if it were something new. I just think Blizzard woke up and smelled the virtual coffee when the final 5-mans in Cata came through.
    Last edited by Invictus9001; 2013-04-03 at 06:27 PM.

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  9. #1329
    Quote Originally Posted by Invictus9001 View Post
    I feel I'm correct in terms of 5.2 - even if Blizzard will never own up to it. I know the feature returns in 5.3, but also note that the upgrades will only apply to a couple groups of PVP gear and were stated as not being part of the longterm view for PVP gear overall.. whereas PVE it looks to be returning for an extended stay.
    The item level difference matters more in pvp, so that's understandable. But you can't really sit there and say Blizzard is against item upgrades when they're bringing it back in a cheaper form.

  10. #1330
    Bloodsail Admiral Invictus9001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SherbertLand View Post
    The item level difference matters more in pvp, so that's understandable. But you can't really sit there and say Blizzard is against item upgrades when they're bringing it back in a cheaper form.
    It's more about them realizing that it offered a potential shortcut AFTER the fact of releasing it in the first place. (Que intern saying, 'Oops!') If they were entirely against the notion of it in total, of bloody course they'd never bring it back.

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  11. #1331
    If they're going to be replacing dungeons for later patches with dailies and scenarios I think they should at least release many, many more dungeons at the start of an expansion. The number of dungeons they gave us for MoP is a little ridiculous. Mostly for people who are leveling. They tell us that we have options while leveling... questing, dungeons and PvP for the most part. Yet we only have what... 3 or 4 dungeons that we can do from 85-90? That's a little ridiculous if you ask me.

    I loved having a bunch of dungeons I could run while leveling, as a change of scenery while questing. Especially when I unlocked new ones every level. The way it was this time around though was just those same few dungeons, over and over and over again. I liked having new dungeons thrown into the mix with every big content patch. I fucking loved the 3 ICC dungeons back in Wrath and even ZA and ZG during Cata were awesome, I still enjoy going back to those places even today. I thought dungeons were a great way of introducing the story of what was going on in the current patch. Sure, scenarios do the same thing but I hardly consider scenarios as content. The way things are now, scenarios are a boring means of seeing content that we have for the most part already seen. You get grouped with 2 other random people and faceroll through a bunch of trash. I personally haven't done a single scenario that I've even half enjoyed.

    I don't know... it just seems stupid to me to stop releasing dungeons when they've been such a big part of the game for so long. If there's not going to be any more of them in this expansion I just hope that they'll at least release some more the next expansion.

  12. #1332
    Quote Originally Posted by Ifeanychukwu View Post
    Yet we only have what... 3 or 4 dungeons that we can do from 85-90? That's a little ridiculous if you ask me.
    This to me was the most disappointing thing in MoP.

    I would of liked all the new 5 mans to be available while leveling for sure, again I know we can't have everything, but if I was able to change one thing in MoP it would be that!

  13. #1333
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarFalcon1 View Post
    This is what the "easy" 5 mans have lead to. They are merely a stepping stone. Back in Vanilla and TBC Dungeons were pretty much end game for "Average/Casual" players. They were hard, challenging, and often times long. I was a pretty average player, and I was fine just running 5 mans, because they were fun and I found them challenging.
    I ran heroic 5 mans almost daily in BC with people no more geared than we could get in Karazhan and they were pretty easy. Ran Mech with a warlock in Black Temple gear and he asked us to stand by while he soloed quite a few of the trash groups just to make it more interesting.

    The main reason instances seem so much easier now is because they've incentivized 5 mans for raiders, made it easier for more players to BE raiders, and put a tool in where they're more likely to run with strangers. The casuals who used to be running dungeons with other casual players in content appropriate gear are now running with at least first tier level raid gear and with players who are up to a couple tiers into the expansion.

    Cataclysm had the most challenging 5 mans I've ever run. Even with gear being more available, groups wiped because the mechanics were designed to be punishing instead of just a gear check. I didn't play at the end of the expansion and I'm sure instances like Grim Batol that made people leave when they found out that's what they were given got much easier toward the end of the expansion, but for a while there I would only run that place with guildies because the random players kept getting in the 1-2 shot mechanics and wiping over and over.

  14. #1334
    I wonder if 4.3 would have been a better patch if, instead of dungeons, the three 5 mans were folded into the Dragon Soul raid.

    Make two of the echos into raid fights, third boss is Murazond. Next boss is Azshara, followed by Mannoroth. Then we get to Wyrmrest, with Bennedictus as a raid boss, and then have the rest of the raid play out.

    As for MoP, considering we're in the age of 5 level expansions I don't have a problem with the number of dungeons. You pretty much always have more than one you can run at any level except maybe 85, and once you hit level cap the heroics are only one step of the gearing process instead of a constant catch up mechanic. So releasing massive amounts of them is silly.
    Last edited by Malzra; 2013-04-03 at 07:23 PM.

  15. #1335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    I wonder if 4.3 would have been a better patch if, instead of dungeons, the three 5 mans were folded into the Dragon Soul raid.

    Make two of the echos into raid fights, third boss is Murazond. Next boss is Azshara, followed by Mannoroth. Then we get to Wyrmrest, with Bennedictus as a raid boss, and then have the rest of the raid play out.

    As for MoP, considering we're in the age of 5 level expansions I don't have a problem with the number of dungeons. You pretty much always have more than one you can run at any level except maybe 85, and once you hit level cap the heroics are only one step of the gearing process instead of a constant catch up mechanic. So releasing massive amounts of them is silly.
    Thematic-wise it wouldn't fit. They could've spend more development time on the raid though, but that would mean we would not have seen those 5-mans and I rather liked them.

  16. #1336
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    I wonder if 4.3 would have been a better patch if, instead of dungeons, the three 5 mans were folded into the Dragon Soul raid.

    Make two of the echos into raid fights, third boss is Murazond. Next boss is Azshara, followed by Mannoroth. Then we get to Wyrmrest, with Bennedictus as a raid boss, and then have the rest of the raid play out.

    As for MoP, considering we're in the age of 5 level expansions I don't have a problem with the number of dungeons. You pretty much always have more than one you can run at any level except maybe 85, and once you hit level cap the heroics are only one step of the gearing process instead of a constant catch up mechanic. So releasing massive amounts of them is silly.
    Wait, how does Azshara and and Mannoroth(deceased) fit into Dragon Soul? Did you forget the part where the 4.3 heroics were in the past/future?

  17. #1337
    I duno, Scenarios seem like a better way to tell a story than 5 mans do. I mean, you usually interact with NPCs more, and need to do more than kill.

    I approve of this. With Scenarios, there will most likely not be another Battle for the Undercity type quest. Instead, there going to be incorporated into Scenarios, which is a plus seeing as how at the end of the day the main purpose of them is gear/valor.

  18. #1338
    Banned Korgoth's Avatar
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    I believe 100% that they wont ever do new 5 players in a non first expansion patch. They can satisfy the low end pve players with LFR now. They don't need to.

  19. #1339
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    I believe 100% that they wont ever do new 5 players in a non first expansion patch. They can satisfy the low end pve players with LFR now. They don't need to.
    LFR can only be run once a week. 5-mans can be run multiple times a day. Big difference. LFR will never be able to replace 5-mans unless they change the lock out period....which could happen.....

  20. #1340
    Quote Originally Posted by SherbertLand View Post
    Wait, how does Azshara and and Mannoroth(deceased) fit into Dragon Soul? Did you forget the part where the 4.3 heroics were in the past/future?
    What I'm suggesting is that it might have been interesting to, instead of having them as seperate 5 mans, have them as wings of a raid in which the story progresses.

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