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  1. #1341
    Quote Originally Posted by Fagatronics View Post
    I don't think they would ever completely get rid of dungeons. But I do think they are leaning more towards it being a niche activity now compared to when it was a necessary step in PVE progression. If that is their intent for dungeons, I personally disagree with that philosophy.
    Honestly I think that would be great. That way, instead of churning out 8 or 9 crappy hallway dungeons they can focus on 2-3 difficult BRD type dungeons.

  2. #1342
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    What I'm suggesting is that it might have been interesting to, instead of having them as seperate 5 mans, have them as wings of a raid in which the story progresses.
    I don't see how they could pull that all together. Murozond is in the future, The echos are in the future. Deathwing is actually a corpse on Wyrmrest. And then we go to fight him in present time?

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-03 at 05:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercaust View Post
    Honestly I think that would be great. That way, instead of churning out 8 or 9 crappy hallway dungeons they can focus on 2-3 difficult BRD type dungeons.
    More people like short and quick instances.

  3. #1343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    I feared as much when they said that additional 5-mans don't fit the current instant gratification model.
    Fixed this for you OP.

    Sadly, I doubt we'll even get them next expansion.

    Looks to me like it's going to be Regular / Heroic Scenarios taking the place of Regular / Heroic 5's.
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  4. #1344
    Imo, Worst Idea ever.

  5. #1345
    Herald of the Titans Mighty Blue Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alturic View Post
    Just out of curiosity why exactly do people feel new 5-mans are needed?
    Because not everyone enjoys doing 3457385734589340583495835 dailies.
    Because not everyone enjoys Scenarios.
    Because not everyone enjoys Battlegrounds.
    Because not everyone can stop their daily routine to raid with 9/24 other people (random or with a guild).

    Dungeons used to fill a small time space I had during the day. Now I just Pet Battle and occasionally do a dungeon.

  6. #1346
    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    But this is what you SHOULD be comparing it to content should be seen as a WHOLE not just focusing on what you want to to try and make your point.

    They have stated that LFR has allowed them to produce larger quality raids in a quicker time scale.

    So if the choice was...

    3 5 Mans, 8 Man Boss Raid and nothing else for 10 months (aka 4.3)

    New Daily Hub (Isle), 12 (13) Boss Raid, Scenarios and another minor patch adding more scenarios, dailies, brawlers guild bosses + more in 2 months and another Raid in 6 months (aka 5.2)

    In my opinion there is no contest.

    Would I love more 5 mans ofc I would (as long as they don't rain raid quality epics).

    Buy we can't have everything right?

    When will it stop?

    All I hear from you is /cry "I want everything and I want it NOW!"

    So LFR allowed them to produce raids more quicly, but MoP will have one less raid tier than Wrath? (and Wrath had many single boss raids too that MoP doesnt have, as well as a huge amount of dungeons).

    The choice is not that one. They have ALREADY MADE more raids and dungeons than in this expansion, the new thing that is stopping them from making it now is SCENARIOS AND DAILIES, not raids...

    How can peolpe be fooled with this when we had raids and dungeons being produced at the same time for years in WoW? How can people buy the crap Blizzard is trying to sell when they say dailies and scenarios dont hold dungeons production?

    In my opinion there is no contest either, dungeons vs daileis+scenarios gets a sure win for dungeons.

    Raids and dungeons were always here in WoW, the new element stopping them from making more dungeons is that they want to launch new dailies and scenarios in each patch.

    And if you really think scenarios dont require the same team than dungeons when they are a group content, with art, encounter mechanics and objectives, then you are blinded...

    We cant have everything, but we can have quality dungeons AND raids being launched regularly, we know this because WE ALREADY HAD THAT IN WRATH, so dont try to say we cant have both.

    You can keep being blind to facts, but that's a choice you are making.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-04 at 08:47 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Invictus9001 View Post
    There have been catchup dungeons, and that wasn't declared as if it were something new. I just think Blizzard woke up and smelled the virtual coffee when the final 5-mans in Cata came through.
    Sorry it may be that its early in the morning or that english is not my native language, but i did not understand what you were trying to tell me here.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-04 at 08:51 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    I believe 100% that they wont ever do new 5 players in a non first expansion patch. They can satisfy the low end pve players with LFR now. They don't need to.
    And i belive 100% that when they see they are bleeding subs at a cataclysmic level in MoP they will see how big of a mistake they did with this and they will give us catch up dungeons in the enxt expansion.

    But as usual with Blizzard, it would be too late.

  7. #1347
    Quote Originally Posted by Crym View Post
    I ran heroic 5 mans almost daily in BC with people no more geared than we could get in Karazhan and they were pretty easy. Ran Mech with a warlock in Black Temple gear and he asked us to stand by while he soloed quite a few of the trash groups just to make it more interesting.

    Cataclysm had the most challenging 5 mans I've ever run. Even with gear being more available, groups wiped because the mechanics were designed to be punishing instead of just a gear check. I didn't play at the end of the expansion and I'm sure instances like Grim Batol that made people leave when they found out that's what they were given got much easier toward the end of the expansion, but for a while there I would only run that place with guildies because the random players kept getting in the 1-2 shot mechanics and wiping over and over.
    So you were using T4 Raid gear in BC Heroics, of course they would be easier at that point. I stated they were pretty much end game for people that did not raid, and because they would of had 0 raid gear it was indeed challenging.

    I actually really liked the early Cata dungeons. Some were really tough. I think the main reason those failed is because of the LFD system. Like you say it pairs random strangers together, with virtually no communication or general idea of an individuals skill level. They were indeed wipe fests with that type of group. However, they were quite fun when running with a group of friends. The game in the past was more about tight knit groups of players, where as now with LFR and LFD its about trying to include everyone but at the same time not creating any type of social bond or interaction.

  8. #1348
    I enjoy 5 man runs with my guildies that I can put together in 30 seconds. Just fun factor.

  9. #1349
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    So LFR allowed them to produce raids more quicly, but MoP will have one less raid tier than Wrath? (and Wrath had many single boss raids too that MoP doesnt have, as well as a huge amount of dungeons).

    The choice is not that one. They have ALREADY MADE more raids and dungeons than in this expansion, the new thing that is stopping them from making it now is SCENARIOS AND DAILIES, not raids...
    Your logic is flawed. It's true that Wrath had more tiers than MoP but you shouldn't focus so much on the numbers. Naxxramas was a lvl 80 version of the raid that's already been in the game for 4 years. I don't think I have to explain why ToC was crap too. So far, the quality of raids in MoP is way better than it was in Wrath.

  10. #1350
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercaust View Post
    but I doubt that Blizzard will totally drop 5-mans. What would have been the purpose of developing LFG?
    They gained technology to group players cross-realm by role and expanded it to LFR and in 5.3 appear to be expanding it to BGs.

  11. #1351
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Azjol-Nerub is a dungeon hub the same as The Nexus, Utgarde, and Frozen Halls as were Coilfang Reservoir, Hellfire Citadel, Auchindoun and Tempest Keep in TBC.
    Yes, and the point was that Blizzard did away with dungeon hubs in Cata and MoP. Instead of having a dungeon hub with 2-3 short dungeons that are pretty much visually identical, they have one longer dungeon instead.
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  12. #1352
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanochan View Post
    Because not everyone enjoys doing 3457385734589340583495835 dailies.
    Because not everyone enjoys Scenarios.
    Because not everyone enjoys Battlegrounds.
    Because not everyone can stop their daily routine to raid with 9/24 other people (random or with a guild).

    Dungeons used to fill a small time space I had during the day. Now I just Pet Battle and occasionally do a dungeon.
    Pretty much this, except that I hate petbattles.
    Dailies suck, so do scenarios
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  13. #1353
    Quote Originally Posted by Throrion View Post
    Yes, and the point was that Blizzard did away with dungeon hubs in Cata and MoP. Instead of having a dungeon hub with 2-3 short dungeons that are pretty much visually identical, they have one longer dungeon instead.
    No dungeon in MOP has more than four bosses, four in WOTLK had five bosses. The Halls of Lightning and The Culling of Stratholme feel bigger than any of the MOP dungeons with the exception of The Shado Pan Monastery I would go as far as to say that Temple of the Jade Serpent and Stormstout Brewery feel smaller than all but The Violet Hold in WOTLK. Whilst Blizzard might have done away with dungeon hubs they most certainly not given us longer dungeons.

  14. #1354
    Quote Originally Posted by SherbertLand View Post
    More people like short and quick instances.
    They can do scenarios, they're the new short and quick instances.

  15. #1355
    Personally I just don't do 5-mans after a few weeks anyway.

  16. #1356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranorack View Post
    Personally I just don't do 5-mans after a few weeks anyway.
    Same here. The 4.3 heroics I did once or twice just to experience them, otherwise, I rarely touched them. Pandaria introductory ones I did a lot more often, but I haven't done them in months now.
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  17. #1357
    Quote Originally Posted by Throrion View Post
    Yes, and the point was that Blizzard did away with dungeon hubs in Cata and MoP. Instead of having a dungeon hub with 2-3 short dungeons that are pretty much visually identical, they have one longer dungeon instead.
    Ahn'kahet was itself longer than any two MoP dungeons, and it was part of a hub. Really the only ones in Cata this applies to are HoO and Deadmines, the former of which is in close proximity to two other dungeons, and the latter of which is a remake. And I guess Grim Batol seemed long, but that's only because the third boss was a poorly tuned wipe-fest.
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  18. #1358
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    We cant have everything, but we can have quality dungeons AND raids being launched regularly, we know this because WE ALREADY HAD THAT IN WRATH, so dont try to say we cant have both.
    lol @ Wrath being the pinnacle of raiding, what total utter BS, you are the person blinded by nostalgia.

    Wrath had two yes count them TWO really good raids.

    Ulduar and ICC and we had ICC for 1 year, this is what you want?

    ToC? Really? You want more raids like ToC, this is what you want?

    Naxx 25? Can you imagine the outcry on these very forums if T17 was BWL10 + 25? Can you?

    No thanks I would rather have quality original raids over quantity and in a shorter timespan.

    So in summary your wish for MoP is

    1) To have a raid like ToC, probably the most hated raid in WoW history.

    2) A Reworked Raid just retuned lets say BWL.

    3) The last Tier to last at least 12 months.

    No thanks I would rather have an original raid and they deliver it quicker.

    If it means I get no new 5 mans then so be it.

    They are able to make bigger quality raids more consistently at the cost of 5 mans as LFR replaces gear catch up, if you can't see that then you are the blind one.

    I would love more 5 mans, I am realistic about it though and I don't think I can have everything.
    Last edited by Quilzar; 2013-04-05 at 11:27 PM.

  19. #1359
    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post

    No thanks I would rather have quality original raids over quantity and in a shorter timespan.
    Funny you say that when that was what Blizzard was preaching in Cata and look how that turned out. Anemic amount of content that started out middle of the line and went downhill fast in quality.

    I have not seen T15 though I would not call the first tier all that good with Terrace being quite the let down for the last raid of a tier and being the most simplistic and bland in terms of fight mechanics. I would rank T14 slightly above T11. So far MoP just feels like quantity over quality for me.
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2013-04-06 at 01:50 AM.

  20. #1360
    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    lol @ Wrath being the pinnacle of raiding, what total utter BS, you are the person blinded by nostalgia.

    Wrath had two yes count them TWO really good raids.

    Ulduar and ICC and we had ICC for 1 year, this is what you want?

    ToC? Really? You want more raids like ToC, this is what you want?

    Naxx 25? Can you imagine the outcry on these very forums if T17 was BWL10 + 25? Can you?

    No thanks I would rather have quality original raids over quantity and in a shorter timespan.

    So in summary your wish for MoP is

    1) To have a raid like ToC, probably the most hated raid in WoW history.

    2) A Reworked Raid just retuned lets say BWL.

    3) The last Tier to last at least 12 months.

    No thanks I would rather have an original raid and they deliver it quicker.

    If it means I get no new 5 mans then so be it.

    They are able to make bigger quality raids more consistently at the cost of 5 mans as LFR replaces gear catch up, if you can't see that then you are the blind one.

    I would love more 5 mans, I am realistic about it though and I don't think I can have everything.
    Oh boy, the "My opinion is fact" guy shows up.

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