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  1. #1161
    Quote Originally Posted by bufferunderrun View Post
    fair is leaving normal/heroic mgv and toes loot unchanged and no one is asking for a change of it; lfr offer subpar gear and also we are talking about past tier, there is nothing unfair in letting people gear a bit more fast using lfr.
    but it already does. Since 5.2 gear in LFR is dropping like rain, on top of that you can run it and have a shot on drop as many time as you want via bonus roll.
    Don't get me wrong I'm not super against it (I think you mean no lockout in LFR), but I just think it's not necessary because it would burn people much faster.

  2. #1162
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    Quote Originally Posted by segoplout View Post
    5 man dungeons haven't been well made by Blizzard since TBC and even then the dungeons in TBC were no WAY near as good as the ones in vanilla. So no great loss, sadly. It's been a long long time since Blizzard made a good dungeon. The ones in Pandaria were laughable but the trend started in WOTLK. My God that was painful. Compared to dungeons like lbrs/ubrs/brd/strat/scholo ?? Where the hell did all that talent go Blizz? Those older dungeons are on a completely different dimension in terms of gameplay and design.. so many quirks.
    Good to see someone else gets it. Even in BC, dungeons were moving towards "straight halls with loot at the end" and that trend got worse with every xpac.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-13 at 08:40 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHellfire View Post
    Nostalgia sure does cloud the mind, huh? Now seriously. That's pretty much nonsense, try to be objective for a second.
    Nostalgia, hm? Can you please point out any post-vanilla dungeon that approached Scholomance in complexity? Things like related quests, crafting relevance, non-linearity, and in-instance tricks, traps, and puzzles?

  3. #1163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Dumbing down? LOL 5 mans were a joke to say the least, show me your raid progression please.
    And therefore we should replace the dungeons with scenarios, because that isn't dumber in any way.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-13 at 10:35 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    So you don't want to do any raiding outside LFR and you complain that your endgame consists mostly of LFR?

    If you want to raid, get a guild and raid. Otherwise there's LFR. What the hell DO you want to do? Maybe Blizzard should just mail you your BiS gear and you could afk in SW/Org all day reflecting on how awesome you are?
    Yeah, cause normal raiding guilds will focus on 5.1 raids in 5.4

  4. #1164
    I don't think it would hurt to add a new dungeon or two. Maybe come up with a different kind of loot system, or have it drop 476's and not items that are some kind of huge upgrade, and only belts, bracers, necks, rings, etc instead of the bigger stuff like weapons. I agree with the poster above who said that one-time scenarios don't exactly give the impression of development time well spent. All that being said, I do like the new system better, it was frustrating to be a raider during Firelands and have all of the gear you got invalidated when the End Times came out. An almost brand new 85 could get geared almost or as well as you from those dungeons in a matter of days. Maybe if there was a limit on looting bosses like there is in LFR, albeit with the ability to use Elder Charms for another chance or whatever. I hate to see new "quick content" that's easy to queue for and run disappear, but I agree with Blizzard that there's no longer a place for it in the game with the new system of LFR's.

    And to the poster who said that 5 mans where a joke, I would agree that some of them were; pretty much all of the Mists ones were, although the original Cata heroics were not exactly a joke, and the Zul's were very difficult when in a PuG as new content as well. I can remember having to solo Venoxis on my blood dk after the rest of the party died to his "poison maze," and don't even get me started on Jin'do, whose mechanics were beyond difficult for the average PuG and arguably more difficult than some raid bosses. And while I'm not a hardcore raider, I am 16/16 5.0 raids pre-5.2, so I'm not exactly unskilled. Point is, the 5 mans probably became a "joke" because they're intended to be easy content for casuals or just a way to get quick Valor otherwise. I don't think we've seen the last of them, but I think we've seen the last of any being released after the start of an expansion.

  5. #1165
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Yeah cuz facerolling through 5 mans and playing world of queuecraft was better right? LOL
    You do you know you queue for LFR too right? Right? Cause. This is the same as 5-mans but more time consuming, less fun, and slower to gear from. I can still just queue for LFR in a major city and never ever leave. You considered that before you made a retarded post right?

    Enjoy "Mists of Pandailyia" and paying $15 a month to run LFR content over and over again on all your alts in whatever magical way you have to do it that doesn't requiring queuing for it. Since queuing for things makes it unfun LOL LOL LOL

    And look at the subs, obviously ICC was more enjoyable to more people.
    Last edited by Mordredofmia; 2013-03-13 at 03:19 PM.

  6. #1166
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    The upped the drop rate in LFR, I got 2 pieces in the first half of LFR on my monk, hell I got 3 pieces of tier gear on my shaman a few weeks ago in the same run! What more do you people want???? For them to start you off at level 90 with all the current gear? Maybe once you ding 90 they send you a gift package with relevant gear???
    I don't think your really getting what I'm saying. First your example is subjective. What happened to "you" this one time in LFR does not have any bearing on what someone else might experience. Great your alt got three pieces of gear...but I guarantee you somebody else got none.
    Second, your experience now in LFR will in no way be the same 6 months from now. You can see it now on realms. The amount of people doing the first tier is already dropping as more people stop using LFR for MSV/HOF/and TOS and start running TOT. Que times for all classes are increasing and will continue to increase as more of TOT gets released to LFR. Now flash forward 6 months and we have yet another tier with the SoO. How long do you think your que time is gonna be for MSV/HOF/ToES then? Its going to be abysmal and even after you wait over an hour in a que you will have to pray you get a group that can complete it and then you still have to hope the dice gods are on your side and you actually get a piece.

    the new dungeons resolved this problem by allowing you to que for them at a lower ilevel and then you got gear that was much better then what you currently had and you could chain run them until you caught up to your friends.

    You don't have to "hand people a gift package" but you can't have the only means of progressing your character outside of VP gear for current tier be a carrot on a stick were the carrot is only there at best 10% of the time.

    Otherwise whats gonna happen is people are going to hit 90 and then just chain run BG's until they get a full set of PVP gear with the highest ilevel and then just que for the SoO raid in full PVP gear.

  7. #1167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosturn View Post
    And therefore we should replace the dungeons with scenarios, because that isn't dumber in any way.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-13 at 10:35 AM ----------



    Yeah, cause normal raiding guilds will focus on 5.1 raids in 5.4
    False. Scenarios are far easier than heroics. Heroics you wipe, enemy resets. Scenarios you wipe, your NPC buddies make sure the enemy doesn't reset. Heroics take strategy, Scenarios are a zerg rush.
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    If you dislike where WoW is headed in your mind, quit. Really. Sitting around complaining about "promises" that may or may not have been made isn't doing anything to help your cause. It's just making you look more and more like the constantly complaining and perpetually offended.

  8. #1168
    i think tot is the last raidinstance bevor next expansion comes out !

  9. #1169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordredofmia View Post
    You do you know you queue for LFR too right? Right? Cause. This is the same as 5-mans but more time consuming, less fun, and slower to gear from. I can still just queue for LFR in a major city and never ever leave. You considered that before you made a retarded post right?

    Enjoy "Mists of Pandailyia" and paying $15 a month to run LFR content over and over again on all your alts in whatever magical way you have to do it that doesn't requiring queuing for it. Since queuing for things makes it unfun LOL LOL LOL

    And look at the subs, obviously ICC was more enjoyable to more people.
    Actually I hardly touch LFR unless I am bored enough to, I get sick of the fools in it, I do normal raids (got geared in heroics then went to MSV normal).....you know....raided the old way before everything was done with a button push and people got lazy.

  10. #1170
    Quote Originally Posted by Raptoos View Post
    No it is not.

    There are content needing a gear - raids. You don't belong to those people, because it's about an alt.

    There are content not needing a good gear, like challenge modes or hunting rares over all Pandaria

    And there are content needed no gear at all, like professions, battle pets.

    You see only first option, like it was mandatory. This game have many faces. If you don't want to gear up, do anything else.
    There are other content needing gear, like Brawler's guild.

    And again, MMORPG is about progressing you character, and even Blizzard already admitted that aprt of that is getting better gear.

  11. #1171
    This is just another reason Challenge Modes are junk. With no new dungeons there is no reason to do them for the rest of an expansion. It is pretty sad when so many have completely beaten a feature of the game before the first tier/season is over and are given nothing to fill it's void.
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  12. #1172
    I think the no-new-dungeons is creating so much controversy, since a lot of people haven't realized the 'new direction' the game is going yet, and this is a huge wake up call to those players.

    The current gear up method once you reach 90 is just terrible, especially for many of us who enjoyed doing 5 mans with friends or guildies in the past to gear up or just simply to have a good time. Do I understand the reasoning why they aren't making new dungeons? Of course, but I don't agree with the reasoning at all, or even how Blizzard reached the state of the gear tiers we have now. Just like I don't agree with all of the daily nonsense we have.

    What it really comes down to is that many of us aren't enjoying the 'new direction' of the game. Oh there's stuff to do all right, but many of us aren't finding it enjoyable. If you aren't enjoying the game and don't hate yourself, I recommend you just cancel your sub. I'm glad I did a few months ago, and I wish I had done so sooner.

  13. #1173
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Duval View Post
    I think the no-new-dungeons is creating so much controversy, since a lot of people haven't realized the 'new direction' the game is going yet, and this is a huge wake up call to those players.

    The current gear up method once you reach 90 is just terrible, especially for many of us who enjoyed doing 5 mans with friends or guildies in the past to gear up or just simply to have a good time. Do I understand the reasoning why they aren't making new dungeons? Of course, but I don't agree with the reasoning at all, or even how Blizzard reached the state of the gear tiers we have now. Just like I don't agree with all of the daily nonsense we have.

    What it really comes down to is that many of us aren't enjoying the 'new direction' of the game. Oh there's stuff to do all right, but many of us aren't finding it enjoyable. If you aren't enjoying the game and don't hate yourself, I recommend you just cancel your sub. I'm glad I did a few months ago, and I wish I had done so sooner.
    We understand completely that the game is having a new direction, we just don't want that direction in the game anymore, it's bad, and it changes the core we were used to for 8 friggin years, a new direction shouldn't come out after the player base got their mind set fixated on the old direction which was the very core of the game for 8 years.

  14. #1174
    Stood in the Fire
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    On one hand I understand their decision. 5 mans were meant (and most people treated them) for groups of players to just get together and do something minor for story and a little gear. Scenarios are pretty much the same except that there's less role requirements, meaning it's faster for a majority of their player-base to find a group for their small group content.

    As someone who loves the healing role in MMOs, I'm a bit disappointed. GW is a series where you can group up with anyone and do any role well enough to make it through a lot of the group content and people love it. I'm not one of those people. I like that members in the trinity system depend on one another for things they themselves cannot do. It creates stronger connections then when everyone's playing like a single player game, together.

  15. #1175
    Quote Originally Posted by jimlow View Post
    Second, your experience now in LFR will in no way be the same 6 months from now. You can see it now on realms. The amount of people doing the first tier is already dropping as more people stop using LFR for MSV/HOF/and TOS and start running TOT. Que times for all classes are increasing and will continue to increase as more of TOT gets released to LFR. Now flash forward 6 months and we have yet another tier with the SoO. How long do you think your que time is gonna be for MSV/HOF/ToES then? Its going to be abysmal and even after you wait over an hour in a que you will have to pray you get a group that can complete it and then you still have to hope the dice gods are on your side and you actually get a piece.
    "Que" times don't work that way.

    If 2/25 players wanted to tank, 6/25 players wanted to heal, and 17/25 players wanted to DPS, then everybody would have sub one minute queUEs.

    However, 4/25 players want to tank, 2/25 players want to heal, and 19/25 players want to DPS.

    So because no one wants to heal, DPS sit around waiting for healers. Because too many players want to tank, tanks sit around in general.

    My most played characters heal, so LFR is fine.

  16. #1176
    Dungeons and raids are everything to this game. They are the only parts of the game that offer some sort of challenge. There would be no need for roles if not for dungeons and raids. That's where the true gameplay lies. Quests, and to a lesser extent scenarios, can be done with one skill bound to your bars. Why so much energy is now being directed towards them is beyond me. It really does seem like Blizzard is fetching ideas from upper level executives. "Hey, my kid wiped in Throne of the Tides, can you not put that stuff in the next game plz?"

  17. #1177
    Quote Originally Posted by Incredibale View Post
    Dungeons and raids are everything to this game. They are the only parts of the game that offer some sort of challenge. There would be no need for roles if not for dungeons and raids. That's where the true gameplay lies. Quests, and to a lesser extent scenarios, can be done with one skill bound to your bars. Why so much energy is now being directed towards them is beyond me. It really does seem like Blizzard is fetching ideas from upper level executives. "Hey, my kid wiped in Throne of the Tides, can you not put that stuff in the next game plz?"
    Blizzard are becoming lazier each expansion.

    There's your answer.

  18. #1178
    Quote Originally Posted by CrossNgen View Post
    Blizzard are becoming lazier each expansion.
    There's your answer.
    Oh, come on. It is totally not Blizzard's fault.
    Blizzard made a good, hard and challenging dungeons in the start of Cata, and what they get? A shitstorm with sub losses because it looks like people don't want to CC and challenge play, they want to storm in pack of mobs, press aoe skills and get phat lootz.
    Blizzard made a good and easy dungeons in the end of Cata, and what they get? A shitstorm because it looks like that people suddenly don't want easy peasy aoe filled dungeons with phat loots, they suddenly want challenge now, they find easy boring and don't want to do boring stuff.
    Blizzard made easy peasy dungeons AND challenge modes in MoP, and what they get? A shitstorm, oh yea. Suddenly those who are the core players for easy peasy dungeons want challenge modes and its sets, but are enable to have them because of lack of skill to get; and players who have the skill for challenge modes are bored of the stuff just as they are bored in Brawlers guild and all other "hard" stuff.
    So it is a very logic decision just not to do dungeons at all, looks like noone likes them anyway, no difference how hard or easy they are.
    So, whenever it comes to QQ - cry more, on every topic here and there, and in a few years all you'll have in wow will be dailies and nothing else.

  19. #1179
    Blizzard made a good, hard and challenging dungeons in the start of Cata, and what they get? A shitstorm with sub losses because it looks like people don't want to CC and challenge play, they want to storm in pack of mobs, press aoe skills and get phat lootz... those who are the core players for easy peasy dungeons want challenge modes and its sets, but are enable to have them because of lack of skill to get
    That's because you can use CC all you want in CMs but the only way to get gold is to, as you say, storm in and mash your AoE skills. You can't get gold if your spec has shitty AoE and you'll have a really hard time as melee in any case.
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  20. #1180
    If they could keep adding heroic dungeons as a slower but more reliable way to gear up next to LFR it would be great. It's how it worked in tbc and wotlk and it's how it was successful. Why they ever moved away from the formula I have no clue.

    First tier of heroic dungeons provides emblems/badges that can be used on ilvl 476-489 gear.
    Second tier of heroic dungeons provides emblems/badges that be used on ilvl 489-504 gear.
    Final bosses of heroic dungeons drop gear equivalent to the badge rewards from that tier.
    Challenge modes provide gear equivalent to normal mode raids.

    Voila, I just solved the entire issue of gearing up, retardedness of LFR, ACTUAL CHOICES in gear progression in under a minute. And with very little extra work to go with it ESPECIALLY if they stop forcing dailies/scenarios at the expense of 5-mans.

    And to top it all off I gave players an incentive to actually become better at the game.
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