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  1. #1261
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    And this "regular mode" is mindblowingly boring, you can seriously fall asleep while doing it.
    Yeah, it would be nice if challenge mode actually gave you more reward than heroics (relative to the difference in difficulty level). Then people would have a reason to run them. Like move the charms from dailies to challenge modes. Maybe have challenge modes drop valor off each boss? Or have each challenge mode boss drop an epic item. Or something that would help make it part of gearing progression.

  2. #1262
    Quote Originally Posted by Horymir View Post
    Hey guys, look at this comparison:
    The Burning Crusade, which is generally praised as the best period of WoW, offered players SIXTEEN 5-man dungeons, with ALL of them having both normal and heroic mode.
    Wrath of the Lich King: same number. Once again SIXTEEN awesome, fun dungeons, once again all of them available in normal/heroic mode.

    Now here comes Mists of LFR-tardia. Only NINE dungeons. Of those, only FOUR are available on normal mode difficulty. So if any masochists decide to level by doing dungeons, they will be seeing the freaking SAME FOUR places over and over again. Oh, and only FOUR dungeons take you into truly new places. SM + Scholo are rehashed zones, Gate of Setting Sun and Siege of Niuzao are just instanced "snapshots" of Vale/Townlong Steppes, only filled with elite insects. So the awesome team responsible for creating dungeons brought us -FOUR- dungeons. Thats not even pathetic anymore.
    ... Err. In WotLK, you do realise that they only had 16 dungeons because they carved so many of the larger dungeons into tiny little dungeons, right? You had "dungeons" like Azjol'nerub which could literally be completed in less than 7 minutes. Generally most of them were so short that by the end of the expansion, people would start leaving any dungeon if it looked like the group would take longer than 15 minutes. If they carved the MoP dungeons into 1-2 dungeons each, then yeah, we could also have 16 dungeons. But it wouldn't really make a difference at the end of the day.
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  3. #1263
    Quote Originally Posted by Throrion View Post
    ... Err. In WotLK, you do realise that they only had 16 dungeons because they carved so many of the larger dungeons into tiny little dungeons, right? You had "dungeons" like Azjol'nerub which could literally be completed in less than 7 minutes. Generally most of them were so short that by the end of the expansion, people would start leaving any dungeon if it looked like the group would take longer than 15 minutes. If they carved the MoP dungeons into 1-2 dungeons each, then yeah, we could also have 16 dungeons. But it wouldn't really make a difference at the end of the day.
    This is what the "easy" 5 mans have lead to. They are merely a stepping stone. Back in Vanilla and TBC Dungeons were pretty much end game for "Average/Casual" players. They were hard, challenging, and often times long. I was a pretty average player, and I was fine just running 5 mans, because they were fun and I found them challenging.

    5 mans were great for me because I could run with good friends. Now if I were to use LFR it would be a few good friends and a bunch of people that I probably don't care to know, half of which play with their faces on the keyboards (or bots). I would take a challenging, long 5 man dungeon with friends over a LFR experience 9 times out of 10.

  4. #1264
    As much as the final tier 5mans fit their respective patches in Wrath and Cata, I feel their place has been taken by LFR. I hit ilevel 460 before even running through all of the 5mans of 5.0. I still haven't experienced Gate of the Setting Sun...
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  5. #1265
    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter Extraordinaire View Post
    This, to me dungeons are fun, and they pass the time if you're waiting for something ( like a player to login for raid as an example)
    It still baffles me that, with the gear/creature scaling, they don't just have an auto-update with "brackets" of ALL the game's dungeons at max-level for people to play. If a flood of items are a problem, then perhaps they drop the same dungeon loot as the normal max-level dungeons the expansions came with, but randomly chosen.

    When I say "brackets" I mean that... you can click on Vanilla, BC, Wrath, Cata or MoP dungeons on or off. So, if you love Wrath and MoP dungeons, just check those two. If you prefer harder dungeons, select Vanilla, BC and - maybe - Cata if you wish. Even have the ability to "abstain" from specific dungeons too if you wish kinda like BGs.

    This way the dungeons don't become stale overnight - and becomes a whole game unto its own.

  6. #1266
    Quote Originally Posted by Throrion View Post
    ... Err. In WotLK, you do realise that they only had 16 dungeons because they carved so many of the larger dungeons into tiny little dungeons, right? You had "dungeons" like Azjol'nerub which could literally be completed in less than 7 minutes. Generally most of them were so short that by the end of the expansion, people would start leaving any dungeon if it looked like the group would take longer than 15 minutes. If they carved the MoP dungeons into 1-2 dungeons each, then yeah, we could also have 16 dungeons. But it wouldn't really make a difference at the end of the day.
    They did not carve dungeons in two during WOTLK, heroics could be completed in less than fifteen minutes because people were running them with gear that 50-60 item levels higher than they were designed for. None of the MOP dungeons feel significantly larger than anything available in WOTLK and I do not think people would accept dungeons that only had one or two bosses which would be the result of splitting the MOP heroics.

  7. #1267
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    they add flavor and new stuff, bosses, gear, etc

    it has purpose, but it also inherently destroys previous content like raids.

  8. #1268
    No new 5 mans, but we're getting heroic scenarios? 5 mans look to be going extinct with this new end game progression system by Blizz.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    You're full of shit honey.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    You should have no expectations for the next expansion IMO...

  9. #1269
    Quote Originally Posted by Fagatronics View Post
    No new 5 mans, but we're getting heroic scenarios? 5 mans look to be going extinct with this new end game progression system by Blizz.
    I don't know if you've noticed, but Blizzard is trying out a lot of new ideas this expansion. Don't read into things so much. We still got what, 10 heroics? Blizzard is just appealing to another audience, chill out.

  10. #1270
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    It just seems lazy to me, I don't care if you disagree with this. Who can tell you that scenarios replace 5 man heroic dungeons for content? Scenarios are just awkward mini events like a small group quest with lackluster bosses and absolutely no guarantee for getting loot.

    Also, in terms of running old content, people like to run old dungeons and raids, for loot and achievements, its something that can kill time when you have nothing to do in wow and want to work towards a goal like getting a transmog set. I like running old dungeons and raids for that reason. This? Once you go beyond the required level, the scenario's can't be entered again and they disappear from your list, where as dungeons remain where they are.

    I'm just convinced after they spent time on making pandaria, which honestly had more effort out into it then cataclysm for max level content, after they got it done, they decided to just say 'pff, thats enough, just pop a few raids in now and thats all we need'.

    I don't want to have to say it, but is this what we expect to see of wow in times to come, does this come from the fallout of them focusing all there efforts into Titan?

  11. #1271
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    It just seems lazy to me, I don't care if you disagree with this. Who can tell you that scenarios replace 5 man heroic dungeons for content? Scenarios are just awkward mini events like a small group quest with lackluster bosses and absolutely no guarantee for getting loot.

    Also, in terms of running old content, people like to run old dungeons and raids, for loot and achievements, its something that can kill time when you have nothing to do in wow and want to work towards a goal like getting a transmog set. I like running old dungeons and raids for that reason. This? Once you go beyond the required level, the scenario's can't be entered again and they disappear from your list, where as dungeons remain where they are.

    I'm just convinced after they spent time on making pandaria, which honestly had more effort out into it then cataclysm for max level content, after they got it done, they decided to just say 'pff, thats enough, just pop a few raids in now and thats all we need'.

    I don't want to have to say it, but is this what we expect to see of wow in times to come, does this come from the fallout of them focusing all there efforts into Titan?
    Just because you dislike a majority of the activities doesn't mean Blizzard is making no content.

  12. #1272
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    It just seems lazy to me, I don't care if you disagree with this. Who can tell you that scenarios replace 5 man heroic dungeons for content? Scenarios are just awkward mini events like a small group quest with lackluster bosses and absolutely no guarantee for getting loot.
    Has it occurred to you that scenarios are going to change over time? Who knows, maybe they will guarantee loot at some point, and bosses might be more "dungeon-like". I think that scenarios have a good potential to become something pretty neat.

    I do agree that in their current state, they are quite lackluster. However, it does seem like their design team is working to put more effort into them to make them more appealing.

  13. #1273
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    They did not carve dungeons in two during WOTLK, heroics could be completed in less than fifteen minutes because people were running them with gear that 50-60 item levels higher than they were designed for.
    Yes they did. Something like Azjol'Nerub and the Old Kingdom would have been one instance in Cata or MoP, for instance. Same things go with many of the other dungeons which were essentially just variations over the same thing.
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  14. #1274
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    Who knows, maybe they will guarantee loot at some point, and bosses might be more "dungeon-like". I think that scenarios have a good potential to become something pretty neat.
    So they make them "3-mans with only 1 boss with loot table"? That's "good" idea, imagine how much they would get "new content" by splitting current dungeons, one boss = one new scenario!

  15. #1275
    Quote Originally Posted by Throrion View Post
    Yes they did. Something like Azjol'Nerub and the Old Kingdom would have been one instance in Cata or MoP, for instance. Same things go with many of the other dungeons which were essentially just variations over the same thing.
    Azjol-Nerub is a dungeon hub the same as The Nexus, Utgarde, and Frozen Halls as were Coilfang Reservoir, Hellfire Citadel, Auchindoun and Tempest Keep in TBC.

  16. #1276
    Quote Originally Posted by SherbertLand View Post
    I don't know if you've noticed, but Blizzard is trying out a lot of new ideas this expansion. Don't read into things so much. We still got what, 10 heroics? Blizzard is just appealing to another audience, chill out.
    I have noticed. I think heroic scenarios is a solution to an absent problem. Most players like dungeons yet they seem to be getting phased out by LFR and it's looking like scenarios as well.

    Appealing to another audience is fine if you've satisfied your current one and there are plenty of other things players would like looked at aside from scenarios.

    There are currently 9 heroics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    You're full of shit honey.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    You should have no expectations for the next expansion IMO...

  17. #1277
    Bloodsail Admiral Lethey Alexandros's Avatar
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    5 man dungeons only negate old content if they are designed to negate old content. Bosses dont need huge item lists, a few trinkets, couple rings a neck or two for the different specs/classes. Thngs people typicaly have a hard time getting.

    In addition to limited items from boss drops. add a couple mounts, some unique vanity skins for various armor types for transmog. Some achivements and maybe even a couple items like the hilt quest from ICC dungeons. Even a nice quest reward for completeing a quest chain that encompased all the dungeons relased with gold rewarded in between. This could be bracers or maybe a cape.

    So, rings, trinkets, neck, vanity skins for weapons/armor, mounts, quest objects/ and one long quest chain with a single item reward

    Following this method I think blizz could make new dunegons without makeing old content useless

  18. #1278
    Deleted
    Was it necessary to necro this shit thread?

  19. #1279
    Quote Originally Posted by Fagatronics View Post
    I have noticed. I think heroic scenarios is a solution to an absent problem. Most players like dungeons yet they seem to be getting phased out by LFR and it's looking like scenarios as well.

    Appealing to another audience is fine if you've satisfied your current one and there are plenty of other things players would like looked at aside from scenarios.

    There are currently 9 heroics.
    Most people like dungeons? They want more because they're bored of the ones we have now. When it comes to content, satisfaction doesn't really exist for that long. You would get used to them if they pumped out 10 heroic instances a patch.

  20. #1280
    Quote Originally Posted by Throrion View Post
    ... Err. In WotLK, you do realise that they only had 16 dungeons because they carved so many of the larger dungeons into tiny little dungeons, right? You had "dungeons" like Azjol'nerub which could literally be completed in less than 7 minutes. Generally most of them were so short that by the end of the expansion, people would start leaving any dungeon if it looked like the group would take longer than 15 minutes. If they carved the MoP dungeons into 1-2 dungeons each, then yeah, we could also have 16 dungeons. But it wouldn't really make a difference at the end of the day.
    Wrath dungeons were great.

    Cata dungeons sucked, and they fixed that in MoP. MoP dungeons weere great again, but they fixed just to tell us they wont make any more in the expansion, which i think is the biggest mistake Blizzard has made in all the 8 years of WoW's history, and they will end up paying for that.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-03 at 02:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    they add flavor and new stuff, bosses, gear, etc

    it has purpose, but it also inherently destroys previous content like raids.
    So they make old content obsolete, what is the problem?

    Should we not launch any new content because it could make Molten Core obsolete?

    In 5.3, 5.0 content IS OLD and SHOULD BE obsolete.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-03 at 02:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fagatronics View Post
    No new 5 mans, but we're getting heroic scenarios? 5 mans look to be going extinct with this new end game progression system by Blizz.

    Yeah, who cares about healers, right? Lets cater the whole game to DPSers which are the majority of people.

    This isnt about making a quality game, just making kids happy with their dps characters...

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