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  1. #1301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    I wonder if 4.3 would have been a better patch if, instead of dungeons, the three 5 mans were folded into the Dragon Soul raid.

    Make two of the echos into raid fights, third boss is Murazond. Next boss is Azshara, followed by Mannoroth. Then we get to Wyrmrest, with Bennedictus as a raid boss, and then have the rest of the raid play out.

    As for MoP, considering we're in the age of 5 level expansions I don't have a problem with the number of dungeons. You pretty much always have more than one you can run at any level except maybe 85, and once you hit level cap the heroics are only one step of the gearing process instead of a constant catch up mechanic. So releasing massive amounts of them is silly.
    Thematic-wise it wouldn't fit. They could've spend more development time on the raid though, but that would mean we would not have seen those 5-mans and I rather liked them.

  2. #1302
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    I wonder if 4.3 would have been a better patch if, instead of dungeons, the three 5 mans were folded into the Dragon Soul raid.

    Make two of the echos into raid fights, third boss is Murazond. Next boss is Azshara, followed by Mannoroth. Then we get to Wyrmrest, with Bennedictus as a raid boss, and then have the rest of the raid play out.

    As for MoP, considering we're in the age of 5 level expansions I don't have a problem with the number of dungeons. You pretty much always have more than one you can run at any level except maybe 85, and once you hit level cap the heroics are only one step of the gearing process instead of a constant catch up mechanic. So releasing massive amounts of them is silly.
    Wait, how does Azshara and and Mannoroth(deceased) fit into Dragon Soul? Did you forget the part where the 4.3 heroics were in the past/future?

  3. #1303
    I duno, Scenarios seem like a better way to tell a story than 5 mans do. I mean, you usually interact with NPCs more, and need to do more than kill.

    I approve of this. With Scenarios, there will most likely not be another Battle for the Undercity type quest. Instead, there going to be incorporated into Scenarios, which is a plus seeing as how at the end of the day the main purpose of them is gear/valor.

  4. #1304
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    I believe 100% that they wont ever do new 5 players in a non first expansion patch. They can satisfy the low end pve players with LFR now. They don't need to.
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  5. #1305
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    I believe 100% that they wont ever do new 5 players in a non first expansion patch. They can satisfy the low end pve players with LFR now. They don't need to.
    LFR can only be run once a week. 5-mans can be run multiple times a day. Big difference. LFR will never be able to replace 5-mans unless they change the lock out period....which could happen.....

  6. #1306
    Quote Originally Posted by SherbertLand View Post
    Wait, how does Azshara and and Mannoroth(deceased) fit into Dragon Soul? Did you forget the part where the 4.3 heroics were in the past/future?
    What I'm suggesting is that it might have been interesting to, instead of having them as seperate 5 mans, have them as wings of a raid in which the story progresses.

  7. #1307
    Quote Originally Posted by Fagatronics View Post
    I don't think they would ever completely get rid of dungeons. But I do think they are leaning more towards it being a niche activity now compared to when it was a necessary step in PVE progression. If that is their intent for dungeons, I personally disagree with that philosophy.
    Honestly I think that would be great. That way, instead of churning out 8 or 9 crappy hallway dungeons they can focus on 2-3 difficult BRD type dungeons.

  8. #1308
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    What I'm suggesting is that it might have been interesting to, instead of having them as seperate 5 mans, have them as wings of a raid in which the story progresses.
    I don't see how they could pull that all together. Murozond is in the future, The echos are in the future. Deathwing is actually a corpse on Wyrmrest. And then we go to fight him in present time?

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-03 at 05:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercaust View Post
    Honestly I think that would be great. That way, instead of churning out 8 or 9 crappy hallway dungeons they can focus on 2-3 difficult BRD type dungeons.
    More people like short and quick instances.

  9. #1309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    I feared as much when they said that additional 5-mans don't fit the current instant gratification model.
    Fixed this for you OP.

    Sadly, I doubt we'll even get them next expansion.

    Looks to me like it's going to be Regular / Heroic Scenarios taking the place of Regular / Heroic 5's.

  10. #1310
    Imo, Worst Idea ever.

  11. #1311
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    Quote Originally Posted by alturic View Post
    Just out of curiosity why exactly do people feel new 5-mans are needed?
    Because not everyone enjoys doing 3457385734589340583495835 dailies.
    Because not everyone enjoys Scenarios.
    Because not everyone enjoys Battlegrounds.
    Because not everyone can stop their daily routine to raid with 9/24 other people (random or with a guild).

    Dungeons used to fill a small time space I had during the day. Now I just Pet Battle and occasionally do a dungeon.

  12. #1312
    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    But this is what you SHOULD be comparing it to content should be seen as a WHOLE not just focusing on what you want to to try and make your point.

    They have stated that LFR has allowed them to produce larger quality raids in a quicker time scale.

    So if the choice was...

    3 5 Mans, 8 Man Boss Raid and nothing else for 10 months (aka 4.3)

    New Daily Hub (Isle), 12 (13) Boss Raid, Scenarios and another minor patch adding more scenarios, dailies, brawlers guild bosses + more in 2 months and another Raid in 6 months (aka 5.2)

    In my opinion there is no contest.

    Would I love more 5 mans ofc I would (as long as they don't rain raid quality epics).

    Buy we can't have everything right?

    When will it stop?

    All I hear from you is /cry "I want everything and I want it NOW!"

    So LFR allowed them to produce raids more quicly, but MoP will have one less raid tier than Wrath? (and Wrath had many single boss raids too that MoP doesnt have, as well as a huge amount of dungeons).

    The choice is not that one. They have ALREADY MADE more raids and dungeons than in this expansion, the new thing that is stopping them from making it now is SCENARIOS AND DAILIES, not raids...

    How can peolpe be fooled with this when we had raids and dungeons being produced at the same time for years in WoW? How can people buy the crap Blizzard is trying to sell when they say dailies and scenarios dont hold dungeons production?

    In my opinion there is no contest either, dungeons vs daileis+scenarios gets a sure win for dungeons.

    Raids and dungeons were always here in WoW, the new element stopping them from making more dungeons is that they want to launch new dailies and scenarios in each patch.

    And if you really think scenarios dont require the same team than dungeons when they are a group content, with art, encounter mechanics and objectives, then you are blinded...

    We cant have everything, but we can have quality dungeons AND raids being launched regularly, we know this because WE ALREADY HAD THAT IN WRATH, so dont try to say we cant have both.

    You can keep being blind to facts, but that's a choice you are making.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-04 at 08:47 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Invictus9001 View Post
    There have been catchup dungeons, and that wasn't declared as if it were something new. I just think Blizzard woke up and smelled the virtual coffee when the final 5-mans in Cata came through.
    Sorry it may be that its early in the morning or that english is not my native language, but i did not understand what you were trying to tell me here.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-04 at 08:51 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    I believe 100% that they wont ever do new 5 players in a non first expansion patch. They can satisfy the low end pve players with LFR now. They don't need to.
    And i belive 100% that when they see they are bleeding subs at a cataclysmic level in MoP they will see how big of a mistake they did with this and they will give us catch up dungeons in the enxt expansion.

    But as usual with Blizzard, it would be too late.

  13. #1313
    Quote Originally Posted by Crym View Post
    I ran heroic 5 mans almost daily in BC with people no more geared than we could get in Karazhan and they were pretty easy. Ran Mech with a warlock in Black Temple gear and he asked us to stand by while he soloed quite a few of the trash groups just to make it more interesting.

    Cataclysm had the most challenging 5 mans I've ever run. Even with gear being more available, groups wiped because the mechanics were designed to be punishing instead of just a gear check. I didn't play at the end of the expansion and I'm sure instances like Grim Batol that made people leave when they found out that's what they were given got much easier toward the end of the expansion, but for a while there I would only run that place with guildies because the random players kept getting in the 1-2 shot mechanics and wiping over and over.
    So you were using T4 Raid gear in BC Heroics, of course they would be easier at that point. I stated they were pretty much end game for people that did not raid, and because they would of had 0 raid gear it was indeed challenging.

    I actually really liked the early Cata dungeons. Some were really tough. I think the main reason those failed is because of the LFD system. Like you say it pairs random strangers together, with virtually no communication or general idea of an individuals skill level. They were indeed wipe fests with that type of group. However, they were quite fun when running with a group of friends. The game in the past was more about tight knit groups of players, where as now with LFR and LFD its about trying to include everyone but at the same time not creating any type of social bond or interaction.

  14. #1314
    I enjoy 5 man runs with my guildies that I can put together in 30 seconds. Just fun factor.

  15. #1315
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    So LFR allowed them to produce raids more quicly, but MoP will have one less raid tier than Wrath? (and Wrath had many single boss raids too that MoP doesnt have, as well as a huge amount of dungeons).

    The choice is not that one. They have ALREADY MADE more raids and dungeons than in this expansion, the new thing that is stopping them from making it now is SCENARIOS AND DAILIES, not raids...
    Your logic is flawed. It's true that Wrath had more tiers than MoP but you shouldn't focus so much on the numbers. Naxxramas was a lvl 80 version of the raid that's already been in the game for 4 years. I don't think I have to explain why ToC was crap too. So far, the quality of raids in MoP is way better than it was in Wrath.

  16. #1316
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercaust View Post
    but I doubt that Blizzard will totally drop 5-mans. What would have been the purpose of developing LFG?
    They gained technology to group players cross-realm by role and expanded it to LFR and in 5.3 appear to be expanding it to BGs.

  17. #1317
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Azjol-Nerub is a dungeon hub the same as The Nexus, Utgarde, and Frozen Halls as were Coilfang Reservoir, Hellfire Citadel, Auchindoun and Tempest Keep in TBC.
    Yes, and the point was that Blizzard did away with dungeon hubs in Cata and MoP. Instead of having a dungeon hub with 2-3 short dungeons that are pretty much visually identical, they have one longer dungeon instead.
    This is my signature. You will now remember me.

  18. #1318
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanochan View Post
    Because not everyone enjoys doing 3457385734589340583495835 dailies.
    Because not everyone enjoys Scenarios.
    Because not everyone enjoys Battlegrounds.
    Because not everyone can stop their daily routine to raid with 9/24 other people (random or with a guild).

    Dungeons used to fill a small time space I had during the day. Now I just Pet Battle and occasionally do a dungeon.
    Pretty much this, except that I hate petbattles.
    Dailies suck, so do scenarios

  19. #1319
    Quote Originally Posted by Throrion View Post
    Yes, and the point was that Blizzard did away with dungeon hubs in Cata and MoP. Instead of having a dungeon hub with 2-3 short dungeons that are pretty much visually identical, they have one longer dungeon instead.
    No dungeon in MOP has more than four bosses, four in WOTLK had five bosses. The Halls of Lightning and The Culling of Stratholme feel bigger than any of the MOP dungeons with the exception of The Shado Pan Monastery I would go as far as to say that Temple of the Jade Serpent and Stormstout Brewery feel smaller than all but The Violet Hold in WOTLK. Whilst Blizzard might have done away with dungeon hubs they most certainly not given us longer dungeons.

  20. #1320
    Quote Originally Posted by SherbertLand View Post
    More people like short and quick instances.
    They can do scenarios, they're the new short and quick instances.

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