My question is if you could 2 heal fights in 10 man with two healers, and replaced one with a shaman, would that hold the group back? Assuming one wasn't already a shaman obviously. I see a lot of resto shaman so I don't think the spec can be that gimp.
Current games: WoW
Upcoming games: Camelot Unchained, Shroud of the Avator, Divinity: Original Sin
Sometimes I wonder if Blizzard looks at healer performance minus their CDs and finds them okay, and the guy who is responsible for shaman numbers didn't get the memo and included our CDs in our theoretical output...
just got kicked out a run because my heals where behind by like 10 %
I'm not as geared as your resto shaman, but I wanted to see the spell selection, cooldown usage and damage taken by your raid to see what it would take.
I also don't think that the weakness of Shaman throughput in early aggregate logs has very much to do with lack of healing and Mastery not giving much benefit; the issue is almost entirely fight mechanics being extremely unfavorable to the tools that we have to deal with AoE damage. Almost the entirety of the instance is dominated by spread mechanics (and so many of the spread mechanics in ToT are /range 8 or 12 not /range 5 like most raid fights in the past) and heavy movement. Shaman are very heavily reliant on Healing Rain for upwards of 40% of our output, and our output is flat out not competitive if fight mechanics prevent us from getting the most out of HT.
This isn't a "lol normal modes" issue or a "it will get better on harder content" issue; it's an issue with fight mechanics this tier and Shaman's lack of toolkit to deal with them in a competitive manner. That isn't going to get better on Heroic modes, and may even get worse if Heroic Modes require more spreading and more mobility. It's going to be a repeat of Firelands for Resto Shaman, and our viability is going to be very much in question with other healers getting high enough gear levels that MTT is more of a luxury than a necessity to the point that carrying a gimp healer won't be worth the raid utility we bring.
And there we are. A fight that shaman are made for and we can't even show up well on it. Hey maybe you are saying "But that is for the top 100. Clearly we can;t be expected to stand up to the best of the best. You are skewing data to prove a point". And to you i'd like to present the all parses version.
I've been a shaman since early TBC. I heal in a 10M with my friends. I've healed top 100 and have regularly ranked. I have a raid spot right now that is not in danger because my group requires a lust and we have no mage. However some days I just want to sit myself because I know the group would be better off if i did.
And that depresses me.
My shaman is just an alt that I run alt runs with and he seems to compete okay. One of my 3 main healers is a shaman and so is one of my two back ups and they seem to both do fine, specially as tank healers, plus Ascendance and Healing Tide are beasts in 10-man.
These 2 tiers seem to have a bunch of heal intensive mechanics with a (roughly) 1 minute cooldown so I've usually been able to tackle tight enrage timers by dropping a healer, keep only our disc and the shammy and then have'em going SS > Healing Tide > SS > Ascendance > SS > Repeat for said mechanics.
Yet, I do reckon Shamans do seem a tad weak without cooldowns and raid healing is very weak unless people are stacked up.
Much love to Indicate for creating. Eis' work
The class is crippled to the point were it's only bought for a few buffs, mainly MTT. Resto Shamans aren't competitive, even in stacked fights. Meters/raidbots are not all, but they give a very good indication of how a specc is doing. If you don't believe in them and if you think the specc is fine, it's all well and good, but stop coming in here telling others what they should believe and what they shouldn't.
Resto shaman is simply the worst healer by far (at least in 10 man). Nearly all the encounters this tier are completely HR-unfriendly. Even in some encounters that seemed to be ok for restoration shamans like Megaera, we are still weaker than other healers (not the holy priest of course). It's just pathetic the use CH has nowadays. As this tier is designed we are most ridiculous spec/class ever, that's the sad truth
what about that nerf to mana cost in HR? its a really clever change now that we must be perfectly spread in 85% of the encounters
do u expect any kind of buff ?
Resto shammy has been my favorite class/spec since my first Tauren back in vanilla, then switching to alliance in BC. I really don't give a flop if they're topping healer charts or whatever it is they use to gauge how good they are. It's just a really fun spec to play. I have one of each of the other healer types as well, and I much, MUCH prefer resto shaman. It's just so much simpler and more enjoyable for me. Granted, I only do 5 mans, and I have noticed the gear that drops for raids. Like someone else said, Spirit is good to a point, then it's almost worthless...but almost every piece of raid gear I've seen for caster mail has spirit on it, which means wasted itemization. But I guess that's another thread.
I think my absolute biggest complaint, though this goes for the class in general, is the castration of the totems that came with MoP. I LIKED being able to 'fire and forget' four totems at once. It meant I could focus more on what the hell I was doing than paying attention to four different CDs that constantly needed to be refreshed.(Remember seals and judgments for pallies in Vanilla? I do >.>)
I know this is slightly off topic, but I'm NOT currently happy with Enhancement. I've always been resto/enhance on my shams, and for some reason they just feel like wet noodles this expansion. They were a blast in Wrath and through most of Cata too. But I find myself even passing on gear for my enhancement spec because I just don't enjoy playing it right now.
i love my shaman.. but its sad that i'm being outhealed so much. i'm struggling to be on par with our holy paladin who doesnt even break a sweat.. ok we only downed the first two bosses (alt group for me) and council raped us many times over but i used to be the healer everyone depended on. now i'll probably get sorted out for fights which can be two-healed.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=11169&e=11649 - Jikun platform being solo-healed while the 2nd healer is flying and the 3rd one is dead
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r.../?s=592&e=1191 - most of twin consorts solo-healed after both other healers die to tidal wave.
In both still wasn't topping the meter, but the raid survived and landed a kill. If we are completely unviable, that would've never happened.
Endus, tibbee and Alltat (too bad we haven't seen him in a while) are usually the only voices of reason when it comes to resto. Everything else is just the typical ciclejerk of "oh, we have it really bad" that every class sub-forum is filled with (even disc priests during last patch were complaining). What I am advocating is just keeping a level head about this whole ordeal, it is just a game after all. Yes, there are flaws in our class, but writing quit posts over not topping healing meters is just silly.
Last edited by Blindlad; 2013-03-11 at 02:26 PM.
The viability thing is something that still needs to be evaluated. I don't think having MTT/Purification/Stormlash is going to necessarily be sufficient to make Resto Shaman worth raid spots if they really are going to be 30% behind. The extra mana that MTT gives to the rest of the healers is at best a wash if they each need to heal 6% harder to cover for the lack of throughput that Resto Shaman brings.
On top of that, how much fun is it really to play a spec that has no hope of being competitive with other specs but is only brought there to bring some token buffs? That is TBC level class design. My GM joked to me the other day that they should make the Shaman 4pc so you can drop MTT outside the raid instance and have it affect people inside (so you don't need to actually have a Resto Shaman in to get it). GC has said repeatedly that there is no longer a DPS/HPS output tax being applied to specs for the utility they bring to the raid because it is too difficult to quantify utility and every spec thinks they don't have enough. When you consider that Paladins and Disc Priests also bring a huge amount of utility, and Druids and Monks both bring some utility, there is no justification at all for this type of output gap.
And who the hell here said they will quit if they are not topping meters? I said I'll stop playing the game if they fix our specc, which is in dire need of help.
So far you have given no positive counter-argument whatsoever. All you have said is, don't look at meters, don't look at average output, don't whine, I have soloed healed, bla bla.
Come back when you have actually solo healed a boss and have a better argument of how our specc is fine. Till then, stop posting, cause it's all garbage and a waste of time for everyone here.
Rain is still going to be a large chunk of our healing, you just really have to manage it well. The capability of keeping up with most classes on different fights is there, it's just a hell of a lot harder to achieve with our quality of life being affected by spread out fights. I personally would rather play a class that has to work to compete, but as I said in my first post, we are seriously overdue some buffs.
Don't forget as well that Paladin output will be reduced significantly when they're forced to drop their T14 4 set, and for once we actually have a decent 2/4 set coming in T15.
It's a shame though, because we could be a viable healing option for most of these fights if just a few things were changed. But we're just going to be overshadowed again.
Last edited by Hamerfal; 2013-03-11 at 03:23 PM.