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  1. #41
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamerfal View Post

    Rain is still going to be a large chunk of our healing, you just really have to manage it well. The capability of keeping up with most classes on different fights is there, it's just a hell of a lot harder to achieve with our quality of life being affected by spread out fights. I personally would rather play a class that has to work to compete, but as I said in my first post, we are seriously overdue some buffs.
    Sometimes I wish I was still raiding 25-man... For healing a 10-man, I feel like absolute garbage these days. Like I said in that other thread, I'm hammering nails into the wall - using a screwdriver.

    At least in 25-man, I could be the mana tide bot in T11 when resto was in a similar state. In T12, we were okay but nothing to write home about until we reached the Ragnaros fiasco. And T13 in its entirety was an apology to restoration shaman far and wide. Raids are boring when they're designed to not screw up resto healing as we've all seen.

    Today, in 10-man, all I can do for the most part is spam single-target heals and use my CDs at the right time. But that's it. I wish that something that I'm doing was totally wrong and that people could just call me a noob for not seeing what I'm doing wrong, but I'm looking at logs, I'm looking at videos, I'm looking at what other shamans do, what really GOOD shamans do, and it's no different from what I'm doing. I just do all I can do and it feels like I'm not getting 'rewarded' enough for it, if you catch what I mean. So much effort is going into what we do and we get sad results. And then another healer comes along and tells you what an easy time they're having, how they don't have any difficulties and what difficulties could you as a shaman possibly have?

    In 25-man, shaman scrapes by as a support healer with mana tide and strong raid CDs, sprinkling in some light healing and keeping up rain. I've done this long enough, even in a server first guild during Cata. It's not brilliant, but it's good enough unless you get to something like Ragnaros.

    In MoP's 10-man, you'd better have a good anti-depressant within reach... because 'hammering nails with a screwdriver'.

  2. #42
    All these posts express exactly how I felt while 10 man raiding this tier.

    I looked I log and I think you can sum up resto shaman strengths and weaknesses that way :
    + Resto shaman seems to works relatively well at low mana regen, compared to other healers (but as soon as the other healers got more mana they heal for much more)
    + We're good whenever there's burst healing to do. But only if there's enough healing needed that the druid Tranquility (or other healers'CDs) doesn't snipe everything.
    + We're good when there's moderate damage over (a long) time on a stacked raid. Also works in a 25 man raid when you can drop healing rain on the boss.

    In all the other cases it seems like we're worse than other healers.
    So, no, we're not worthwhile. But yes it's very frustrating to play a resto shaman (like it was in T12) as you feel useless. And you don't need to look at logs for that, just look at health bars going up while you just had enough time to cast one single GHW)

  3. #43
    Stood in the Fire TheFNK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zahia View Post
    All these posts express exactly how I felt while 10 man raiding this tier.

    I looked I log and I think you can sum up resto shaman strengths and weaknesses that way :
    + Resto shaman seems to works relatively well at low mana regen, compared to other healers (but as soon as the other healers got more mana they heal for much more)
    + We're good whenever there's burst healing to do. But only if there's enough healing needed that the druid Tranquility (or other healers'CDs) doesn't snipe everything.
    + We're good when there's moderate damage over (a long) time on a stacked raid. Also works in a 25 man raid when you can drop healing rain on the boss.

    In all the other cases it seems like we're worse than other healers.
    So, no, we're not worthwhile. But yes it's very frustrating to play a resto shaman (like it was in T12) as you feel useless. And you don't need to look at logs for that, just look at health bars going up while you just had enough time to cast one single GHW)
    I agree with your points. My only gripe with them is that in those situations that we are good at we can still only be average or slightly below average comparatively to another healer. This is compounding the problems faced by Resto Shaman. When things are good for our mechanics we are average at best. When things are bad for our mechanics we are comparatively horrible. And as has been pointed out many times in this thread this tier is abysmal for our mechanics.

  4. #44
    Yes, I can also Vouch that resto shamans do lack throughput and our mana management is fine. Right now from comparing all other logs in regular ToT for the other 4 healers Resto shamans are on a average 10k - 30k Hps Lower then every other class. Just because of ethier stright up absorbs or raw throughput, In my case its throughput cause we dont have absorbs.

  5. #45
    Reforge\enchant\gem everything into spirit\crit. Have Healing rain down 24\7, and you'll win the meters. Unless you're playing 10man raid, then you are a very sad shaman

  6. #46
    I posted this on the US forums as well, but breaking down Raidbots numbers for all parses in the first week, this is where 25M Resto Shaman stand on a fight by fight basis.

    Jin'rokh - 5th place - 16% behind
    Horridon - 6th place - 28% behind
    Council of Elders - 6th place - 31% behind
    Tortos - 6th place - 39% behind
    Megaera - 6th place - 30% behind
    Ji-Kun - 5th place - 29% behind
    Durumu - 6th place - 35% behind
    Primordius - 6th place - 36% behind
    Dark Animus - 6th place - 33% behind
    Iron Qon - 6th place - 25% behind
    Twin Consorts - 6th place - 48% behind
    Lei Shen - 6th place - 31% behind


    It also isn't that there is one healer topping every fight like Disc were last tier skewing the variances. So far, Paladins, both priest specs and Mistweavers all have at least one fight that they top throughput on, making these numbers even more staggering and disturbing.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by tibbee View Post
    I posted this on the US forums as well, but breaking down Raidbots numbers for all parses in the first week, this is where 25M Resto Shaman stand on a fight by fight basis.

    Jin'rokh - 5th place - 16% behind
    Horridon - 6th place - 28% behind
    Council of Elders - 6th place - 31% behind
    Tortos - 6th place - 39% behind
    Megaera - 6th place - 30% behind
    Ji-Kun - 5th place - 29% behind
    Durumu - 6th place - 35% behind
    Primordius - 6th place - 36% behind
    Dark Animus - 6th place - 33% behind
    Iron Qon - 6th place - 25% behind
    Twin Consorts - 6th place - 48% behind
    Lei Shen - 6th place - 31% behind


    It also isn't that there is one healer topping every fight like Disc were last tier skewing the variances. So far, Paladins, both priest specs and Mistweavers all have at least one fight that they top throughput on, making these numbers even more staggering and disturbing.
    For 10man

    Jinrokh - 6th place, 21% behind. Apparently this is the Shaman niche fight.
    Horridon - 6th place, 29% behind.
    Elder Council - 6th place, 23% behind.
    Tortos - 6th place, 30% behind.
    Megaera - 6th place, 26% behind. Shaman niche fight again.
    Ji Kun - 5th place, 28% behind.
    Durumu - 6th place, 29% behind.
    Primordius - 6th place, 27% behind.
    Dark Animus - 6th place, 23% behind.
    Iron Qon - 6th place, 23% behind.
    Twin Consorts - 6th place, 32% behind.
    Lei Shen - 6th place, 34% behind.

    On average we are 27% behind.

    What's more alarming is that our numbers are dropping day by day while other healers numbers have pretty much stabilized, and our tier bonuses don't compare to other healers either.

    We need about 20%-25% healing increase.
    Quote Originally Posted by Culnar
    Sometimes people act like blizzard is their friend who betrayed them and now they're pissed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulpei View Post
    Actually the backlash from pandas is because alot of the people didn't grow up.

  8. #48
    On average, we are a ridiculous 32% behind in 25 man if you average the fights. The reason why the overall is less than that is Jin'rokh (the one fight where we perform borderline acceptable) accounts for a huge percentage of the logs. There are 20 times more Jin'rokh logs than Lei Shen logs.

    I'd agree; 20-25% across the board is needed. That would still leave us far enough behind that the whining about utility not being counted in the numbers wouldn't be as big of a factor but still buff our output to somewhat viable levels.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by tibbee View Post
    On average, we are a ridiculous 32% behind in 25 man if you average the fights. The reason why the overall is less than that is Jin'rokh (the one fight where we perform borderline acceptable) accounts for a huge percentage of the logs. There are 20 times more Jin'rokh logs than Lei Shen logs.

    I'd agree; 20-25% across the board is needed. That would still leave us far enough behind that the whining about utility not being counted in the numbers wouldn't be as big of a factor but still buff our output to somewhat viable levels.
    Are you really suprised? GC thinks the class is at the right spot right now.. He's never wrong..
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    Xaenicael - Resto Shaman - Bronze Dragon Flight

  10. #50
    as long we are good in pvp we wont see enough buffs in pve thats is life of shaman

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by mrinvisable2 View Post
    as long we are good in pvp we wont see enough buffs in pve thats is life of shaman
    Change our mastery. Done.

  12. #52
    Mechagnome Cai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamerfal View Post
    Change our mastery. Done.
    This a hundred times.

    I propose they switch out mastery and Resto Ascendance, just a weaker version by limiting the number of people to 5 instead of everyone.

  13. #53
    I love resto shaman, have played both Elemental and Resto for my 10man guild for a loooong time. Sometimes I'm our hybrid healer, other times fulltime resto or elemental. Anyway.....

    I like playing resto, and we have even more utility and buttons to push this expansion, however, I agree with basically everything stated here. Our throughput is low -- I heal with a disc priest and holy paladin and I can't keep up (which is reflected on Raidbots). Hard to compete with their absorbs, however we have lots of cooldowns and utility, which is nice. Would like to see a boost to our throughput and a change to our mastery, however.

    But regardless, still tons of fun to play. And like I said, we have even more buttosn to press and some more utility this expansion, which is really nice. Just because my throughput can't keep up doesn't mean it isn't "fun". Though, I wouldn't complain if we got buffs
    Last edited by tusker; 2013-03-14 at 08:35 PM.

  14. #54
    Herald of the Titans Irisel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cai View Post
    This a hundred times.

    I propose they switch out mastery and Resto Ascendance, just a weaker version by limiting the number of people to 5 instead of everyone.
    I would LOVE this.

    Rule of Thumb: If the healer's HPS is higher than your DPS, you're doing it wrong.

  15. #55
    Each day things are going worse. We are most useless class ever, simply pathetic.

  16. #56
    Mechagnome
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    The numbers are alarming indeed. Jin'rokh and Mageara normal are primarly stack fights, Magaera stack and spread, but Jin'rokh, especially on 25-man, has constant stack. That is pretty much the only fight where we can use Healing Rain like in T14. And we still are behind. I have seen and looked in the other topic aswell, but I honestly think that the 4 piece bonus will be used in the same way spirit link was in t13 for 10-mans.

    But that does not justify that we do need a buff. @Blindlad, I do look at parses and logs and they do tell something. Not everything. That you can be on par means probably more about your other healers then about you itself. Also, this is not called solo healing what you linked.

    The mastery change sounds good, but it will make us too powerful in pvp again. Hence I opt more for a Chain Heal buff, Chain Heal is barely ever used in pvp, but it is our core spell in pve. You can safely buff that.
    Much love to Indicate for creating. Eis' work

  17. #57
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    This isnt working tbh, got the call last night "Hey, any chance we could see you on the druid a bit more this tier". Raiding with a mistweaver and a paladin sure shows on the meters. Its not all about hps , far from it. But having trouble use half of your abilities is.

  18. #58
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    I'm gearing my disc priest, just in case my raid leader ever stops his "Honey, we'll make it work no matter what. Don't worry so much" attitude. I don't want to raid as a disc priest, but I want to have the option to. Just in case.

  19. #59
    Mechagnome
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    oeh, I hope I can tank then once again on my prot pally with Thunderfury, so much more fun with progress content >=)
    Much love to Indicate for creating. Eis' work

  20. #60
    I have tried crit, mastery, haste, and a mixture of each build and i still fall behind a druid and pally for every fight. I heal at 66% of the pallies healing and 85-75% of the druids output. Each of these classes have as much or more raid utility as my resto shaman. I have put my nose to the grindstone and tried to come up with ways to make myself useful but even my close friends that i raid with are struggling to carry me through progression. I have been a very good raider for 2 expansions. First wrath and now this one. In a progression guild i feel that shaman have a very diminished role in that if you don't bring them you have to melt all the mail resto pieces.

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