1. #1

    [Resto] Help with our shaman healer

    Hello Shaman forum.

    I'm looking to get some insight on helping our shaman healer improve. Through most of tier 14, it seemed like he was doing pretty well but his performance seems to be really falling off in the last 2 weeks. I do have some ideas why this is but I'd like to get some unbiased opinions first.

    Here are his armory and logs from horridon and council last night.
    Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ailla/advanced
    Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...m/healingDone/


    As a side note, I'm aware the priest we had last night was not amazing either, but that seemed to be more gear related than anything.

  2. #2
    ES uptime is fine, but from the looks of it the shaman only used Unleashed Fury twice on your 10 min kill of Horridon.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Kurzior View Post
    Hello Shaman forum.

    I'm looking to get some insight on helping our shaman healer improve. Through most of tier 14, it seemed like he was doing pretty well but his performance seems to be really falling off in the last 2 weeks. I do have some ideas why this is but I'd like to get some unbiased opinions first.

    Here are his armory and logs from horridon and council last night.
    Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ailla/advanced
    Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...m/healingDone/


    As a side note, I'm aware the priest we had last night was not amazing either, but that seemed to be more gear related than anything.
    Hi There!

    You'll probably get a 1001 different responses on this ranging from ZOMG Shaman healers are 10, 20, 30% behind all other healers to omg tell him to learn to play.

    My 10p contribution is this :- Firstly and foremost, he's healing with a Holy Paladin and a Discipline Priest both of which use absorbs to reduce the ammount of traditional 'healing' needed. As as Resto Shaman's mastery is most effective when players are low on HP (and your raiders aren't necessarily getting to low HP because of the absorbs up) your shaman won't be topping the meters any time soon.

    Secondly, 10mans are particualrly shaman friendly. Due to chain heal having a limited range (unlgyphed) and alot of t15 encounters requiring your raiders to spread out, both CH and Healing Rain (two of our stronger heals) have limited use. As such, i would get him to drop Telluric Currents glyph and go with Rip Tide. Personally i'm finding RT to be in my top heals on alot of encounters.

    The only other thing i can think of is that his earth shield uptime is low on some of your council attempts (60% in onecase). Definately needs to focus on this.

    In general it looks to me as if he's performing okay... he'll never be up there with your Paladin (or your priest when he's geared) but because of the way his mastery works he should be seen to be a valuable member of your team, even if it's now showing on meters. Chances are his mastery boosted heals have stopped a number of ppl dying when they were sub 50% health.

    Lastly here's a link to a blog that will show you the important thigns to look for on world of logs. http://www.cannotbetamed.com/2013/01...world-of-logs/

    GL with your progression,

    Rob

  4. #4
    Edit ost removed, double post. [
    Last edited by nicebikemate; 2013-03-14 at 07:31 AM.

  5. #5
    If he was doing fine in T14, the issue is probably the class moreso than it is him. Shaman are flat out performing terrible this tier to the tune of being an average of about 30% behind in both 10 and 25 man. The T15 fight mechanics just do not work well with the Shaman toolkit, and we do not have the tools necessary to heal the damage patterns competitively.

  6. #6
    Mechagnome
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    His haste is wrong. 3768 is exactly the breakpoint for HST and HTT which is also exactly wrong. Here is a well-known quote why:

    There is a known bug affecting the behavior of HTT and HST regarding haste. It appears that HTT and HST will gain or lose a tick near their haste breakpoints due to latency issues and might randomly award another tick at arbitrary haste levels. The second part has led the resto community to believe that the haste breakpoints are wrong which is not the case. For all intent and purposes the Haste section and its theorycrafting will reflect the intended behavior of both of these abilities.

    Personal observations (special thanks to Mimu for his valuable help) have proved the following. For more detailed information and the observed results refer to the discussion at #69. In short :

    1. HST and HTT breakpoints are correct however if you have above 50 world latency chances are that you are going to lose a tick if you are very close to your haste breakpoint more often than not.
    2. HTT breakpoints in practice will, to some extent, follow Healing Rains breakpoints. Note that both totems will not follow spell haste breakpoint calculation methods due to their fixed duration so there is no need for time adjustment in the formula (special thanks to Binkestein for his help on that). This means that even though HTT appears to almost coincide with HR breakpoints, by no means their formulas are the same.

    [b]As a final note. With the latency issues all of HTT and HST breakpoints are fluid and very unreliable. Just because you hit a haste breakpoint you are not guaranteed an extra tick. It is not therefore recommended to aim for these soft haste caps. For more information on how to reforge do read on. For in-depth explanation refer to #71.
    therefore, if he wants these ticks to happen, he should be at 3.9k haste to play it safer.

    Earth Shield actually has an uptime of 90.2% on the Horridon kill, so that is not bad. I can not say more then what already has been said, except that over a course of 10 minutes and if I count he could use his trinket 9 times for more spirit, he popped it only 7 times. But that is only nitpicky, unless he was low on mana. I'm talking about Heartwarmer Medaillon.
    Much love to Indicate for creating. Eis' work

  7. #7
    He could improve his HST uptime.

    In a 6 minute period, using Call of the Elements, you can drop a max of 13 HSTs as follows:
    0:00-0:15 (Use Call of the Elements immediately after dropping Healing Stream Totem)
    0:15-0:30
    0:45-1:00
    1:15-1:30
    1:45-2:00
    2:15-2:30
    2:45-3:00 (Call of the Elements should be up after this totem ends. Use again.)
    3:00-3:15
    3:30-3:45
    4:00-4:15
    4:30-4:45
    5:00-5:15
    5:30-5:45
    That's the max possible. With Recalling the totem, and with casting during this time, 10-12 is more realistic.

    Here are the HSTs dropped with the duration for each attempt, in the log you linked:
    Horridon Attempt 1: 7:08 with 9 HSTs.
    Horridon Attempt 2: 6:23 with 5 HSTs.
    Horridon Attempt 3: 10:20 with 7 HSTs.
    Horridon Attempt 4: 6:15 with 6 HSTs.
    Horridon Kill: 10:33 with 14 HSTs.
    Council of the Elders Attempt 1: 4:18 with 3 HSTs.
    Council of the Elders Attempt 2: 5:08 with 6 HSTs.
    Council of the Elders Attempt 3: 6:45 with 8 HSTs.
    Council of the Elders Attempt 4: 5:17 with 6 HSTs.
    Council of the Elders Attempt 5: 6:47 with 8 HSTs.
    Council of the Elders Attempt 6: 5:03 with 6 HSTs.

    Here's the same for your log from the 7th:
    Horridon Attempt 1: 4:19 with 4 HSTs.
    Horridon Attempt 2: 5:51 with 6 HSTs.
    Horridon Attempt 3: 3:57 with 5 HSTs.
    Horridon Attempt 4: 4:39 with 3 HSTs.
    Horridon Attempt 5: 2:25 with 1 HSTs.
    Horridon Kill: 11:48 with 13 HSTs.
    Council of the Elders Attempt 1: 1:08 with 1 HSTs.
    Council of the Elders Attempt 2: 2:41 with 2 HSTs.
    Council of the Elders Attempt 3: 2:53 with 3 HSTs.
    Council of the Elders Attempt 4: 3:42 with 4 HSTs.
    Council of the Elders Attempt 5: 1:41 with 0 HSTs.
    Council of the Elders Attempt 6: 2:01 with 2 HSTs.

    On a rough average, he could double the amount of HSTs cast. That's a big difference.
    In the log from the 7th, HST was the third highest healing contributor with the lowest overhealing of all spells.
    In the log from the 12th, HST was the second highest healing contributor with the third lowest overhealing of all spells.

  8. #8
    Field Marshal
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    Well, first of all...three healing with a hpally and a disc priest. That's never good for a resto shaman. Disc and Hpallies are on the top of the hps meters. I'm in the shame boat with our ten man. I have to perform at 100% all the time to compete, or even come close. And as someone else has said, this tier is horrible for rshaman. It's a well known fact that we're lacking. So with that said ...there's always room for improvement.

    I took a look at the longest attempt of Council of Elders, since that's where you guys got stuck on.

    His uptime on riptide is low. That's a high movement fight. There's no reason not to have that closer to 100%. As a result, his tidal waves uptime is low.

    Earth Shield uptime is low. That's harder to keep up on a tank because there's so much damage going out and so much going on, it's easy to forget to refresh it. But still, he should strive to have that closer to 100%. Even if it's just for the buff to healing for that target.

    The rshaman is balanced around our CDs. He needs to make sure he's abusing those things. His Ascendance had a lot of overheal, this could be avoided some if it's paired with spiritlink totem. Healing rain should be down before using Ascendance as well as having riptide on as many targets as possible. Also, I'm finding that I wait a few seconds for the damage to go out before I drop healing tide or ascendance to benefit from our mastery. I used to drop it as soon as ticks of damage went out, and a lot went to overheal.

    I'm not sure what you guys are doing as far as a strat goes with Council, but we're pretty stacked the whole time kiting out of stuff and moving out of the raid with the different debuffs. So, I'm able to drop my healing rain a lot. It doesn't look like he's able to do so. That gimps a rshaman. Try to manipulate fights to cater to stacking as much as possible.

    He should be using Totemic Recall instead of Telluric Currents for mana regen. Healing Stream totem is his #2 heal, which could be a completely free heal if he recalled it. And if mana is that much of an issue, he should try using more healing waves and less greater heals. He only used healing wave twice. Greater heal has it's place, but not if 25% - 30% of it is going to overheal.

    This is just my quick observation. Honestly though, he's not really doing horribly. I would say a lot of it has to do with the healing comp he's healing with being so OP. Also, the fights do not cater to a rshaman healing.

    When I compare our healing for Council to your logs of the same, the healing doesn't seem to be the problem. The hps is there.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-14 at 10:57 AM ----------

    Oh! And I just looked at his usage of Unleashed Life. He's even talented into Unleashed Fury. BUT the whole night of attempts and the kill, he only used UL 6 times. He needs to use that before healing rain and/or before a greater heal on the tank. The point is...it SHOULD be used!

  9. #9
    I find that UE is barely worth the cdg when you can't use it with HR. So I tend to spec into Primal Elementalist for the fights where I know I won't use HR often. The good thing while 3-healing fights with Primal Elementalist is that if you don't need the healing buff, your elementals can do a bit of damage if your raid dps is a bit low.

  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zahia View Post
    I find that UE is barely worth the cdg when you can't use it with HR. So I tend to spec into Primal Elementalist for the fights where I know I won't use HR often. The good thing while 3-healing fights with Primal Elementalist is that if you don't need the healing buff, your elementals can do a bit of damage if your raid dps is a bit low.
    Unleashed Fury has nothing to do with Healing Rain. Healing Rain is not affected by our L90 talents. So, for HR, it doesn't matter what you spec - unless you have your elemental channel on you, of course.

    UE = 30%, buff on the shaman (you), affects all spells, including HR.
    UF = 50%, buff on your target, stacks with UE, however only affects single-target heals on that same target. Does NOT affect HR.

    So... basically, you can save yourself the tome and just keep PE all the time.

  11. #11
    Mechagnome
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    Just a shame that the elementals cost so much freaking mana.
    Much love to Indicate for creating. Eis' work

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schadow View Post
    Just a shame that the elementals cost so much freaking mana.

    Nah, that's not it. With the glyph, you get the mana back, no prob (I love TR glyph). It's a shame that you can't recall HST while your ele is up without killing it as well. I always time it so that HST expires at the same as the elemental would, so I can recall both at the same time. Though I do lose one HST's mana during the ele's lifespan if I place that HST.

  13. #13
    Mechagnome
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    Well, at the end of the fights where you get your elementals back from cooldown, I usually don't have the mana to spend the cost of it. The begin is nice and is indeed easily retreatable with the glyph, but the end is what more concerns me.

    And I would like to have Totemic Restoration work with it, but I guess that will make it too powerful.
    Much love to Indicate for creating. Eis' work

  14. #14
    if u are aiming to pve my advise is to choose another class at least if u want to be useful.

  15. #15
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyand View Post
    if u are aiming to pve my advise is to choose another class at least if u want to be useful.
    He asked if a shaman healer in his guild can improve somehow. So your answer is not helpful at all.

    I doubt anybody who plays a shaman and writes in this forum is ignorant about the state the class is in. However, this isn't the point here. We may have difficulties, but there are still techniques and knowledge that we can pass around to perform better within the restraints that are imposed on us.

  16. #16
    The primal elementals are very buggy on a lot of T15 fights, with the buff beam constantly coming off (even when it isn't because you outrange it) when you move in and out of "puddle mechanics", and the general issues with being so far spread out that you have to worry about projecting the totem somewhere to prevent the elemental from despawning. They are annoying enough this tier that I have pretty much given up on using the talent and just go with Unleashed Fury. The only time I take Primal Elementalist is if I want to actually use the things to add DPS to the boss.

    Some suggestions relative to this tier.
    -This might be just me, but after looking at BL and Exodus Shaman and how they all seemed to be deliberately going for the 3764 haste threshold (extra totem tick for HST and HTT), I did some testing with a boomkin in a party with me (to get the 5% haste raid buff) and Ancestral Swiftness specced of course. I was consistently getting +1 HST and HTT tick every time (tried like 20 times) at that haste breakpoint, and consistently not getting it if I took off a piece of gear with haste on it, or dropped group. The latency based unreliability of those breakpoints might be fixed, making 3764 with AS worth considering.
    -Stone Bulwark Totem is really strong this tier because of the fight mechanics. On some fights, using it on near CD will add about 5% output, as well as improve personal survivability, because a lot of the mechanics this tier happen too often to have Astral Shift up for.

  17. #17
    Mechagnome
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    Further testing needs to be done still, tibbee, as there also has not been any official confirmication regarding this. Your testing may be valid (and I concluded the same), but it was stated earlier that this haste lag affects when you have more then 50 ms world lag, something a lot of people have.

    And you can just be lucky too Did you also tested it in a raid enviroment with heavy spell useage (like 25-man bursting)? There are a lot more then just a simple stand still in the city. What if you lag out for a few seconds?
    Last edited by Schadow; 2013-03-15 at 02:24 PM. Reason: Thought of something else.
    Much love to Indicate for creating. Eis' work

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