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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Pretty much this.


    People make racist/homophobic remarks in trade chat all the time, yes... but I don't think those people are actually "racists" or "homophobes" in real life; they're just using the internet anonymity to make remarks they'd never make in real life because they can.

    Isn't that a reflection of who they truly are?

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    The comments they make may be racist, or homophobic, but does that make the people racist, or homophobic, if they don't actually treat people of a different ethnicity/sexual persuasion differently in practice?
    Yes and no. You are still racist and homophobic if you are racist and homophobic and are simply quiet about it. However, simply making jokes about it and not intending to harm someone I feel is different. I've been not offended and made gay jokes as a gay man. It all depends on who is making the joke, how they do it, and whether or not they intend to harm someone or not with it.

  3. #43
    If white people could make black jokes, like black people are allowed to make white jokes, the world would be a better place. Racism shouldnt even be a problem. We're all people just with different colors. Ill never understand why people take offense to jokes about races. If people stopped taking offence to WORDS, life would just be easy.

    The homophobic stuff, usually kids under 15 act homophobic, use it as insults and such because theyre immature. When they get older they see how pointless it is and use it as a silly way of complimenting without seeming too girly, or just playing around for the hell of it. Other guys find it funny, and it might creep people out which is always a good laugh.

    As for the change up, younger people make gay jokes, grow up and to be more offensive bring racist and sexist jokes in to really get to people dumb enough to fall for it.

  4. #44
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adp View Post
    Isn't that a reflection of who they truly are?
    Not in that it makes them racist/homophobic; only in that it makes them a person with jokes that are in bad taste.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  5. #45
    I'm gay and I do not get upset at words like homo, gay, or faggot used derogatorily or to describe something in a negative light.

    I'm of the belief that words are just words, and they only have what power you give them. If I get upset at something somebody said it's because of the tone they chose or the message they are conveying - not their choice of vocab.

    For example if somebody calls me a faggot and is using the word to imply that I am somehow less of a person than them then yes, I get upset, but not that they used that word, but what they meant by it. Use in any other context, even in exasperation, doesn't bother me. Whatever power or meaning that word has for them is their prerogative, and not my problem as long as its not directed at me with negative intentions.

    We get way bent out of shape about this as a society, its crazy that we decided that certain syllables in certain orders are "bad", especially when its nothing more than a cultural phenomenon. Whatever words I choose to use express myself are nobodies business but my own unless I make it their business, and even then the context and meaning of my entire statement is what is should be considered and not use of certain words.

    ...and as usual P&T said it best:

    Slaying 8bit dragons with 6 pixel long swords since 1987.
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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Petur View Post
    If white people could make black jokes, like black people are allowed to make white jokes, the world would be a better place. Racism shouldnt even be a problem. We're all people just with different colors. Ill never understand why people take offense to jokes about races. If people stopped taking offence to WORDS, life would just be easy.
    Yes, I'm sure it's very easy to brush off words when you're a heterosexual white male.

  7. #47
    Pandaren Monk 1ns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post
    Its the Internet.

    /thread
    This.

    Also, theres a /ignore function - try it, it works great! *trying it out right now on trade creator*

  8. #48
    I never really agreed with the whole words only have power if you give them power thing. They are words. They mean things whether we like it or not. Of course their meanings are designated by our society. A person in a weak state (or a less thick hide // some people have different brain chemicals) though isn't going to go oh well this word has no meaning because I simply gave it meaning and I can take it away. These people are still going to be hit hard by it. Maybe the abuser should change their behavior instead of the abused changing their own inner reflections on a connotation of a word.
    Last edited by Shangshang; 2013-03-09 at 11:19 PM.

  9. #49
    I think everyone should thicken their hide to brush off words easily, specially if you're gay. It does take it's toll, but haters/trolls feed on negative reactions. Pose, turn, flaunt bitch. :P

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Redmage View Post
    I'm of the belief that words are just words, and they only have what power you give them.
    Eh... I agree and disagree. I mean, words can just be words on a personal individual level and only have what power you give them that way. But I also believe that language is the foundation of civilization and that the wide-spread use of certain terms has historically been used to scapegoat minorities and "foreigners" and turn popular opinion against them. And I do feel like that's still a problem for us.

    I'm also concerned about young people. People may say something in what's a harmless context between friends, but I've seen kids overhear that kind of subtle hate speech and turn it inward. Gay kids have the highest suicide rate among their peers and I feel like that contributes to it, even unintentionally. The "thicker skin" argument only works for certain personality types and people who have some kind of support system. Not everyone has that.

    I just think that the lulz and "cause I like saying it" aren't worth the price.
    Last edited by Roulette Kneebasha; 2013-03-09 at 11:20 PM. Reason: typo

    "There is a thin, semantic line separating weird and beautiful. And that line is covered in jellyfish." - Welcome to Night Vale.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalang View Post
    I never really agreed with the whole words only have power if you give them power thing. They are words. They mean things whether we like it or not. Of course their meanings are designated by our society. A person in a weak state though isn't going to go oh well this word has no meaning because I simply gave it meaning and I can take it away. These people are still going to be hit hard by it. Maybe people should change their behavior, and not the meaning of the word.
    Quote Originally Posted by Roulette Kneebasha View Post
    Eh... I agree and disagree. I mean, words can just be words on a personal individual level and only have what power you give them that way. But I also believe that language is the foundation of civilization and that the wide-spread use of certain terms has historically been used to scapegoat minorities and "foreigners" and turn popular opinion against them. And I do feel like that's still a problem for us.
    Yes but why do we attack the words, and bar the use of them in all situations, when it is the message the people are using the words to send that is the real problem.

    How is: "I hate faggots" any worse than "I hate homosexuals". By condemning the word, and not the message, you are saying that the second statement is somehow okay, or at least less bad, than the first. When its not.

    Slaying 8bit dragons with 6 pixel long swords since 1987.
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  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Redmage View Post
    Yes but why do we attack the words, and bar the use of them in all situations, when it is the message the people are using the words to send that is the real problem.

    How is: "I hate faggots" any worse than "I hate homosexuals". By condemning the word, and not the message, you are saying that the second statement is somehow okay, or at least less bad, than the first. When its not.
    I think we should condemn both.

    The casual use of hate speech feeds into the message, makes it more socially acceptable and is used as encouragement by genuine bigots. Attacking both is more useful, I think, than dismissing it just cause someone "didn't mean anything by it." The casual friendly fire slurs speak more of where we're placed in society, imo (e.i. as an insult/joke) than it does about the individual saying it.

    I'm not putting people who say "that's so gay" on the same level as say the Phelps family. But I do think they're feeding the fuel that enables people like the Phelps family. Does that make sense?

    "There is a thin, semantic line separating weird and beautiful. And that line is covered in jellyfish." - Welcome to Night Vale.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Boblet View Post
    Yes, I'm sure it's very easy to brush off words when you're a heterosexual white male.
    In the words of Louis CK: "I’m not saying that white people are better. I’m saying that being white is clearly better, who could even argue? If it was an option, I would re-up ever year. 'Oh yeah I’ll take white again absolutely, I’ve been enjoying that, I’ll stick with white thank you.' Here’s how great it is to be white, I could get in a time machine and go to any time, and it would be fucking awesome when I get there! That is exclusively a white privilege. Black people can’t fuck with time machines. A black guy in a time machine is like 'Hey, anything before 1980, no thank you, I don’t want to go.' But I can go to any time ... in the past, I don’t want to go to the future and find out what happens to white people, because we’re going to pay hard for this shit, you gotta know that ... we’re not just gonna fall from number 1 to 2. They’re going to hold us down and fuck us in the ass forever, and we totally deserve it, but for now: Weeeee! If you’re white and you don’t admit that it’s great, you’re an asshole! It is great and I’m a man. How many advantages can one person have? I’m a white man, you can’t even hurt my feelings! What can you really call a white man that really digs deep? 'Hey cracker!' ... 'Oh, ruined my day. Boy, shouldn’t have called me a cracker, bringing me back to owning land and people. What a drag."

    True story^

    OT: I will completely agree its hard for me to understand, maybe Im naive to it all. But words dont hurt me, and I dont think they should hurt anyone else. Life would just be more simple.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Redmage View Post
    Yes but why do we attack the words, and bar the use of them in all situations, when it is the message the people are using the words to send that is the real problem.

    How is: "I hate faggots" any worse than "I hate homosexuals". By condemning the word, and not the message, you are saying that the second statement is somehow okay, or at least less bad, than the first. When its not.
    Well it is less bad simply because of the inflections society puts on the word. That's just the reality of it. The messages people try to send when using these words are far more likely than other words to hold a negative connotation and hurt someone. And no we shouldn't ban the words, but I don't think were going to stop people from finding the words as personally hurtful. I guarantee there will always be words designated by society with a higher chance of being used in purpose to hurt people. That is never going to change no matter how much people philosophize in what power we give to words and why we bother giving them power in the first place.

  15. #55
    Stood in the Fire zerocoolhack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    you actually think homophobia no longer exists and suddenly everyones on the same level with it?

    Urm.. yeah, you might want to check the list of how many opening gay characters are in wow, and every time something shitty happens in the game, how long it takes for it to be refereed to as 'gay' in a bad meaning derogatory.
    What does it matter how many openly gay characters there are in WoW? You do know that words have different meanings. Like stupid, idiot, moron, and gay all have changed what they mean over the years.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Roulette Kneebasha View Post
    I think we should condemn both.

    The casual use of hate speech feeds into the message, makes it more socially acceptable and is used as encouragement by genuine bigots. Attacking both is more useful, I think, than dismissing it just cause someone "didn't mean anything by it." The casual friendly fire slurs speak more of where we're placed in society, imo (e.i. as an insult/joke) than it does about the individual saying it.

    I'm not putting people who say "that's so gay" on the same level as say the Phelps family. But I do think they're feeding the fuel that enables people like the Phelps family. Does that make sense?
    I fundamentally disagree, I think if you take a word and integrate it into society like that you rob the word of its power. By making the word "taboo" and controversial you are feeding the mentality and giving people a weapon to use against you. The word "bitch" used to be the worst thing you could call a woman, now its not so controversial, now "cunt" is the worst thing you can call a woman. By deciding this all we have done is made that word a "weapon" that can be used to harm people.

    See why this whole word play thing is just retarded? Its a futile uphill battle and we should all just stop playing the game. Disagree with the message, hate the meaning behind the words and not word itself. It shouldn't matter whether I call you a bitch or a cunt, what should matter is that i'm expressing that I feel you are a horrible woman.
    Last edited by Redmage; 2013-03-09 at 11:42 PM.

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  17. #57
    Legendary! vindicatorx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Urm.. yeah, you might want to check the list of how many opening gay characters are in wow, and every time something shitty happens in the game, how long it takes for it to be refereed to as 'gay' in a bad meaning derogatory.
    Sorry but this is bullshit. A) what do gay NPCs have to do with anything first of all? Secondly, when I was a kid we said shit was gay all the time and there was no intended insult to homosexuals at all. I still use the term fairly often and even the gay people I know have heard me say it. Same with fag, I call my best friend fag on a daily basis many when he is being a smart ass has nothing to do with sexual preference and I think it's laughable gays get upset about it. When will you learn I do not give a shit what you have sex with I didn't ask, don't want to know, and don't care.
    Last edited by vindicatorx; 2013-03-09 at 11:49 PM.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Redmage View Post
    I fundamentally disagree, I think if you take a word and integrate it into society like that you rob the word of its power. By making the word "taboo" and controversial you are feeding the mentality and giving people a weapon to use against you. The word "bitch" used to be the worst thing you could call a woman, now its not so controversial, now "cunt" is the worst thing you can call a woman. By deciding this all we have done is made that word a "weapon" that can be used to harm people.

    See why this whole word play thing is just retarded? Its a futile uphill battle and we should all just stop playing the game. Disagree with the message, hate the meaning behind the words and not word itself. It shouldn't matter whether I call you a bitch or a cunt, what should matter is that i'm expressing that I feel you are a horrible woman.
    We'll have to agree to disagree. Think of the n-bomb, and how it's use has been shamed alongside racism. Racism still exists, as will all forms of prejudice, but it's FAR less socially acceptable than it was. As is the word. Right now, it's slowly getting better but it's still socially acceptable to treat us as less than human in many circles. Casual hate speech excuses and enables that social acceptance of viewing us as "less". Same goes for sexism. Just cause it's common doesn't mean it's okay.

    I'm not pretending it's not an uphill battle, or even a possible one. But that doesn't mean it should be dismissed and ignored. Using gay as a synonym for everything crappy, lame, and horrible means something. Intended or not.

    I sympathize with how much easier it is to try to ignore it or even embrace it. That is easier and probably more fun. But I see it as contributing to the problem rather than even trying to make it better. I'd rather think about the implications and do my best to not contribute to the societal and lingual condemnation of minorities. I'm not always successful, in fact I'm often not, it IS hard. But that doesn't make it unimportant or not worth the effort.

    So yeah, we fundamentally disagree.
    Last edited by Roulette Kneebasha; 2013-03-10 at 12:10 AM.

    "There is a thin, semantic line separating weird and beautiful. And that line is covered in jellyfish." - Welcome to Night Vale.

  19. #59
    as long as there is a pvp factor to this game, there will be mean, terrible kids. pvp seems to attract the most vile people. i'm not saying remove it or anything, that would be stupid. just that more pvptards tend to be shitty teenagers.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcstunner View Post
    as long as there is a pvp factor to this game, there will be mean, terrible kids. pvp seems to attract the most vile people. i'm not saying remove it or anything, that would be stupid. just that more pvptards tend to be shitty teenagers.
    Lets all be agists instead.

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