Thread: Ban DPS Metres

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  1. #201
    I don't know about this topic. I see a lot of people saying that one who pulls 25k in a dungeon shouldn't be there. I don't exactly think that is a fair statement. Everyone has to start somewhere. And until blizzard just gives people gear that are adequate enough for grouped content without have to actually participate in that content to get the gear, there is not much one can do. I myself do pretty low dps on my warrior, and I don't think its fair to be criticized for that when I spend a lot of time reading forums and guides on how to better my game play. When an individual is doing all that they are capable of doing to try and better themselves there is no reason that anyone should try to belittle or judge that person. Besides, in a LFD, most occasions you don't know the person in that group. They don't know how much effort a player is or isn't putting in. Until they are actually certain how much effort is actually being put in, they have no room to judge someone based on their performance. Now, if a player is being voted to be kicked out because he's afking for parts of the fight or ignoring trivial mechanics of a fight that is different. But, if the other players notice that the person with low dps is keeping up with everyone, is standing out AOE or, avoiding damage that is avoidable, or just doing what he or she is supposed to on that fight he shouldn't be punished for trying his all.
    "Dang dude, watch some Swifty videos or something!"

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by zaheer12a View Post
    I'm not really sure how this went down, but if you were one of the people in dungeons doing 15k dps, then I totally understand why you got kicked and I would have voted yes too. People were doing 15k DPS two expansions ago... I don't expect people to come in there in quest greens and do 90k or something, but at least pull your weight instead of having 4 others just boosting you.
    People like you are the reason I rarely do random dungeons anymore. I'm sick of those damn elitists and their e-peen mania...
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  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by adamacula View Post
    I don't know about this topic. I see a lot of people saying that one who pulls 25k in a dungeon shouldn't be there. I don't exactly think that is a fair statement. Everyone has to start somewhere. And until blizzard just gives people gear that are adequate enough for grouped content without have to actually participate in that content to get the gear, there is not much one can do. I myself do pretty low dps on my warrior, and I don't think its fair to be criticized for that when I spend a lot of time reading forums and guides on how to better my game play. When an individual is doing all that they are capable of doing to try and better themselves there is no reason that anyone should try to belittle or judge that person. Besides, in a LFD, most occasions you don't know the person in that group. They don't know how much effort a player is or isn't putting in. Until they are actually certain how much effort is actually being put in, they have no room to judge someone based on their performance. Now, if a player is being voted to be kicked out because he's afking for parts of the fight or ignoring trivial mechanics of a fight that is different. But, if the other players notice that the person with low dps is keeping up with everyone, is standing out AOE or, avoiding damage that is avoidable, or just doing what he or she is supposed to on that fight he shouldn't be punished for trying his all.
    The OP isn't asking what level of DPS is sufficient for a dungeon run at X level. He got kicked from a group for bad play and doesn't dispute the fact that he was the lowest performer but instead of asking advice on how to improve he asks if we would be okay with the removal of the tools which identify bad play. I think pointing out single poor performers in 5 mans is laughable myself in an age where one decent damage dealer, a competent tank and healer is more than enough to get through the majority of runs, but I also take umbrage with people blatantly riding on the crowds coat tails and have no desire to improve. The OP doesn't want to try to improve, he wants to brush his poor performance under the rug with wishing for no meters.

  4. #204
    I've got 6 90's now and leveled them all on a mix of questing and dungeons, and can say for a fact that I've never seen anyone kicked for pulling over 20k. as a matter of fact I've seen quite a few at 10-15k in 90 heroics who won't get kicked...and when I've brought up their low DPS in chat, not even getting to the point of trying to kick, I got shouted down by the rest of the group telling me to give them a break because "they are probably new and still learning".

    so yeah, I'm going to back the majority voice in this thread and say it's not the meter's fault when people get kicked, it's the RL people on the other end of the meter.

  5. #205
    To OP: people have the right to kick you so that instead they get a better dps that wont hold them back.

    4 people > you

  6. #206
    Herald of the Titans Bryntrollian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mersynd View Post
    Instead of Blizzard banning meters, they should make an IQ test requirement to queue for LFD or LFR so that people who can't understand a 5 button rotation will not hold the group back. How about that
    Honestly, I don't remember seeing anything about maximizing inquisition uptime when I took my IQ test...
    Synek - best rogue in the world


  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    The problem isn't the DPS meters, the problem is assholes.
    Gearscore suffered from the same problems. It had analytical potential, but people saw it as nothing more than a number = skill addon.
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Q: But who are the forum QQers going to QQ at now?
    A: They'll find another name and still miss the point that Blizzard designs as a collective.

  8. #208
    Back when I started, I sucked. People said that and I understood. I read guides and got better. Spending a few hours reading and practicing isn't that difficult compared to what you will gain from that

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Gande View Post
    The meters are as good as people using them.

    Many people using meters use them solely to improve themselves, testing better openers and different talents etc.

    Surround yourself with not awful people, or use the meters how they were originally intended, bettering yourself so these people won't kick you.
    Nope.

    DPS meters are used by all top end progression raiding guilds because some fights are a pure DPS check / race (Heroic Spine, Heroic deathbringer , Festergut, Brutalus, Patchwerk etc..) and if you cant tell who is doing less dps than they should you can't replace them to progress / adress the issue.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Path View Post
    Threads like these are good for identifying players with an Elitist Mentality.

    The "you must have X DPS or don't bother playing the game LOL" crowd is a disease in this game.

    The elitist mentality has its place.

    When I'm raiding heroic content everyone had better be performing.

    I don't care about people underperforming in 5 mans and lfr, that isn't content that's aimed at or tuned for people who care about their performance.

  11. #211
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrubs-go-home View Post
    imo dont ban dps metres cus it wont help.

    What they should really do is ban scrubs from playing this game.

    That would be wonderful!
    If I were to ban anything, I'd ban people with the kind of attitude this dude shows. But, then again, I'm not a self-righteous asshole so I'd just let them stay and ignore their sorry asses.


  12. #212
    Herald of the Titans Bryntrollian's Avatar
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    I used to run heroic dungeons just to carry those guys and always topped the dps as the tank.
    Synek - best rogue in the world


  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Commander View Post
    To OP: people have the right to kick you so that instead they get a better dps that wont hold them back.

    4 people > you
    Have fun having an infinite CD on the VTK button, then!

    And to think people bitch about that CD being there! If the people who'd say "yes, I'd kick you, you scrubby noob! l2p" would have no CD to curtail that, we would never be able to run any LFD/R!

    I think this thread just proves why the VTK CD is necessary!

    Oh, and about class and DPS potential, didn't Blizz say something about PVP always gonna be unbalanced? How do you NOT think that some classes are not going to be up there in DPS potential in PvE, either? Noxxic has Frost Mages being on top of Max DPS in full 496 ilvl gear ( http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/maximum ). Of course, this not depending on the gear an individual player has or how they enchanted/gemmed/reforged their gear (in other words, it's assuming that the gear was cared to according to the Simcrafts that they did). You can't say that all classes can do X DPS at any given time because you're not taking into account gear, player's understanding of the class, what they have to do during the fight (that person that can't get over 30k might be a melee that can't get close to a boss because the tank refuses to kite him out of bad shit on ground...something else never considered here), whatever.

    You'll also have to consider that Blizz just did a huge patch and buffed/nerfed things (how many times are Warriors going to get nerfed before Blizz gives them a break?), so many players are trying to adjust to the changes to their classes, as well (and many of us didn't do jack shit on the PTR, mind you). If I'm only pulling 20k on my Fury warrior because I didn't realize that Blizz changed something that changed everything about the right rotation on Fury warriors, then that'll be something that I have to fix, but it's something that isn't going to wipe a group if I'm also following all the mechanics of the fight (I'm still contributing and pulling my weight at that point because I understand that I do 0k DPS if I'm dead, and 20k is better than none).

    This is why, while important, you can't judge anyone solely on how much DPS that they're doing in a fight!
    I hear it's amazing when the famous purple stuffed worm in flap-jaw space, with the tuning fork, does a raw blink on Hari-Kari rock! I need scissors! 61!

  14. #214
    I wouldn't put too much faith in numbers from noxxic.

  15. #215
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamacula View Post
    I don't know about this topic. I see a lot of people saying that one who pulls 25k in a dungeon shouldn't be there. I don't exactly think that is a fair statement. Everyone has to start somewhere. And until blizzard just gives people gear that are adequate enough for grouped content without have to actually participate in that content to get the gear, there is not much one can do. I myself do pretty low dps on my warrior, and I don't think its fair to be criticized for that when I spend a lot of time reading forums and guides on how to better my game play. When an individual is doing all that they are capable of doing to try and better themselves there is no reason that anyone should try to belittle or judge that person. Besides, in a LFD, most occasions you don't know the person in that group. They don't know how much effort a player is or isn't putting in. Until they are actually certain how much effort is actually being put in, they have no room to judge someone based on their performance. Now, if a player is being voted to be kicked out because he's afking for parts of the fight or ignoring trivial mechanics of a fight that is different. But, if the other players notice that the person with low dps is keeping up with everyone, is standing out AOE or, avoiding damage that is avoidable, or just doing what he or she is supposed to on that fight he shouldn't be punished for trying his all.
    You can buy a FULL set of ilvl 364 gear from a freaking vendor in jade forest. With such ilvl someone should EASILY do around the 20 to 30k DPS which is appropriate for lvl 85. You're also able tto get even higher ilvl gear when you're lvl 88 from a vendor, making it even easier to catch up. After that just do more quests in dread wastes and you'll be decked in 410-430 ilvl gear.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    The problem isn't the DPS meters, the problem is assholes.
    No the problem is a lack of patience for players that choose not to take the time to do a little research on the toon they play before Q'ing up to an 85-90 dungeon. When the OP says "here is my problem don't you have to gear to get better gear to higher your dps" he is openly stating that he does not have the first clue what DPSing on his toon actually entails somthing as simple as a proper rotation can make all the difference in the world not to mention gems, enchants, reforging, etc.. The fact is there are allot of other options to increase dps not just gear and had the op taken the time to look at say Noxxic.com he would likely have had enough dps to not get kicked just from the knowledge he had on the workings of his toon. In my opion to label the players that do not want to take time out of their day to wipe/carry other players as "ass holes" seems to me the ass hole thing to do. that being said we all started somwhere and a gentle nudge in the right direction is far better than the group kick.

  17. #217
    Herald of the Titans Theodon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrus Vakarian View Post
    People like you are the reason I rarely do random dungeons anymore. I'm sick of those damn elitists and their e-peen mania...
    How is it unfair to expect people to make a run a little quicker by trying and not being a deadweight? Doing 15k DPS can only be from a lack of actually trying to play the toon well enough, as more than that is achievable very easily. Having reasonable standards isn't elitist behaviour. Elitist behaviour would be expecting everyone to be doing close to an individuals DPS, when that person is ilevel 500+

    If you think it's acceptable to do that DPS then that is your opinion. Not everyone is going to be happy with the feeling that they are doing almost all of the work in the dungeon so you can benefit, and being upset because they aren't happy with it is a shitty attitude.
    Last edited by Theodon; 2013-03-11 at 02:15 AM.

  18. #218
    If your DPS is that low, then it's because you're failing to use DPS Metres to improve your ability with your character.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by zaheer12a View Post
    I'm not really sure how this went down, but if you were one of the people in dungeons doing 15k dps, then I totally understand why you got kicked and I would have voted yes too. People were doing 15k DPS two expansions ago... I don't expect people to come in there in quest greens and do 90k or something, but at least pull your weight instead of having 4 others just boosting you.
    Agree^^. I pulled this much in ICC, gear scaling or not thats piss poor dps for a 90 even if you're in questing greens and blues.
    Bane

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by ironfists View Post
    Agree^^. I pulled this much in ICC, gear scaling or not thats piss poor dps for a 90 even if you're in questing greens and blues.
    There was a 30% buff to your health and damage in ICC, but it was possible if you were very geared and were very good to put that sort of number without artificial help.

    I'm not sure boasting or pointing out what was possible several expansions ago is constructive. The point is people use DPS meters poorly, but they are a great source of information. In today's heroic environment you might as well put them away... I actually was in a group recently where 2 of the DPS couldn't do much more than 5k, it involved a feral dps who thought it was fun to play in bear form. Point being (besides it taking longer than it should) we cleared the 5 man with very little difficulty. You're starting to find it difficult to come up with a valid argument about pulling your weight in those instances because I'm sure some tanks could solo them.

    Where I get annoyed is the percieved lack of respect for other people's time. It's something that probably doesn't occur to the average player, perhaps they like spending their alloted wow time doing a 5man or whatever group activity it might be. Me on the other hand would like to get several things accomplished which means the time investment in a specific activity is important to me. So what annoyed me about the example above is a 15min instance took 30mins and I feel mytime in game is valuable and was being wasted by those who really didn't care about my time.

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