Thread: Ban DPS Metres

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  1. #341
    Sorry but I'm not an asshole. I just don't like playing with scrubs... fair enough? I can pull nearly 35k on a few bosses on a 88 hunter, you should be able to do more on a level 90...

  2. #342
    Performing poorly numbers wise because your gear is shit is understandable. I never call names on recount for that. I remember how INCREDIBLY SHITTY my DPS were at fresh dinged 90 lvl hunter which had 9% Crit, opposed to 40% unbuffed in DS HC gear @ 85.
    I don't stand however lack of competence, not following simple instuctions or plain botting / afking.

    Freshly dinged 90 doing 20k dps is one thing. But afk bot doing 3k because it cannot push the damn button on Taran Zhu (so 90% of his attacks miss), bleh ban them all.

    The math disparity between fresh dinged 90 and heroic raider wanting VP will grow overtime into the expansion, because we are experiencing really steep ilvl inflation. The jumps of ilvl between tiers and gimmicks (heroic elite, thunderforged, heroic thunderforged, yadayada) are immense and if it goes at this rate I pictrue myself easily pulling 200k+ sustained DPS at the end of siege of orgrimmar heroic. I pull 100k-ish now, and i have only 503 item level without a single HOF/TES heroic item equipped. My gear is only upgraded 496s and MV heroic items. It increased by almost 100% from "baseline" 463 full blue equipment - pulling 60k on normal Feng first reset was acceptable, 70k was godly, achievable with expensive BOEs and 80k-costing DMF trinket.

    It will propably end up like late dragon soul - me queueing into end time, with 4 people around 370-ilvl (myself 407 BIS) i'm doing 70% of the damage. Could duo this with healer. And it was okay, people wanting only currency speed it up for fresh players, I'm not mad at doing 70% of dmg solo as long as the rest of that party cares to try.

  3. #343
    Herald of the Titans Bryntrollian's Avatar
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  4. #344
    The nice thing about meters like Recount is that you can see what abilities people are using.

    Low DPS because of cruddy gear? I don't mind carrying.

    Low DPS because someone's using autoattack and maybe an ability every 10-20s? /votekick

  5. #345
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    How exactly does expecting a dps to out damage a tank during a single target fight automatically entitle players who do not wish to involve themselves with other players who do not meet minimum expected requirements of their class to be called "assholes" ?
    You've misunderstood what I was saying. I am not calling any specific people assholes, I am saying that any abuses that arise out of DPS meters are the fault of those that abuse them, not the tool itself. Hypothetically banning DPS meters is misguided, since the source of the problem lies with the players.

    Of course, I do think it's a little petty to boot someone out of a leveling dungeon that you're beating just because their DPS is behind, since those are generally the avenues by which people learn how to play correctly. But that's just me.

    (and fwiw, using curse words is not against the board's rules)
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  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    AFKing = 0 DPS = kick.

    If someone isn't AFK and are doing relatively low DPS, it's not OK to kick them because they still have some quest greens on them.
    But I try to get gear, so I do the right think, thus you should not kick me.

    See what I did?

    Yeah... please use your brain in future arguments...

  7. #347
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BloodGutter View Post
    I'm sorry but if you make it to lvl 90 without grasping a basic fundamental knowledge of your spec's rotations and spells to use, then why should I bother carrying such a player?
    You were there once.

    Also, you're only carrying if they're contributing nothing to the group. If they are, then you're just "picking up the slack" (in need for a better term).

    Quote Originally Posted by BloodGutter View Post
    Generally I do point out such a player's low DPS and if they give a response apologizing or explaining they're new, I offer tips for a DPS increase if I'm familiar with their spec and let them stay in the run. However if you're going to ignore me or even worse start flaming and arguing with me then I will initiate the vote kick.
    I understand why you'd kick for flaming, but nothing else.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-11 at 10:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Firecrest View Post
    What I keep trying to explain to you is that your fun is not the only thing that matters here. When your fun interrupts the fun of 24 other people, you’re in the wrong.
    If Johnny's enjoying himself, and you're not enjoying yourself with Johnny's relatively low DPS, the obvious course of action is for you to teach Johnny how to improve his DPS. That way you start enjoying yourself and Johnny continues to enjoy himself.

    What you're suggesting ends up with the lack of enjoyment being removed from you and placed on Johnny, which is selfish indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firecrest View Post
    This actually makes your point even less valid. If 3 hours is six times less than what’s need, Johnny is even more of an asshole for not putting forth the modicum of required effort.
    So, now, slow people are assholes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Firecrest View Post
    See, I made it this far before I noticed that you were intentionally modifying my quotes with things I did not say. Before, I thought you were just wrong. Now, I see that you’re actually being malicious. You’re not worth any further discussion.
    I was just removing the exaggerations from your posts. You just seem to flame everyone doing less DPS than you, so I'm glad you don't wish to respond to me.
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  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    Training dummies.

    It doesn't take all that long to learn a PvE rotation. On PTR, I can completely gear up and learn a new class well enough to pull competitive DPS in under an hour.
    Training dummies just sit there, they don't hurl abilities, make you move, etc. If it was as simple as doing training dummies, everyone could easily become a world class raider.

  9. #349
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karon View Post
    But I try to get gear, so I do the right think, thus you should not kick me.
    AFKing is identical to not trying, so your argument is fallacious.
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  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by Crym View Post
    You can level to 90 easily without doing anything with a group. Solo-play for most classes is significantly different from optimal group play. If a player is a jerk about learning I don't disagree, but sometimes all it takes is someone explaining a few things as you go. If everyone had the attitude of "if they didn't learn what they need to be effective on the way to 90 there's no hope" a lot of now good players would have quit a long time ago.

    I realize you are saying you're teaching people unless they're rude, so that's good. However, the assumption that getting to 90 means they probably know what they're doing is dangerous.
    I agree with this. Just getting to 90 doesn't necessairly teach you anything you need to know to be a competent end game player. Besides the differences between solo and group play, many people level as DPS and then switch to Tank or Heal for raiding.
    Last edited by Firecrest; 2013-03-11 at 11:15 PM.
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  11. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firecrest View Post
    I agree with this. Just getting to 90 doesn't necessairly teach you anything you need to know to be a competent end game player. Besides the differences between solo and group play, many people level as DPS and then switch to Tank or heal for raiding.
    Agreed. That and some of us have alts that we just are having fun playing around with, trying new things. We all start out somewhere. Reading isn't the same thing as doing.
    When I que up for a dungeon on my raid geared toon, I just get through it. I dont care about the meters. As long as we are making progress, and not wiping, I could care less. I hope that when I que up on my barely geared toon, someone has that same mentality about me.

    Besides - as long as people aren't wiping or afking. It really shouldn't be a big deal. Take a sip of that drink you prefer and relaaaxxxx.
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  12. #352
    Legendary! Luko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theendgamelv3 View Post
    Training dummies just sit there, they don't hurl abilities, make you move, etc. If it was as simple as doing training dummies, everyone could easily become a world class raider.
    Haha, let's be honest with ourselves here. There's an overwhelming amount of players in this game today that have no idea what their rotation is supposed to be or give two shits. They don't care. The training dummies have been there for years, these players don't care. They haven't practiced on stationary targets let alone moving enemies. It's just not important to them.

    Even if perfecting your rotation on a dummy in town was all that was required for perfection, we'd still have plenty of people who simply don't give a damn. Just the way it is.
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  13. #353
    Learning to play a toon without meters is like trying to paint a house blindfolded. You could do it, but why?

    As for your particular situation, that's just the typical lfr/dungeon heroes getting off on thinking they're better than someone.
    Best not to take it to heart.

  14. #354
    How can we see what players are doing without DPS meters ?
    Peoples could simply rollface or spam the same touch all the time, no one could notice it, sry but if your DPS is that low ... well this kick is legit.

  15. #355
    I don't mind people being bad too much. I just dislike people who are not active with pressing their buttons.

    So many times I see players turning around their own axis. They must be looking at the view or something, I don't know. They're doing everything except contributing to the run.

    Healers I have no beef with doing that as long as they heal when needed. Healing for the sake of (over)healing isn't required. And tbh let's not go there were healers also have dps abilities etc. Some healers get tunnelvision about their dps and neglect the actual task they were invited for.

    So yes those people have low dps and low activity. And just auto-attacking isn't good either (probably shows in the activity list).

    Last time I saw a paladin something with Hendrik (not his full name) in his name. He had a 0.02 activity on the boss before Algalon. At Algalon he "fell" through the floor. So I confronted him about it. He told me to sftu (I wasn't rude to him btw) because it was LFR and no one cared etc. And so on Emperors he just walked around between the 2 big mobs autoattacking. He was a healer though and the healers were struggling like crazy. In the end 60% had died during that fight, meanwhile mr holy paladin was running around doing absolutely nothing but throw a heal every now and again to make sure he didn't die. I am not a guy who asks for a kick from the LFR or something. All I did was confront him and got trashtalk in return.

  16. #356
    The dps meters aren't the problem here it's douchbags, dps below 90 doesn't matter and they were just being dicks. Hell it was probably one person being a dick with everybody else blindly clicking yes on the vote to kick.

  17. #357
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Healers I have no beef with doing that as long as they heal when needed. Healing for the sake of (over)healing isn't required. And tbh let's not go there were healers also have dps abilities etc. Some healers get tunnelvision about their dps and neglect the actual task they were invited for.
    I got kicked from a dungeon once for being last on the dps meters... as a healer (while indeed healing too, no one died at all). People just don't notice what it says, they only see one dps bar is half of the other bars, so he's bad, so lets kick him. They must have wondered why finding a new dps took so long

    Anyway, meters are useful. I played SWtOR for a while and dungeons were hell. We wiped a lot and had no way of telling why. Not enough dps? Not enough healing? Taking too much avoidable damage? No idea. Like banging your head to a wall and hoping it would break in the end. You just have to ignore the times you get kicked because someone doesn't understand how to use the meters.

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by mmines View Post
    The dps meters aren't the problem here it's douchbags, dps below 90 doesn't matter and they were just being dicks. Hell it was probably one person being a dick with everybody else blindly clicking yes on the vote to kick.
    Read the thread please (perhaps not all pages but atleast 4) so you wouldn't come up with this. It is actually the players who do badly. Examples in this thread are plenty. You cannot possibly want to be playing with people who are 89 and do worse dps then 2 expansions ago. You do not want to be in a party with people who are 89 and the rest 85/86 and do far less then them. Then there is something wrong with that player. And it even doesn't have a flying F to do with a rotation. It has everything to do with just not pressing any buttons.

    activity is the key

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-12 at 04:18 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Amerissis View Post
    I got kicked from a dungeon once for being last on the dps meters... as a healer (while indeed healing too, no one died at all). People just don't notice what it says, they only see one dps bar is half of the other bars, so he's bad, so lets kick him. They must have wondered why finding a new dps took so long

    Anyway, meters are useful. I played SWtOR for a while and dungeons were hell. We wiped a lot and had no way of telling why. Not enough dps? Not enough healing? Taking too much avoidable damage? No idea. Like banging your head to a wall and hoping it would break in the end. You just have to ignore the times you get kicked because someone doesn't understand how to use the meters.
    I think the shock was more to like: why am I not getting healed (if they continued right after kicking you). But yes those people were douchebags

  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    Seriously. A whole lot of people commenting on this thread? You have bad, hate-filled attitudes, and you should feel bad, too. Stop pretending you're not elitists and not selfish. Because, honestly? A lot of you are, and a lot of you are the problem with this game's toxic community.
    You know what has contributed more to the toxic community than anything else? "Casuals". REAL casuals are players that don't have time to commit to the game. These are people who are still good players, would like to raid, but just aren't able to raid (or don't raid very often; maybe 1 or 2 days a week). They might do arenas, but they only do them for fun. "Casuals" are bad players who don't want to take the time to learn how to improve. They feel that because they pay $15/month, they are entitled to be carried through content. They don't feel that they need to improve, but that the community around them should improve to accommodate.

    Yes, everyone was a noob at some point. Everyone sucked at every game at some point. The big difference is that some people sit down and try to be better. They actually made an effort (as small as it is) to become better. People like the OP and yourself, though, have such an inflated self worth that you think your time is not only more important than everyone else's (because you won't take the time to improve), but you're above learning something so simple as a priority queue or DPS rotation. "Casuals" tend to be some of the most entitled wankers in WOW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firecrest View Post
    Good god. Fifteen pages of bad players being mad they're getting called out and everyone else trying to explain that meters are what you make of them.



    How can a person who has absolutely no measurable information regarding their sucess classify as "not lacking in any way"? That just... Makes no sense.

    They're lacking information.



    You say you know your class. But how do you know your class without any objective measurement whatsoever? How do you know that you're living up to your full potential? How do you know that you're not under (or over) estimating your skill?

    Even if we grant that you're a good player, how to you get from "good" to "great" without any performance data?



    The real assumption here is yours. You ASSUME that you play well. You don't know. Without data, you could be doing BC era DPS for all you actually know.



    The person you quoted said none of those things. The point he made is that, without meters, you are blind to knowledge that could help you. Willingly blind even. Kinda like how you blinded youself to the point he was making in the first place.
    You keep talking about improvement. The people in these kinds of threads that are whining about DPS meters aren't interested in improvement. They're interested in hiding from accountability.

  20. #360
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    I think they should definitely be banned in LFR/LFD, since there is absolutely nothing positive that they can contribute under those circumstances. If you need to know your own DPS there are addons that can do that for you without showing other people's.

    But in actual real raiding I can definitely understand their necessity and usefulness so they should be allowed to be used in those kinds of environments.

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