Thread: Ban DPS Metres

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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    It's not really analogous, though, since a lot of those alternative situations (like people's prior comparisons to guns and warheads), since DPS tools are an inherently benign tool, of benign creation, with benign utility. You can't say that about a nuclear bomb.

    The problem really isn't the DPS meters. All they do is collect data from the game and display it in an easy to read format. It's not the fault of the tool if particular assholes use it for malevolent purposes.

    I'm pretty sure if a good, honorable, caring person was in charge of a nuke it'd never be used or only in very extreme situations - perhaps to blow up or derail an asteroid, or fight an alien invasion. etc.

  2. #362
    Meters aren't the problem. Even without them, if your damage is terrible -- people are going to notice and kick you anyways.

  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpioz View Post
    I wish Blizz would ban dps metres, for a example i was a nearly level 90 pally not very good geared as i wanted to start dungeons to get gear to raid, so was happily going through temple of the jade serpant to get new gear and was kicked for having low dps i was below tank and druid dps if i recall, but here is my problem dont you have to gear to get better gear to higher your dps i have to say it put me off doing dungeons and just do scenerios now i never had this problem in tbc or lich king instances
    As most have said, it's not the meter's fault. Far as kicking someone for low dps, it's been going on since LFG T-Virus. All you can do is requeue and not worry about it too much. Most people are ignorant nowadays.

  4. #364
    I don't enjoy watching that i got lower dps than another hunter in my raid, but i use it to improve myself so it is good for me.
    I see your problem tough. In the first hc i entered after dinging 90 7 days after launch i got told that my dps sucked. I explained that i just dinged and had only greens, he ignored me and contiuned fighting. They could atleast excuse themself for acting like an idiot.

  5. #365
    How did this thread make it 19 pages?

  6. #366
    Only on my 3rd 90 now, but the best way so far for each character has been to hit 90, queue for the Arena scenario and get your 450 weapon then knock out some scenarios in between instance runs. As a paladin, you're going to be somewhat screwed by getting 3 different specs of gears, unlike say a hunter or rogue who will get purely dps gear.

    To be honest, gear generally isn't what holds people back; it's simply not knowing how to play their class, or not caring and wanting to coast on the efforts of others. I shouldn't be able to take a fresh 461 DK into the first two LFRs and place in the top 5 dps - but there I am. It can't be that everyone below is worse geared because we all have to make that minimum ilevel - it's more likely they either a) don't know how to play b) don't know how to install a rotation helper, c) don't care and are coastng. I'm pretty easy going, it's only a game, but when I'm out DPSing a warrior with Starshatter and the Sha axe while I have my upgraded 471 blue weapon - you can see where that guy or gal might need to get kicked to smarten them up.

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickmanning View Post
    How did this thread make it 19 pages?
    There's enough hard feelings about jerks who use DPS as an excuse to kick decent players who just aren't overgeared for content to make one side speak up. There's enough people who have run with jerks who expect to be carried through content for rewards without putting even the minimum of effort forth to help the team (and in some cases aggressively refuse advice) that the other side has something to say.

    Add to that, members of both sides tend to assume the other side is only saying that because they're the "jerk" that riled them up in the first place and... well... 19 pages.

  8. #368
    Every Tuesday I do a couple heroics on my holy paladin, and unless I get a heroic geared DPS, I always top the meters on every pull, trash included.

    And yes I use it to kick people with 429 ilvl, I had to grind my way up to 450, you should too; I'm not wiping due to your incompetence.

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by Basemath View Post
    Really though, you sound like a solid fellow, original poster, who is willing to learn. Like the others above me cleared out, you probably fell victim to the scum of WoW. \.
    And I must've missed the part where he indicated he was a solid fellow, willing to learn. All I got from the OP's post is: "ban damage meters because I got kicked out of a group. " I don't know, maybe it's totally how he tells it, but I can also say in all my years of playing wow, on many many different alts I've never gotten kicked out of a dungeon group (other than if I got DCed and they didn't want to wait around which is totally fine). I'm not saying this to show how amazing I am, more like if you are at least adequate, at least mediocre, chances of you getting kicked are extremely low.

    P.S. I should also mention that running recount in dungeons is often a way to tell me who is afking the entire run. Since heroics tend to go rather fast I am too busy doing my job and sometimes don't even notice someone putting another player on follow and just going afk for free valor. I kick those people immediately unless they excuse themselves beforehand and say they need to go afk. Yes, when I'm queuing by myself on my dps or with friends we CAN carry one afk person the entire run, but why should we? You don't have the time or don't want to put in even the minimal amount of effort into it, gtfo. If you're doing low dps but you're at least there and not causing extra problems, I'll carry, no big deal.
    Last edited by Nanotech; 2013-03-12 at 07:20 PM.

  10. #370
    As long as you were doing over 15k you're fine.. Doing anything under 15k is almost impossible in MoP greens.

  11. #371
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    People need to learn how to read....OP stated he was nearly a lvl 90. Which means he wasnt doing Heroics.

    Secondly, OP hasnt provided any numbers to make his request a valid point.

    There is no reason, for any dps doing less than 30K on any boss. Idc what class or spec you are. Stats scale with leveling, but there's no excuse for pulling less than that. Calling people "elitests" because they know how to play their class/spec is what ALL bad players say. There are plenty of websites to basically teach you everything you need to know and there's addons to help with your rotations. IF you dont want to invest your time to improving yourself, even to be sub par, then you shouldnt bitch when people kick you. We ALL pay a sub and OUR time is valuable because of it. If this was a F2P game, then it would totally be another story.

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    The problem isn't the DPS meters, the problem is assholes.
    yea but how do we get rid of the assholes? i say strip em of their human rights cause tards like that aren't even human. now you can shoot em in the street like a rabid dog and ppl will applaud you...lol

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    I think they should definitely be banned in LFR/LFD, since there is absolutely nothing positive that they can contribute under those circumstances. If you need to know your own DPS there are addons that can do that for you without showing other people's.

    But in actual real raiding I can definitely understand their necessity and usefulness so they should be allowed to be used in those kinds of environments.
    Well, without seeing how others are doing you have no point of reference to judge your own performance by. You could be doing 90k dps and think "Wow,I'm doing amazing" but others with your similar ilvl could be doing 200k. Doesn't look so amazing anymore, does it? (I picked those numbers randomly to illustrate the point). If you don't know where approximately you lie on the damage meter compared to other people how would you know if you're performing really well, mediocre or terrible?

    Personally, I like seeing my damage in relation to other players (and I haven't even raided in MOP at all yet). If I'm on top I feel good and try my best to stay there. If I'm near the bottom I try harder and try to tweak my tactics, rotation, gems, glyphs to get closer to the top. It's a great motivator. Usually, the people who really fail at their class are the ones calling for a ban on meters, the rest of us use them to improve our own dps/healing etc. I've been a freshly dinged level 90 on 5 toons now, in quest greens, and still haven't failed at performing my role. People don't expect you to do raid-gear level dps when you're obviously a fresh 90 with less than 300k hp. I am totally fine with carrying people with terrible gear through dungeons if they are at least trying and are using the correct spells/attacks. I don't fault them for being undergeared, we've all been there. But then you get people who simply don't know anything, and no amount of heroic thunderforged gear is going to make them better. Or people who just afk and think others should have to carry them completely. That's a good reason for a swift kick.

  14. #374
    Stood in the Fire SaltLakeAtrocity's Avatar
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    Without dps meters, you would just be frustrated when you can't kill a boss or dungeon because you don't have enough dps and don't know why.
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  15. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metallikiddd View Post
    yea but how do we get rid of the #@$holes?
    The best way is to make it lonely and unpopular to be rude. Unfortunately, they're not the minority they should be and there are entire guilds of what amounts to the nerd version of the stereotypical "stupid jock" from movies going "Dude, you total told that guy his damage sucked and he should jump off a bridge. HIGH FIVE!"

    Lately I've found initiating a kick myself works well for the group as a whole. People linking charts and commenting about how another member's low damage is holding the group back (when they're doing reasonable damage given the content requirements)? Members telling the tank to "go, go, go" just because they're not pulling the next group before the last was killed? Player complaining about loot roles when they lost to someone who could use the stats just as much as they could? Member blaming the healer when they died even though the combat log shows they took a ton of avoidable damage? Vote to kick. The runs have gone smoother every single time I have done this. Turns out most arrogant pricks aren't as good as they think they are. Who knew?

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by Firecrest View Post
    Wait wait wait. Did you seriously just say that I'm the lazy one if some asshat shows up for raid with no idea WTF he's doing? Buddy, you've got your wires crossed or something. Besides the fact that most of these players are so confident in their "skills" that they won't listen anyway, there simply aren't enough hours in a day for a decent player to spend his time mentoring every casual player he comes across who was too lazy to attempt learning on his own.
    In the context, possibly. He is implying than rather than spending time to help this raider to improve their performance, you take the quick option of replacing that person with someone better. Raiding is a team effort last I recall. It is not just me me me. It is us us us.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by Reakash View Post
    Taking DPS meters out would also require taking the combat logs out, since people would still parse those for data. Taking DPS meters out of the game would also make it a bit more difficult to tell why you're wiping in a raid, and if its from low DPS, it would be difficult to tell who's fucking up.

    Bad idea all around mate.
    SWTOR solution is pretty decent, Combat Logs only show your actions, so in order to get a parse of the entire group you have to share your logs through a third party parsing system. This allows organized groups to have the same level of parsing WOW raiders are used to, while making it easier for PUG groups to not have to deal with the negative aspects of Damage Meters.

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by kinneer View Post
    In the context, possibly. He is implying than rather than spending time to help this raider to improve their performance, you take the quick option of replacing that person with someone better. Raiding is a team effort last I recall. It is not just me me me. It is us us us.
    I'll make sure to forward everyone who is kick material I come across to you
    I'm sure you'll want to take the time for each of them. Joking aside... Nobody genuinly does what you suggest everytime. It is also a signal to the player in question when he is kicked. Perhaps he will ask people for information beforehand or look it up next time. It is the most painless way for everyone.

  19. #379
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusRex View Post
    SWTOR solution is pretty decent, Combat Logs only show your actions, so in order to get a parse of the entire group you have to share your logs through a third party parsing system. This allows organized groups to have the same level of parsing WOW raiders are used to, while making it easier for PUG groups to not have to deal with the negative aspects of Damage Meters.
    From a WoW raid leader's perspective, this seems like a lot of hassle for minimal gain. It's time consuming and, what, I have to force all my raiders to log and submit? Realistically, that isn't happening; someone would always forget or be lazy or slow. And on-the-fly troubleshooting would be nonexistent.

    Sure, it saves some hurt feelings in PuGs, but if you get stuck in a random group with strangers who happen to be assholes, they are just going to be jerks in some other, different way. Maybe you'd just get booted arbitrarily. Maybe the wrong people would get kicked. Or maybe it would just turn every bad PuG into the ones that end up in a yelling match stalemate.

    I mean, it's an interesting system, but I don't think it's one that would work well in WoW, especially after years of having that information at our fingertips.
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  20. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    It is the most painless way for everyone...
    ...except the player you kick. All the pain goes to him, doubly so if he's then perma-benched because he doesn't want to spend hours poring over guild homework because they just want to have fun.

    All I see is pain all round when you kick someone. Those that want to kick have elitist intent, those that don't want to don't want to cause a raid rift, and the guy that gets kicked has to sit on the bench because of a negative community.
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