Thread: Ban DPS Metres

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  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by Crym View Post
    You can level to 90 easily without doing anything with a group. Solo-play for most classes is significantly different from optimal group play. If a player is a jerk about learning I don't disagree, but sometimes all it takes is someone explaining a few things as you go. If everyone had the attitude of "if they didn't learn what they need to be effective on the way to 90 there's no hope" a lot of now good players would have quit a long time ago.

    I realize you are saying you're teaching people unless they're rude, so that's good. However, the assumption that getting to 90 means they probably know what they're doing is dangerous.
    I agree with this. Just getting to 90 doesn't necessairly teach you anything you need to know to be a competent end game player. Besides the differences between solo and group play, many people level as DPS and then switch to Tank or Heal for raiding.
    Last edited by Firecrest; 2013-03-11 at 11:15 PM.
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  2. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firecrest View Post
    I agree with this. Just getting to 90 doesn't necessairly teach you anything you need to know to be a competent end game player. Besides the differences between solo and group play, many people level as DPS and then switch to Tank or heal for raiding.
    Agreed. That and some of us have alts that we just are having fun playing around with, trying new things. We all start out somewhere. Reading isn't the same thing as doing.
    When I que up for a dungeon on my raid geared toon, I just get through it. I dont care about the meters. As long as we are making progress, and not wiping, I could care less. I hope that when I que up on my barely geared toon, someone has that same mentality about me.

    Besides - as long as people aren't wiping or afking. It really shouldn't be a big deal. Take a sip of that drink you prefer and relaaaxxxx.
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  3. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theendgamelv3 View Post
    Training dummies just sit there, they don't hurl abilities, make you move, etc. If it was as simple as doing training dummies, everyone could easily become a world class raider.
    Haha, let's be honest with ourselves here. There's an overwhelming amount of players in this game today that have no idea what their rotation is supposed to be or give two shits. They don't care. The training dummies have been there for years, these players don't care. They haven't practiced on stationary targets let alone moving enemies. It's just not important to them.

    Even if perfecting your rotation on a dummy in town was all that was required for perfection, we'd still have plenty of people who simply don't give a damn. Just the way it is.
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  4. #344
    Learning to play a toon without meters is like trying to paint a house blindfolded. You could do it, but why?

    As for your particular situation, that's just the typical lfr/dungeon heroes getting off on thinking they're better than someone.
    Best not to take it to heart.

  5. #345
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    How can we see what players are doing without DPS meters ?
    Peoples could simply rollface or spam the same touch all the time, no one could notice it, sry but if your DPS is that low ... well this kick is legit.

  6. #346
    I don't mind people being bad too much. I just dislike people who are not active with pressing their buttons.

    So many times I see players turning around their own axis. They must be looking at the view or something, I don't know. They're doing everything except contributing to the run.

    Healers I have no beef with doing that as long as they heal when needed. Healing for the sake of (over)healing isn't required. And tbh let's not go there were healers also have dps abilities etc. Some healers get tunnelvision about their dps and neglect the actual task they were invited for.

    So yes those people have low dps and low activity. And just auto-attacking isn't good either (probably shows in the activity list).

    Last time I saw a paladin something with Hendrik (not his full name) in his name. He had a 0.02 activity on the boss before Algalon. At Algalon he "fell" through the floor. So I confronted him about it. He told me to sftu (I wasn't rude to him btw) because it was LFR and no one cared etc. And so on Emperors he just walked around between the 2 big mobs autoattacking. He was a healer though and the healers were struggling like crazy. In the end 60% had died during that fight, meanwhile mr holy paladin was running around doing absolutely nothing but throw a heal every now and again to make sure he didn't die. I am not a guy who asks for a kick from the LFR or something. All I did was confront him and got trashtalk in return.

  7. #347
    The dps meters aren't the problem here it's douchbags, dps below 90 doesn't matter and they were just being dicks. Hell it was probably one person being a dick with everybody else blindly clicking yes on the vote to kick.

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Healers I have no beef with doing that as long as they heal when needed. Healing for the sake of (over)healing isn't required. And tbh let's not go there were healers also have dps abilities etc. Some healers get tunnelvision about their dps and neglect the actual task they were invited for.
    I got kicked from a dungeon once for being last on the dps meters... as a healer (while indeed healing too, no one died at all). People just don't notice what it says, they only see one dps bar is half of the other bars, so he's bad, so lets kick him. They must have wondered why finding a new dps took so long

    Anyway, meters are useful. I played SWtOR for a while and dungeons were hell. We wiped a lot and had no way of telling why. Not enough dps? Not enough healing? Taking too much avoidable damage? No idea. Like banging your head to a wall and hoping it would break in the end. You just have to ignore the times you get kicked because someone doesn't understand how to use the meters.

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by mmines View Post
    The dps meters aren't the problem here it's douchbags, dps below 90 doesn't matter and they were just being dicks. Hell it was probably one person being a dick with everybody else blindly clicking yes on the vote to kick.
    Read the thread please (perhaps not all pages but atleast 4) so you wouldn't come up with this. It is actually the players who do badly. Examples in this thread are plenty. You cannot possibly want to be playing with people who are 89 and do worse dps then 2 expansions ago. You do not want to be in a party with people who are 89 and the rest 85/86 and do far less then them. Then there is something wrong with that player. And it even doesn't have a flying F to do with a rotation. It has everything to do with just not pressing any buttons.

    activity is the key

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-12 at 04:18 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Amerissis View Post
    I got kicked from a dungeon once for being last on the dps meters... as a healer (while indeed healing too, no one died at all). People just don't notice what it says, they only see one dps bar is half of the other bars, so he's bad, so lets kick him. They must have wondered why finding a new dps took so long

    Anyway, meters are useful. I played SWtOR for a while and dungeons were hell. We wiped a lot and had no way of telling why. Not enough dps? Not enough healing? Taking too much avoidable damage? No idea. Like banging your head to a wall and hoping it would break in the end. You just have to ignore the times you get kicked because someone doesn't understand how to use the meters.
    I think the shock was more to like: why am I not getting healed (if they continued right after kicking you). But yes those people were douchebags

  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    Seriously. A whole lot of people commenting on this thread? You have bad, hate-filled attitudes, and you should feel bad, too. Stop pretending you're not elitists and not selfish. Because, honestly? A lot of you are, and a lot of you are the problem with this game's toxic community.
    You know what has contributed more to the toxic community than anything else? "Casuals". REAL casuals are players that don't have time to commit to the game. These are people who are still good players, would like to raid, but just aren't able to raid (or don't raid very often; maybe 1 or 2 days a week). They might do arenas, but they only do them for fun. "Casuals" are bad players who don't want to take the time to learn how to improve. They feel that because they pay $15/month, they are entitled to be carried through content. They don't feel that they need to improve, but that the community around them should improve to accommodate.

    Yes, everyone was a noob at some point. Everyone sucked at every game at some point. The big difference is that some people sit down and try to be better. They actually made an effort (as small as it is) to become better. People like the OP and yourself, though, have such an inflated self worth that you think your time is not only more important than everyone else's (because you won't take the time to improve), but you're above learning something so simple as a priority queue or DPS rotation. "Casuals" tend to be some of the most entitled wankers in WOW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firecrest View Post
    Good god. Fifteen pages of bad players being mad they're getting called out and everyone else trying to explain that meters are what you make of them.



    How can a person who has absolutely no measurable information regarding their sucess classify as "not lacking in any way"? That just... Makes no sense.

    They're lacking information.



    You say you know your class. But how do you know your class without any objective measurement whatsoever? How do you know that you're living up to your full potential? How do you know that you're not under (or over) estimating your skill?

    Even if we grant that you're a good player, how to you get from "good" to "great" without any performance data?



    The real assumption here is yours. You ASSUME that you play well. You don't know. Without data, you could be doing BC era DPS for all you actually know.



    The person you quoted said none of those things. The point he made is that, without meters, you are blind to knowledge that could help you. Willingly blind even. Kinda like how you blinded youself to the point he was making in the first place.
    You keep talking about improvement. The people in these kinds of threads that are whining about DPS meters aren't interested in improvement. They're interested in hiding from accountability.

  11. #351
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    I think they should definitely be banned in LFR/LFD, since there is absolutely nothing positive that they can contribute under those circumstances. If you need to know your own DPS there are addons that can do that for you without showing other people's.

    But in actual real raiding I can definitely understand their necessity and usefulness so they should be allowed to be used in those kinds of environments.

  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    It's not really analogous, though, since a lot of those alternative situations (like people's prior comparisons to guns and warheads), since DPS tools are an inherently benign tool, of benign creation, with benign utility. You can't say that about a nuclear bomb.

    The problem really isn't the DPS meters. All they do is collect data from the game and display it in an easy to read format. It's not the fault of the tool if particular assholes use it for malevolent purposes.

    I'm pretty sure if a good, honorable, caring person was in charge of a nuke it'd never be used or only in very extreme situations - perhaps to blow up or derail an asteroid, or fight an alien invasion. etc.

  13. #353
    Meters aren't the problem. Even without them, if your damage is terrible -- people are going to notice and kick you anyways.

  14. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpioz View Post
    I wish Blizz would ban dps metres, for a example i was a nearly level 90 pally not very good geared as i wanted to start dungeons to get gear to raid, so was happily going through temple of the jade serpant to get new gear and was kicked for having low dps i was below tank and druid dps if i recall, but here is my problem dont you have to gear to get better gear to higher your dps i have to say it put me off doing dungeons and just do scenerios now i never had this problem in tbc or lich king instances
    As most have said, it's not the meter's fault. Far as kicking someone for low dps, it's been going on since LFG T-Virus. All you can do is requeue and not worry about it too much. Most people are ignorant nowadays.

  15. #355
    I don't enjoy watching that i got lower dps than another hunter in my raid, but i use it to improve myself so it is good for me.
    I see your problem tough. In the first hc i entered after dinging 90 7 days after launch i got told that my dps sucked. I explained that i just dinged and had only greens, he ignored me and contiuned fighting. They could atleast excuse themself for acting like an idiot.

  16. #356
    How did this thread make it 19 pages?

  17. #357
    Only on my 3rd 90 now, but the best way so far for each character has been to hit 90, queue for the Arena scenario and get your 450 weapon then knock out some scenarios in between instance runs. As a paladin, you're going to be somewhat screwed by getting 3 different specs of gears, unlike say a hunter or rogue who will get purely dps gear.

    To be honest, gear generally isn't what holds people back; it's simply not knowing how to play their class, or not caring and wanting to coast on the efforts of others. I shouldn't be able to take a fresh 461 DK into the first two LFRs and place in the top 5 dps - but there I am. It can't be that everyone below is worse geared because we all have to make that minimum ilevel - it's more likely they either a) don't know how to play b) don't know how to install a rotation helper, c) don't care and are coastng. I'm pretty easy going, it's only a game, but when I'm out DPSing a warrior with Starshatter and the Sha axe while I have my upgraded 471 blue weapon - you can see where that guy or gal might need to get kicked to smarten them up.

  18. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickmanning View Post
    How did this thread make it 19 pages?
    There's enough hard feelings about jerks who use DPS as an excuse to kick decent players who just aren't overgeared for content to make one side speak up. There's enough people who have run with jerks who expect to be carried through content for rewards without putting even the minimum of effort forth to help the team (and in some cases aggressively refuse advice) that the other side has something to say.

    Add to that, members of both sides tend to assume the other side is only saying that because they're the "jerk" that riled them up in the first place and... well... 19 pages.

  19. #359
    Every Tuesday I do a couple heroics on my holy paladin, and unless I get a heroic geared DPS, I always top the meters on every pull, trash included.

    And yes I use it to kick people with 429 ilvl, I had to grind my way up to 450, you should too; I'm not wiping due to your incompetence.

  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by Basemath View Post
    Really though, you sound like a solid fellow, original poster, who is willing to learn. Like the others above me cleared out, you probably fell victim to the scum of WoW. \.
    And I must've missed the part where he indicated he was a solid fellow, willing to learn. All I got from the OP's post is: "ban damage meters because I got kicked out of a group. " I don't know, maybe it's totally how he tells it, but I can also say in all my years of playing wow, on many many different alts I've never gotten kicked out of a dungeon group (other than if I got DCed and they didn't want to wait around which is totally fine). I'm not saying this to show how amazing I am, more like if you are at least adequate, at least mediocre, chances of you getting kicked are extremely low.

    P.S. I should also mention that running recount in dungeons is often a way to tell me who is afking the entire run. Since heroics tend to go rather fast I am too busy doing my job and sometimes don't even notice someone putting another player on follow and just going afk for free valor. I kick those people immediately unless they excuse themselves beforehand and say they need to go afk. Yes, when I'm queuing by myself on my dps or with friends we CAN carry one afk person the entire run, but why should we? You don't have the time or don't want to put in even the minimal amount of effort into it, gtfo. If you're doing low dps but you're at least there and not causing extra problems, I'll carry, no big deal.
    Last edited by Nanotech; 2013-03-12 at 07:20 PM.

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