Thread: Ban DPS Metres

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  1. #361
    As long as you were doing over 15k you're fine.. Doing anything under 15k is almost impossible in MoP greens.

  2. #362
    Stood in the Fire Volbian's Avatar
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    People need to learn how to read....OP stated he was nearly a lvl 90. Which means he wasnt doing Heroics.

    Secondly, OP hasnt provided any numbers to make his request a valid point.

    There is no reason, for any dps doing less than 30K on any boss. Idc what class or spec you are. Stats scale with leveling, but there's no excuse for pulling less than that. Calling people "elitests" because they know how to play their class/spec is what ALL bad players say. There are plenty of websites to basically teach you everything you need to know and there's addons to help with your rotations. IF you dont want to invest your time to improving yourself, even to be sub par, then you shouldnt bitch when people kick you. We ALL pay a sub and OUR time is valuable because of it. If this was a F2P game, then it would totally be another story.

  3. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    The problem isn't the DPS meters, the problem is assholes.
    yea but how do we get rid of the assholes? i say strip em of their human rights cause tards like that aren't even human. now you can shoot em in the street like a rabid dog and ppl will applaud you...lol

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    I think they should definitely be banned in LFR/LFD, since there is absolutely nothing positive that they can contribute under those circumstances. If you need to know your own DPS there are addons that can do that for you without showing other people's.

    But in actual real raiding I can definitely understand their necessity and usefulness so they should be allowed to be used in those kinds of environments.
    Well, without seeing how others are doing you have no point of reference to judge your own performance by. You could be doing 90k dps and think "Wow,I'm doing amazing" but others with your similar ilvl could be doing 200k. Doesn't look so amazing anymore, does it? (I picked those numbers randomly to illustrate the point). If you don't know where approximately you lie on the damage meter compared to other people how would you know if you're performing really well, mediocre or terrible?

    Personally, I like seeing my damage in relation to other players (and I haven't even raided in MOP at all yet). If I'm on top I feel good and try my best to stay there. If I'm near the bottom I try harder and try to tweak my tactics, rotation, gems, glyphs to get closer to the top. It's a great motivator. Usually, the people who really fail at their class are the ones calling for a ban on meters, the rest of us use them to improve our own dps/healing etc. I've been a freshly dinged level 90 on 5 toons now, in quest greens, and still haven't failed at performing my role. People don't expect you to do raid-gear level dps when you're obviously a fresh 90 with less than 300k hp. I am totally fine with carrying people with terrible gear through dungeons if they are at least trying and are using the correct spells/attacks. I don't fault them for being undergeared, we've all been there. But then you get people who simply don't know anything, and no amount of heroic thunderforged gear is going to make them better. Or people who just afk and think others should have to carry them completely. That's a good reason for a swift kick.

  5. #365
    Stood in the Fire SaltLakeAtrocity's Avatar
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    Without dps meters, you would just be frustrated when you can't kill a boss or dungeon because you don't have enough dps and don't know why.
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  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metallikiddd View Post
    yea but how do we get rid of the #@$holes?
    The best way is to make it lonely and unpopular to be rude. Unfortunately, they're not the minority they should be and there are entire guilds of what amounts to the nerd version of the stereotypical "stupid jock" from movies going "Dude, you total told that guy his damage sucked and he should jump off a bridge. HIGH FIVE!"

    Lately I've found initiating a kick myself works well for the group as a whole. People linking charts and commenting about how another member's low damage is holding the group back (when they're doing reasonable damage given the content requirements)? Members telling the tank to "go, go, go" just because they're not pulling the next group before the last was killed? Player complaining about loot roles when they lost to someone who could use the stats just as much as they could? Member blaming the healer when they died even though the combat log shows they took a ton of avoidable damage? Vote to kick. The runs have gone smoother every single time I have done this. Turns out most arrogant pricks aren't as good as they think they are. Who knew?

  7. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by Firecrest View Post
    Wait wait wait. Did you seriously just say that I'm the lazy one if some asshat shows up for raid with no idea WTF he's doing? Buddy, you've got your wires crossed or something. Besides the fact that most of these players are so confident in their "skills" that they won't listen anyway, there simply aren't enough hours in a day for a decent player to spend his time mentoring every casual player he comes across who was too lazy to attempt learning on his own.
    In the context, possibly. He is implying than rather than spending time to help this raider to improve their performance, you take the quick option of replacing that person with someone better. Raiding is a team effort last I recall. It is not just me me me. It is us us us.

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by Reakash View Post
    Taking DPS meters out would also require taking the combat logs out, since people would still parse those for data. Taking DPS meters out of the game would also make it a bit more difficult to tell why you're wiping in a raid, and if its from low DPS, it would be difficult to tell who's fucking up.

    Bad idea all around mate.
    SWTOR solution is pretty decent, Combat Logs only show your actions, so in order to get a parse of the entire group you have to share your logs through a third party parsing system. This allows organized groups to have the same level of parsing WOW raiders are used to, while making it easier for PUG groups to not have to deal with the negative aspects of Damage Meters.

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by kinneer View Post
    In the context, possibly. He is implying than rather than spending time to help this raider to improve their performance, you take the quick option of replacing that person with someone better. Raiding is a team effort last I recall. It is not just me me me. It is us us us.
    I'll make sure to forward everyone who is kick material I come across to you
    I'm sure you'll want to take the time for each of them. Joking aside... Nobody genuinly does what you suggest everytime. It is also a signal to the player in question when he is kicked. Perhaps he will ask people for information beforehand or look it up next time. It is the most painless way for everyone.

  10. #370
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusRex View Post
    SWTOR solution is pretty decent, Combat Logs only show your actions, so in order to get a parse of the entire group you have to share your logs through a third party parsing system. This allows organized groups to have the same level of parsing WOW raiders are used to, while making it easier for PUG groups to not have to deal with the negative aspects of Damage Meters.
    From a WoW raid leader's perspective, this seems like a lot of hassle for minimal gain. It's time consuming and, what, I have to force all my raiders to log and submit? Realistically, that isn't happening; someone would always forget or be lazy or slow. And on-the-fly troubleshooting would be nonexistent.

    Sure, it saves some hurt feelings in PuGs, but if you get stuck in a random group with strangers who happen to be assholes, they are just going to be jerks in some other, different way. Maybe you'd just get booted arbitrarily. Maybe the wrong people would get kicked. Or maybe it would just turn every bad PuG into the ones that end up in a yelling match stalemate.

    I mean, it's an interesting system, but I don't think it's one that would work well in WoW, especially after years of having that information at our fingertips.


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  11. #371
    Legendary! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    It is the most painless way for everyone...
    ...except the player you kick. All the pain goes to him, doubly so if he's then perma-benched because he doesn't want to spend hours poring over guild homework because they just want to have fun.

    All I see is pain all round when you kick someone. Those that want to kick have elitist intent, those that don't want to don't want to cause a raid rift, and the guy that gets kicked has to sit on the bench because of a negative community.
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  12. #372
    @ OP:

    Thing is that when a DpS is doing more than 35% of the total dmg done in the dungeon, I can only assume that the others are slacking. I have no problem with newbs or people who are ungeared, but I will not tolerate people who are not giving their best or at least trying to do so. Slacking/afking/dcing indefinitely and being rude are the only reasons I will initiate or agree to a kick.

    If you think that your dps is low only because of gear, inform your group. Secondly I strongly suggest checking noxxic for a basic understanding of your class' rotation and how to handle it. If you are a sitting duck meleeing the boss and expecting the others to carry you, then I will kick you and be happy about it too. 70% of your dmg being Melee is not acceptable, sorry.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by kinneer View Post
    In the context, possibly. He is implying than rather than spending time to help this raider to improve their performance, you take the quick option of replacing that person with someone better. Raiding is a team effort last I recall. It is not just me me me. It is us us us.
    I wasn't being figurative when I said that "there aren't enough hours in a day to teach every bad player I come across". There literally aren't. Occasionally, if someone has a really good attitude, I'll put some time in with them. But that's not why I play. And I don't really find that fun. Why should my fun be hampered just to facilitate something that the other person could do on their own time with a few quick Google searches?
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  14. #374
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    Blame the people, not the addons. kinda like we should blame guns for all the wars we humans have caused

  15. #375
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    if youre "undergeared" and slow down your group, at least drink a flask ^^

  16. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firecrest View Post
    Why should my fun be hampered just to facilitate something that the other person could do on their own time with a few quick Google searches?
    I see this quite a bit. My answer is simple. There are far more under-geared, under-skilled, casual PvE players without enchantments, gems, flasks, upgrades, and a laundry list of other items running LFD/LFR than there are Pros. By helping someone out, even just a bit, you improve your chances of randomly teaming with someone who has been helped out, rather than someone who was mocked and kicked. If you help someone, and they do, and so on, it eventually insures there are players who are finally getting the hang of it and helping their party, rather than hindering them.

    But, if your time is precious to you, and people don't matter, you can always just run with guildies and friends so you are not imposed upon to help out a lesser knowledgeable player. It's ok. They are used to being mocked and ignored. It is why they don't care when they join LFR.

    ON TOPIC: I think Recount and Skada should only be usable in raids and only by the raid leader. This would insure it is used for its intended purpose and not just an epeen stroke or an excuse to kick someone / embarass them.
    Last edited by -Superman-; 2013-03-13 at 09:57 PM.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    I see this quite a bit. My answer is simple. There are far more under-geared, under-skilled, casual PvE players without enchantments, gems, flasks, upgrades, and a laundry list of other items running LFD/LFR than there are Pros. By helping someone out, even just a bit, you improve your chances of randomly teaming with someone who has been helped out, rather than someone who was mocked and kicked. If you help someone, and they do, and so on, it eventually insures there are players who are finally getting the hang of it and helping their party, rather than hindering them.
    In a nebulous sense, what you're saying makes sense. However, in real world practice, it does not. I point you to the earlier portion of the post you quoted. If I spent just 15 minutes with every bad player I came across, it would be 24/7 experience – and I’d STILL miss most people. When I sit down in front of the computer and say to myself, “Okay, I’ve got three hours to play before bed.” Is it fair to expect me to spend 2 ½ of those hours on teaching strangers how to play? That’s not what I bought WoW for. If I wanted to be a teacher, I’d get a job in a High School. My free time should be filled with things I enjoy doing.

    Secondly, I have to again reference my previous post. The real kicker here is that there's not much I could teach someone that they couldn’t learn faster on their own. The basics are really really easy to learn. You could Google them up 10x faster than I could teach you through chat. I might meet with some limited success in teaching someone the finer points of how to play their class – but that’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about people who have such a shitty grasp of the game that all four (or 18 of 25 or whatever LFR is) of the other people in group would rather have them gone than try to deal with them.

    My firm belief is that the vast majority of people who are ejected for poor performance could correct that problem with less than 30 minutes on the web. I have no patience or pity or desire to help people who refuse to help themselves. What you’re asking is for two people to do the job of one, in a less efficient manner, when one of the two (maybe both!) don’t even want to be there in the first place. It’s not really a logical request.

    In the real world, butterfly wings don’t create tsunamis.
    Last edited by Firecrest; 2013-03-14 at 03:29 PM. Reason: typo
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  18. #378
    Banned -Superman-'s Avatar
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    I agree that helping EVERY player is a bit unrealistic, also, it is unlikely anyone would play 24/7, so that is more or less exaggeration. My point was, for the 1-2 hours people are logged in per day, they are likely to find someone who wants help, and needs help, but might not know how to ask for it. It hurts nothing to help 1 person per day. Even if everyone else is completely ignored in a 12 hours day of play, helping 1 person, 1 time, can make a difference. It usually takes 10 mins, not 2.5 hours (again exaggeration).

    There will be some players who do not want help, who are there simply for "lulz", or just don't care enough to want to learn. These players are easily spotted and easily ignored. I'm certainly not saying we need to help everyone, but it would be nice if more players would help 1 someone I do agree that most players who are ejected, deserve the ejection for one reason or another. I just want to make sure we are not tossing aside a good apple, just because a spoiled apple was in the same barrel, or because the skin "looked" bad.

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