1. #1
    Mechagnome a C e's Avatar
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    [5.4] How is our survivability in 5.4??

    Hey Guys,

    with the changes to our class, is our survivability better than previous patches?

  2. #2
    How could it possibly be better?

    We lost Fel Armor and Soul Leech had a huge nerf.

    It won't be BAD, but I don't think the new Harvest Life will make it BETTER.

  3. #3
    The Patient sasofrass's Avatar
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    We also got a change to Soul Link which now redirects 20% of all damage taken to our pet and causes us to restore health based on 3% of the damage we deal and the glyph of unending resolve which trade the cooldown for 10% passive damage reduction.

    We will be fine.
    Austin -=- US-Suramar -=- Warlock -=- 14/14H -=- Logic

  4. #4
    Agreed that we will be fine but I don't see that glyph as a buff.

  5. #5
    Mechagnome a C e's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasofrass View Post
    We also got a change to Soul Link which now redirects 20% of all damage taken to our pet and causes us to restore health based on 3% of the damage we deal and the glyph of unending resolve which trade the cooldown for 10% passive damage reduction.

    We will be fine.

    Well, This will be my first time to make my lock my pvp main because it was only my pve main and i wanted to reach 2k+ next season and i am enjoying the class but i feel the in arenas (3v3) i will be tunnelvision most of the time

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizelda View Post
    Agreed that we will be fine but I don't see that glyph as a buff.
    I still don't understand the point of the glyph at all. Slow burn damage has never been a problem for locks.. still won't even after the massive Soul Leech nerf. All the glyph does is take away one of our effective Oh Shit buttons and is not only useless but outright -harmful- for pvp.

  7. #7
    maby wrong thread but is lifedrain going to be viable or an option with the talent/glyph for aff?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Szarala View Post
    I still don't understand the point of the glyph at all. Slow burn damage has never been a problem for locks.. still won't even after the massive Soul Leech nerf. All the glyph does is take away one of our effective Oh Shit buttons and is not only useless but outright -harmful- for pvp.
    the glyph will be a better option if you have a hard hitting mechanic that hits fairly often like quills, as you wont be able to use UR often enough, there are definately encounters where the glyph will be insanely good and on others using the glyph isnt an option. its a bit more situational.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aqira91 View Post
    maby wrong thread but is lifedrain going to be viable or an option with the talent/glyph for aff?
    it does decent dmg on the ptr, around 20-40k dmg pr tick depending on procs ofc, it wont be a new filler afaik, but it will be a great survival tool without being a huge dps loss.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by sasofrass View Post
    We also got a change to Soul Link which now redirects 20% of all damage taken to our pet and causes us to restore health based on 3% of the damage we deal and the glyph of unending resolve which trade the cooldown for 10% passive damage reduction.

    We will be fine.
    Since I believe this thread is pvp focused, the glyph shouldn't even be brought up. Losing a great defensive cd with an attached silence immunity for a 10% DR will never be worth it for pvp.

    If you take the new soul link then you lose dark bargain which is a huge lifesaver against burst-heavy comps. Plus our pet is already incredibly squishy, especially against dotcleaves, and this will make teams focus it more and you will have a dead pet most of the time.

    New harvest life is a great active healing ability, but you also lose dark regen which is a great healing cd that doesnt require you to channel a spell aka interruptable.

    Without SL or any cds, warlocks will be the squishiest class in the game, even squishier than mages. However you can choose to have great cds or good active survivability and decent cds plus you always have portal mobility. Warlocks should be fine but I worry about melee cleaves sitting on lock all day because outside of their cds they will be dying soooo fast.

  10. #10
    What many of you are failing to take I into account is the fact that you can change talents and glyphs free of cost b4 the gates open... we will constantly change between harvest life talent and dark regeneration, as well as sac pact and soul link. Frequently sac pact and dark Regeneration will be used together against burst comps like kfc and phdk, while harvest life and soul link will be used together against less bursty comps like shadow play and to an extent lsd and lsd v2, the unending resolve glyph is normally not an option in pvp simply for the aura mastery effect however the glyph coupled with soul link provides a constant 30% dr rich could be very strong vs comps with out a 12 sec interrupt like shatter play

    Pve wise soul leach (the "nerf" will not even be noticed) if you can get to the 15% cap that's a 100k shield in pve, soul link, and glyph of eternal resolve will be extremely strong for every fight in SoO

  11. #11
    Except that you lose one glyph slot for using glyph of UR.

    Guess that's another downside of using it.

  12. #12
    every melee class in 5.4 is more bursting... more battle fatigue...

    we lose damge reduction from fel armor (and NO armor bonus, great...), i hope howl of terror baseline can help us in pvp...

  13. #13
    I tried taking soul link with the glyph on the Ptr thinking I could tank anything with the buff to resil and it really wasn't the case. If a warrior pops reck you still get trucked hard. Plus pets die way to often and its a massive resource drain. If you have a R1 healer to keep both you and your pet up and you micro manage like a champ its possible but in most cases sac pact is better for consistent defense in like 3's and such and dark bargain is still good against double dps 2's and triple dps 3's. I'm just not completely sold on soul link atm but ofc ill keep testing it when it goes live.

  14. #14
    Locks are tanky already, and staying that way in 5.4. Destro might be the most durable spec in the game due to ember tap, and Demo isn't too far behind with all of its tools. Playing wrathguard/glyph of demon training (which makes your wrathguard pretty hard to kill) will make Demo pretty much a non-option to try and kill.

    Affliction is a little more squishy, but if you can keep up your pet with soul link, we'll be perfectly safe. If you pet is getting killed constantly, voidlord might be a viable option.

    45 second gateway is really still quite good, and it is no longer killable. You can still port twice for every gateway, and our mobility is still amazing.

    While damage is going up across the board, look at our survivability:

    -7% increased resil (20% damage reduction).
    -10% loss to fel armor offset by 10% change to trinket bonuses.
    -20% damage reduction to soul link, and 3% returned to lock/pet.
    -Howl being base gives us MC/SF to take (demonic breath lol) wich are amazing peeling abilities on short cd's.
    -Against dot cleaves, we might be able to take glyph of UR for constant 10% more damage reduction. I know against DK/Afflock there is no point in having a 40% damage reduction sometimes because the pressure is constant. Getting locked as affliction not as big a deal as getting locked as destruction.

    TL : DR:
    While I have done no testing, locks are currently one of the more durable casters, and are only getting more tools to become more tanky.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by junn View Post
    Locks are tanky already, and staying that way in 5.4. Destro might be the most durable spec in the game due to ember tap, and Demo isn't too far behind with all of its tools. Playing wrathguard/glyph of demon training (which makes your wrathguard pretty hard to kill) will make Demo pretty much a non-option to try and kill.

    Affliction is a little more squishy, but if you can keep up your pet with soul link, we'll be perfectly safe. If you pet is getting killed constantly, voidlord might be a viable option.

    45 second gateway is really still quite good, and it is no longer killable. You can still port twice for every gateway, and our mobility is still amazing.

    While damage is going up across the board, look at our survivability:

    -7% increased resil (20% damage reduction).
    -10% loss to fel armor offset by 10% change to trinket bonuses.
    -20% damage reduction to soul link, and 3% returned to lock/pet.
    -Howl being base gives us MC/SF to take (demonic breath lol) wich are amazing peeling abilities on short cd's.
    -Against dot cleaves, we might be able to take glyph of UR for constant 10% more damage reduction. I know against DK/Afflock there is no point in having a 40% damage reduction sometimes because the pressure is constant. Getting locked as affliction not as big a deal as getting locked as destruction.

    TL : DR:
    While I have done no testing, locks are currently one of the more durable casters, and are only getting more tools to become more tanky.
    The reason why locks are "tanky" is because of their multiple strong D cds/heals and portal to your pillar mobility as well as a passive DR. A lock caught in the open gets dropped faster than any other caster than a mage. Soul link won't be viable against most any teams unless they magically buff pet survivability, and bargain is pretty much required. The howl baseline change is very nice, but thats again more active survivability through cc, in terms of pure survivability locks will be very low. Especially with the change making fel flame not extend dots and nightfall not procing as many soulshards when your multi dotting, melee will sit on our face and truck us and our damage will be lower. Outside of cds and SL locks will be the absolute squishiest thing you can be: cloth with no Dr and no armor increase.

    The UR glyph isnt even an option, its a pve change. If you think afflic/dk doesn't do burst and all their damage is constant and theres no need for a silence immunity cd your insane. My dk ran that and dark soul + gargoyle is insane burst pressure. You are saccing one of your best defensive cds with your only silence immunity (see landing kills) for a minor passive DR.

    Locks survivability will be alot like mages in 5.4 IMO; more of a shift to active survivability than passive through cc and portals.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by thisnamesucks View Post
    The reason why locks are "tanky" is because of their multiple strong D cds/heals and portal to your pillar mobility as well as a passive DR. A lock caught in the open gets dropped faster than any other caster than a mage. Soul link won't be viable against most any teams unless they magically buff pet survivability, and bargain is pretty much required. The howl baseline change is very nice, but thats again more active survivability through cc, in terms of pure survivability locks will be very low. Especially with the change making fel flame not extend dots and nightfall not procing as many soulshards when your multi dotting, melee will sit on our face and truck us and our damage will be lower. Outside of cds and SL locks will be the absolute squishiest thing you can be: cloth with no Dr and no armor increase.

    The UR glyph isnt even an option, its a pve change. If you think afflic/dk doesn't do burst and all their damage is constant and theres no need for a silence immunity cd your insane. My dk ran that and dark soul + gargoyle is insane burst pressure. You are saccing one of your best defensive cds with your only silence immunity (see landing kills) for a minor passive DR.

    Locks survivability will be alot like mages in 5.4 IMO; more of a shift to active survivability than passive through cc and portals.
    "Pure survivability"?? I dont get it, does this mean while you sit in the open dc'd? Portal means that even while were pretty safe. IO know I pillar hump pretty hard while my portal is down.

    We will have as many instants as ever with the SS change. Casting UA once means their whole team can be fully dotted, instantly. And its a quick cast that is easy to juke with (glyphed).

    Active survivability = survivability? If we have the tools to be tanky, it means were tanky. Some of mages cd's are risky/tricky to use (temporal shield or time warp for example) as they need to be timed really well, and can end up not working if dispelled or they can simply die before they have time to kick in. Lock defensive cd's need to be used, but they are much more straightforward.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by junn View Post
    "Pure survivability"?? I dont get it, does this mean while you sit in the open dc'd? Portal means that even while were pretty safe. IO know I pillar hump pretty hard while my portal is down.

    We will have as many instants as ever with the SS change. Casting UA once means their whole team can be fully dotted, instantly. And its a quick cast that is easy to juke with (glyphed).

    Active survivability = survivability? If we have the tools to be tanky, it means were tanky. Some of mages cd's are risky/tricky to use (temporal shield or time warp for example) as they need to be timed really well, and can end up not working if dispelled or they can simply die before they have time to kick in. Lock defensive cd's need to be used, but they are much more straightforward.

    I suppose that was worded kinda weird. What I meant was you get a lock into a burstable position like a stunlock or smokebomb or caught without a port and they drop like a rock. Their survivability is shifting to be completely active; mages are similar but mages are given 2 iceblocks as backups for when they get caught. Without bargain locks will have the have their shit together or get dropped easily in a chain cc.

    I am kind of worried about the SS change; sure you can get a good start and fully dot a team with instants but keeping them rolling is going to suck since it wont refresh the duration on the swapped target. I cant swap a 2 second UA and get a full duration one anymore so swapping all over the place will get your dots up but it won't keep them up very long, especially with the shift to more cc oriented stuff and things like harvest life if you choose to take it which is more GCDs than before. Loss of mobility with the loss of KJC sucks too but double dark souls will be crazy for starting pressure. Locks will be fine in 5.4 but I worry about melee trains on a lock; even right now if I have like a feral/hunter sitting on me I drop incredibly fast if I don't have a cd up and even when I do, gonna be even worse in 5.4 especially if warriors make a semi-comeback.

  18. #18
    Only good changes for locks in 5.4 is return of the old Soul Link and Howl of Terror being baseline for all specs

    Fel Armor change is quite bad and that new UR glyph is a joke.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Stedy View Post
    Pve wise soul leach (the "nerf" will not even be noticed) if you can get to the 15% cap that's a 100k shield in pve
    Except more than a few fights support shield stacking, followed by damage - and a 650k shield > 100k shield.

    Our ehp goes down via soul leach cap, fel armour (10% ehp nerf) and soul link (~3% ehp nerf*).

    *Excluding other mitigation, soul link nerf is:
    5.3 soul link = ~650k hp + ~150k hp pet, so ~800k ehp.
    5.4 soul link = ~650k hp + pet can lose 130k hp before I die, so ~780k ehp.

    On the upside, a boss can't 1shot my pet *and* kill me via soul link damage anymore.

    The portal changes are a raid nerf, not a warlock nerf - so no problem there. Much prefer to be balanced around damage rather than utility - but they nerfed the other things too
    Last edited by rijn dael; 2013-09-06 at 02:54 AM.

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