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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shepherd57 View Post
    I would think that 10m world first is more of an accomplishment because mistakes are less forgiving than in 25m. However, I am not a bleeding edge raider so what do I know.
    I personally look at them as separate races. With how different the 2 types are, trying to combine them is silly imo. Getting WF for either size is still extremely impressive.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Shepherd57 View Post
    I would think that 10m world first is more of an accomplishment because mistakes are less forgiving than in 25m. However, I am not a bleeding edge raider so what do I know.
    Single mistakes are more forgiving in 25, but two and a half times more mistakes are made.

    (In practice even more, because if you do 10m with a 25m group, the 15 worst players get benched.)

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Taiphon View Post
    Single mistakes are more forgiving in 25, but two and a half times more mistakes are made.

    (In practice even more, because if you do 10m with a 25m group, the 15 worst players get benched.)
    This basically. It really frustrates me when people suggest that 25 man is easier BECAUSE of that reason. It's just stupid. Math is hard.

    Don't get me wrong I do not hate on 10 mans. In fact I like 10 mans much better than 25 mans, but I do not agree with spreading useless, wrong and biassed facts which are so wrong from a common sense standpoint. It frustrates me. :P

  4. #204
    Let's have the "Ithink10m25mareequal/10mdoesntcount/Ithink10mcountsmore/Ithinktheyreseparateraces/25mdoesntcount/whocaresaboutwfrace" thing going on like last tiers coz that was so productive.
    Or don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRet

    "This server shutdown was so epic not even Illidan was prepared for it"

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Vorondil View Post
    Except for the fact they [Paragon] farmed ToT 25m normal last week so they would have max gear, any TRUE 10m raid will never ever have this much gear after 1 week of 10m clearing.
    Source? Seems to me they only did 10man. Wowprogress may be wrong of course.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Shazzabooey View Post
    Source? Seems to me they only did 10man. Wowprogress may be wrong of course.
    They did 3 10m runs.
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRet

    "This server shutdown was so epic not even Illidan was prepared for it"

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    This basically. It really frustrates me when people suggest that 25 man is easier BECAUSE of that reason. It's just stupid. Math is hard.

    Don't get me wrong I do not hate on 10 mans. In fact I like 10 mans much better than 25 mans, but I do not agree with spreading useless, wrong and biassed facts which are so wrong from a common sense standpoint. It frustrates me. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Taiphon View Post
    Single mistakes are more forgiving in 25, but two and a half times more mistakes are made.

    (In practice even more, because if you do 10m with a 25m group, the 15 worst players get benched.)
    Also need to account for the fact that its easier to make a mistake in 25 man as an individual player. In the raid, because there is more stuff to dodge and such. (e.g., 4 stone guardians instead of 3, triple the stuff being thrown at the ground, more people you have to be aware of, etc.). I think most people can't wrap their head around the concept.

  8. #208
    At least Vodkadus is as bad at kill screenshots as our guild -_-;

  9. #209
    This is off-topic but was there this many 10 vs 25 debate in T11, 12 and 13? In T14 there atleast was this debate without thunderforged gear etc.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by kazih View Post
    Let's have the "Ithink10m25mareequal/10mdoesntcount/Ithink10mcountsmore/Ithinktheyreseparateraces/25mdoesntcount/whocaresaboutwfrace" thing going on like last tiers coz that was so productive.
    Or don't.
    What else do we talk about? It will probably be a bit before the EU guilds start downing Council.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Amsden View Post
    What else do we talk about? It will probably be a bit before the EU guilds start downing Council.
    1. Get back to work

    2. if no job, get one

  12. #212
    Method 3/13

  13. #213

  14. #214
    method decided to kill council on 10man according to wowprogress.

  15. #215
    as several have said before hand, thats likely due to not enough members logging out and updating the armoury

  16. #216
    No, it's just a bug with wowprogress. It'll be fixed pretty soon.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rekkiem View Post
    1. Get back to work

    2. if no job, get one
    1. I work at night...

    2. It's 10:15am...
    Last edited by Amsden; 2013-03-13 at 03:21 PM.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Amsden View Post
    I personally look at them as separate races. With how different the 2 types are, trying to combine them is silly imo. Getting WF for either size is still extremely impressive.
    You are probably right, and the majority of playerbase has a similar opinion, I suppose, basically because everyone is smart enough to understand that's impossible to tune an encounter to be the same difficulty in both 10 and 25m, let alone a whole tier.
    But what if someone asks you "who got T14 WF?" the answer is Paragon, and that's a fact... It doesn't matter if you think the races are separate or 10m is not "the challenge": first is first.

    On a different matter: looks like the 3rd and the 6th bosses are the hardest to beat right now, I see some kind of pattern right there.
    Last edited by noskillz; 2013-03-13 at 03:29 PM.

  19. #219
    Method already on place 3, only 5 hours after eu server came up they are on 3/13
    Currently playing MMO's: ESO --- Played MMO's before: WoW, Wildstar, Tibia, Meridian59, ultima Online, EQ, Rift, Lotro, GW2, AOC, WHO, EQ2, SW:TOR

  20. #220
    Sorry to burst the 25 man bandwagon but ToT fights so far are way way way way way harder on 10 than 25. Council is pretty much impossible for 10 man guilds at this point(incredibly overtuned. Maybe intentional?). Even Horridon is probably the most difficult fight to date. Having literally your entire raid (including tanks) with ghost dinos is absolutely unreal.

    Proof is in the pudding. Only one US 10 man guild was able to complete Horridon. And even DREAM Paragon (up to the time of this post) have been stuck on council for FOUR hours.

    Not that I'm complaining. Having a difficult tier is what everyone wanted and what everyone got. I'm loving it so far. Just really hate when people rag on 10 man raiding as if its less of a challenge.

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