1. #3501
    Quote Originally Posted by Justwait View Post
    Considering 25 gives higher ilevel and has increased health,but 10 man does not, and you can do both 10 and 25 - It's something totally different if that guild also has 25m gear
    yes, they has 25m heroic gears, but gratz to them too

  2. #3502
    Ra'den is just a bonus boss. Lei Shen was the bad guy in this tier, and it fell down already.
    Ra'den will propably fall when raids are in full bis gear, perhaps even after valor upgrade returns in 5.3 to give them even more DPS.
    It will be like heroic elite protectors of the endless. It went down way after sha of fear but did somebody cared? I remember top 3 for sha of fear hc, i don't even know who killed protectors HC elite world first.

  3. #3503
    Quote Originally Posted by Esubane View Post
    I remember top 3 for sha of fear hc, i don't even know who killed protectors HC elite world first.
    An asian guilds with countless spriests, mages and locks involved in the kill.
    I know Ra-Den is a bonus boss with limited attempts/week, so it's out of the race in some way... but still:a heroic-only boss, with no description on the journal, that most of us will probably be able to see only at the end of MoP. I am excited, and I do care... it's something like Der Richter in FFX, if you know what I mean

  4. #3504
    Quote Originally Posted by noskillz View Post
    An asian guilds with countless spriests, mages and locks involved in the kill.
    Which wasn't even pre-nerf, right? That encounter was grossly overtuned. Remeber they had significantly higher gear levels too (IIRC Paragon and other guilds didn't even bother with it before the nerf).

  5. #3505
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    Which wasn't even pre-nerf, right? That encounter was grossly overtuned. Remeber they had significantly higher gear levels too (IIRC Paragon and other guilds didn't even bother with it before the nerf).
    It was one or two days before the nerf. So they were the only ones in the world killing it pre-nerf.

    But yes, they got 8 ilvls higher gear, shorter resets. But the bosses themselves does 8% more dmg and has 8% more health aswell if i remember correctly. Cant tell you if it was harder or easier then the west version.

  6. #3506
    Quote Originally Posted by Esubane View Post
    Ra'den is just a bonus boss. Lei Shen was the bad guy in this tier, and it fell down already.
    Ra'den will propably fall when raids are in full bis gear, perhaps even after valor upgrade returns in 5.3 to give them even more DPS.
    It will be like heroic elite protectors of the endless. It went down way after sha of fear but did somebody cared? I remember top 3 for sha of fear hc, i don't even know who killed protectors HC elite world first.
    Elite Protectors did not give any kind of an achievement or Realm First! Achi for that matter.

    Ra-Den does give Realm First! achi and Lei-Shen didn't (if I'm not wrong here).

    See?

  7. #3507
    Quote Originally Posted by noskillz View Post
    it's something like Der Richter in FFX, if you know what I mean
    Two differences.
    1) Lei Shen is hard while Sin is one of the easiest end boss ever. You can basically kill him in one Combo of Wakka.
    2) Completing FFX requires an absurd quantity of grinding. There are hard encounters in FFX, but Der Richter is not one of them. The fight against Der Richter is just the result of hours of grinding to max out each characteristic of your three main characters. The best way to grind is probably by killing Nemesis but to unlock it you also need to spend hours capturing 10 monters of every species in the game.

    I know that Devai said he didn't like Ra-den, but it can't be that bad.

    On topic, I haven't seen Method/Blood Legion tell how many wipes they spent on Lei Shen. Have I missed the information?

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-03 at 01:27 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadde111 View Post
    It was one or two days before the nerf. So they were the only ones in the world killing it pre-nerf.

    But yes, they got 8 ilvls higher gear, shorter resets. But the bosses themselves does 8% more dmg and has 8% more health aswell if i remember correctly. Cant tell you if it was harder or easier then the west version.
    I'm pretty sure the nerf was effective on their server when the kill happened.
    I remember the long thread about the kill on this forum and several people from asian servers said it.

  8. #3508
    Style has 10+ ilv than paragon,they said it was like 0%buff 10Man-HLK on their own,gratz to them

  9. #3509
    Quote Originally Posted by Senen View Post
    Two differences.
    1) Lei Shen is hard while Sin is one of the easiest end boss ever. You can basically kill him in one Combo of Wakka.
    2) Completing FFX requires an absurd quantity of grinding. There are hard encounters in FFX, but Der Richter is not one of them. The fight against Der Richter is just the result of hours of grinding to max out each characteristic of your three main characters. The best way to grind is probably by killing Nemesis but to unlock it you also need to spend hours capturing 10 monters of every species in the game.
    Of course it's different, you can't compare FF with WoW... But it's a bonus boss, with very little to do with the story (the bad guy is still Lei shen), and unknown to the players, the feeling is almost the same to me *-*.

    Also, from a point of view, Ra-Den is still the hardest boss to beat, because to get there you must kill Lei Shen first (which is the most difficult), and then put some more effort on an additional boss.

  10. #3510
    Quote Originally Posted by Esubane View Post
    Ra'den is just a bonus boss. Lei Shen was the bad guy in this tier, and it fell down already.
    Ra'den will propably fall when raids are in full bis gear, perhaps even after valor upgrade returns in 5.3 to give them even more DPS.
    It will be like heroic elite protectors of the endless. It went down way after sha of fear but did somebody cared? I remember top 3 for sha of fear hc, i don't even know who killed protectors HC elite world first.
    Ra-den has the only realm first achievement this teir.

    Ra-den is tracked by all the ranking sites and is counted as the final boss. Whoever gets him will be #1 on the sites forever, regardless of your opinion.

    Ra-den is a completely new boss, and only accessible to the very best raiders. Anyone could attempt elite protectors at any time.

    My bet is Ra-den drops a signature raid mount, the Armored Bloodwing if I had to guess.

    Ra-den has limited attempts, and for some people it makes a kill more impressive when time is a limiting factor. Atempts/kill is an often ignored but interesting metric.

    Honestly, the comparison is a a bit silly...
    Last edited by Sprucelee; 2013-04-03 at 03:27 PM.
    Fangthorn <Temerity> Windrunner - US

    US #15 @ 3 Days - 12 Hours / Week

  11. #3511
    Quote Originally Posted by Sprucelee View Post
    Ra-den is tracked by all the ranking sites and is counted as the final boss. Whoever gets him will be #1 on the sites forever, regardless of your opinion.
    No. This might be true for the lolprogress.com that all americans like, guildox however does not count Ra-den as the end boss in fact they track him separately like it should be, even top guilds say so bonus boss is just a bonus.

  12. #3512
    Quote Originally Posted by spyke View Post
    No. This might be true for the lolprogress.com that all americans like, guildox however does not count Ra-den as the end boss in fact they track him separately like it should be, even top guilds say so bonus boss is just a bonus.
    Most Europeans use wowprogress. Whenever I see people mention guildox it's when they want to brag about a higher rank than they have at wowprogress. Q: Was Sinestra also "just a bonus"?

  13. #3513
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    Q: Was Sinestra also "just a bonus"?
    Obviously.

    On a more serious note, though, as I understand it, Sinestra was always intended to be the 'final boss' anyway, whereas Ra-den's role isn't quite that.
    Vereesa of Paragon, formerly of Depraved
    WCL

  14. #3514
    It doesn't matter for shit what ranking system wowprogress uses, intelligent people are able to analyze the race themselves without looking at the order at wowprogress and taking it at face value.

    The admin of wowprogress chooses some algorithm for ranking, mostly based on just hoping to be lucky enough that it makes sense at the end. In some cases (such as this tier) it gets changed mid-progress. Just enjoy the race, enjoy the swift updates and good website functionality of wowprogress and use your own brain.

  15. #3515
    Quote Originally Posted by Vereesà View Post
    Obviously.

    On a more serious note, though, as I understand it, Sinestra was always intended to be the 'final boss' anyway, whereas Ra-den's role isn't quite that.
    *Points at the realm first achievement a third time*

    They put it on Ra-den for a reason.

    Even the smallest no-name "server first" race uses this as the end-point for every teir/instance, much less the "world first".
    Last edited by Sprucelee; 2013-04-03 at 06:49 PM.
    Fangthorn <Temerity> Windrunner - US

    US #15 @ 3 Days - 12 Hours / Week

  16. #3516
    Algalon was considered progression, Sinestra was considered progression and Ra-Den will be considered progression. So long as it gives an achievement, a realm first guild FOS and a completion on wowprogress, heroic-only bosses will always be progression. Now you can argue all day about what Blizzard meant when they said "optional" but if any of you are in a guild that is even somewhat serious about heroic progression you better get used to the idea that progression won't stop with H Lei Shen.

  17. #3517
    It seems there's been a 10 man Lei Shen kill in China. Now, apparently the 10 man HP and damage isn't increased as it is on 25 man for Asian servers (which was to offset the significantly higher item levels there) so it's not really comparable. The guild themselves said that the kill wasn't a big deal as it was low difficulty, and they were primarily doing it to get 10 man access to Ra-Den so they could test things out there, to then take that knowledge back to 25 man, as well as getting extra loot and thunderforged items (remember on Asia servers 10 and 25 are separate lockouts).





    wtf

  18. #3518
    Quote Originally Posted by Senen View Post

    On topic, I haven't seen Method/Blood Legion tell how many wipes they spent on Lei Shen. Have I missed the information?
    Affinitii said on his stream last night that Blood Legion took 449 attempts to get Lei-Shen down.

  19. #3519
    Quote Originally Posted by Esubane View Post
    Ra'den is just a bonus boss. Lei Shen was the bad guy in this tier, and it fell down already.
    Ra'den will propably fall when raids are in full bis gear, perhaps even after valor upgrade returns in 5.3 to give them even more DPS.
    It will be like heroic elite protectors of the endless. It went down way after sha of fear but did somebody cared? I remember top 3 for sha of fear hc, i don't even know who killed protectors HC elite world first.
    Hmm No. Ra'den is different to Heroic Protectors Elite. Ra'den is on par with Algalon and Sinestra, a lot of people will care when he dies.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-03 at 10:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Theiea View Post
    Affinitii said on his stream last night that Blood Legion took 449 attempts to get Lei-Shen down.
    I doubt that. It took them 12 days between Consorts and the kill. Another week of reset and they can only pull him 449 times in that window?

  20. #3520
    Quote Originally Posted by Delhunt View Post
    I doubt that. It took them 12 days between Consorts and the kill. Another week of reset and they can only pull him 449 times in that window?
    Between breaks, strategizing, time to rez, replacements, run back, etc, lets say 15 minutes per pull, that's 110+ hours of attempts on Lei Shen alone. Throw in another 10 hours or so worth of farm for the reset and you're looking at 120 hours of raiding over 12 days.

    "Only" raiding 10 hours a day?

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