1. #4001
    Bloodsail Admiral lappee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rigginsbear View Post
    HLK having limited attempts was a very big reason as to the gap between kills. If Lei Shen had 25-50 pulls a week, it would have been up for over a month.
    if lei-shen had a cap of 50 pulls per week like LK HC did, i still think it would've fallen in the same time as it did now (atleast for us). all pull limits do is remove the headless "ok lets just pull" tries and "hey, lets try this weird shit tactic"

    Quote Originally Posted by rigginsbear View Post
    Edit2: Al'akir? rofl wtf. If you would elaborate on that one, I would be very interested to know why you have that on your top 5
    Did you ever pull pre-nerf al'akir for real? if you did, then you should understand

  2. #4002
    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    Did you ever pull pre-nerf al'akir for real? if you did, then you should understand
    This cannot end well... Were did I put my popcorn... Ah, there it is.

    Please, don't mind me, continue.

    Warning: Bit of a spam comment here, add to the conversation instead of trying to entice people with a bait attempt. -Azshira.
    Last edited by Azshira; 2013-04-10 at 08:35 AM.

  3. #4003
    Moderator Azshira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rigginsbear View Post
    Edit2: Al'akir? rofl wtf. If you would elaborate on that one, I would be very interested to know why you have that on your top 5
    Because Al'akir before they changed him was goddamn awful for 25man with the space provided and the mechanics, phase 1 to be much more precise. Search for Paragon's first kill of Al'akir and you'll see they had a chunk of their raid not even fighting the encounter for the first phase because of the incredibly hardness of the encounter with more people on the platform.
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  4. #4004
    Sorry, it was a tentative of disarming the tension with humour, wasn't thinking it could be read at the opposite. My bad.

    On topic A'lakir prenerf was not designed for 25man. At least it seems due to the placement required

  5. #4005
    The fact is none actually cared about Al'akir. Paragon beat everyone by miles on Neffy who was supposed to be the hardest boss among the three, and the race was still on Sinestra. Al'akir was the hardest boss of the tier in its original design, but everyone was focusing the attention elsewhere because nobody got time to spend on such a strange/difficult/insane/stupid (choose one) boss.

  6. #4006
    Bloodsail Admiral Cebel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potentio View Post
    Yet it took them 50% less time to kill it than Ragnaros. Maybe they say it because their rank is better this time around?
    It prob has more to do with the rediculous amount of hours that the top guilds are putting in these days... 16 hour days are not out of the norm when working towards a US/EU/World first these days.

  7. #4007
    Moderator Azshira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixul View Post
    It prob has more to do with the rediculous amount of hours that the top guilds are putting in these days... 16 hour days are not out of the norm when working towards a US/EU/World first these days.
    I agree that this is one of the factors. To my knowledge guilds did not put in such hours back then.
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  8. #4008
    Quote Originally Posted by Azshira View Post
    I agree that this is one of the factors. To my knowledge guilds did not put in such hours back then.
    I'm pretty sure I've put in as much raiding as we did back since Ulduar at least. So that's not really something you can say.
    The longer progress lasts, the less time we spend a day raiding (or well, it stops going down once we`re at evening raids).
    Ulduar and T11 both took long. And then you had ICC which had limited attempts limiting the time you can spend raiding.

  9. #4009
    Stood in the Fire Dranged's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    if lei-shen had a cap of 50 pulls per week like LK HC did, i still think it would've fallen in the same time as it did now (atleast for us). all pull limits do is remove the headless "ok lets just pull" tries and "hey, lets try this weird shit tactic"

    are you suggesting that Ra'den deserves a place on that top5 list seeing as how he is still not defeated?

  10. #4010
    Field Marshal
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    gratz to envy!

    off topic: Does envy still have some players from Ensidia?

  11. #4011
    Quote Originally Posted by Dranged View Post
    are you suggesting that Ra'den deserves a place on that top5 list seeing as how he is still not defeated?
    In what world did he suggest that? Maybe you should read it through again

  12. #4012
    Quote Originally Posted by Dranged View Post
    are you suggesting that Ra'den deserves a place on that top5 list seeing as how he is still not defeated?
    Even if Ultraxion had required full BiS to meet the dps requirement, it wouldn't have been in the list, I guess.
    Same goes for C'thun, that almost nobody put in this kind of list even if he remained undefeated a very long time.

    It's hard to give a proper definition of difficulty in wow since the difficulty is always related to gear but you don't want "difficult" to mean "gear check".

    Anyway, the fact that a boss takes more or less try and/or more or less time does not mean it will figure on these "unforgottable bosses" list.

  13. #4013
    Quote Originally Posted by yinn View Post
    In what world did he suggest that? Maybe you should read it through again
    Because Lappe is saying that limited attempts have little impact on the lifespan of a boss, meaning that Ra-den has survived longer than Lei Shen and Ragnaros due to his difficulty and not due to the limited attempts.

  14. #4014
    I don't know what Lappe personally thinks of Ra'den, but just because a boss has a longer lifespan doesn't mean it's a welldesigned and enjoyable boss, afaik people that are on it find it buggy, boring and that gear will help out A LOT, Sejtas comment about the legendary backs for example.

  15. #4015
    Quote Originally Posted by Brunhild View Post
    gratz to envy!

    off topic: Does envy still have some players from Ensidia?
    Thanks! and yes we still have Caleb :P

  16. #4016
    Field Marshal Insincere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sockem View Post
    Because Lappe is saying that limited attempts have little impact on the lifespan of a boss, meaning that Ra-den has survived longer than Lei Shen and Ragnaros due to his difficulty and not due to the limited attempts.
    Ra-dens survived this long more due to the amount of bugs than the limited attempts I think.

  17. #4017
    Bloodsail Admiral lappee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dranged View Post
    are you suggesting that Ra'den deserves a place on that top5 list seeing as how he is still not defeated?
    ra-den isnt complex fight (aka not "hard" in that sense), it just needs gear.

  18. #4018
    Field Marshal Jhazrun's Avatar
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    You know how people talk about how you could just make a piece of rock with a billion health and damage and call it "hard"?

    Ra-den is what you get when a designer thinks that's actually a really good idea.

  19. #4019
    Quote Originally Posted by Jhazrun View Post
    You know how people talk about how you could just make a piece of rock with a billion health and damage and call it "hard"?

    Ra-den is what you get when a designer thinks that's actually a really good idea.

    http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/ga...in-browder.jpg

    Infracted; Don't post off-topic images (by Sonnillon).
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2013-04-10 at 12:23 PM.

  20. #4020
    Quote Originally Posted by Jhazrun View Post
    You know how people talk about how you could just make a piece of rock with a billion health and damage and call it "hard"?

    Ra-den is what you get when a designer thinks that's actually a really good idea.
    And people who never saw the fight would still claim that said rock was the best boss ever because he was oh-so-unkillable and challenging.

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