1. #1381
    Quote Originally Posted by xiic View Post
    Go watch Method's heroic dark animus kill, they had at least two people die and still made the insane dps check.
    I'd go watch it but such a video doesn't exist (publicly)

  2. #1382
    Pandaren Monk Bantokar's Avatar
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    So, how would a 25 man team made up of all the best in the world look? Let´s call it the allstar team, best player in every spot. Language barriers, us/eu etc left out. Just the 25 top dogs.
    8 year olds Dude.

  3. #1383
    Stood in the Fire aarro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikoslav View Post
    you are lame, cos you only raid LFR and you still feel entitled to call one of the most extremely skilled and organized raid teams - lame.
    I never called paragon anything at all LOLLLLL!! Why would I!? My argument is with 10 & 25 raids no matter who the guilds are.... learn to read pal
    Last edited by aarro; 2013-03-19 at 06:07 PM.

  4. #1384
    It is a good thing that the top guilds are getting though most of the heroics in the first week (that they are up). This means it is tuned such that most of these encounters can be done without heroic raid level gear. No need to farm up massive amounts of gear from previous bosses so that you even stand a chance at the harder ones. LK heroic was complete BS in that you needed pretty much a full set of BiS gear to get him down without the instance nerf (it was what 15% before the first kill)? I'm glad Blizzard has moved away from gear dependence and more towards skill.

  5. #1385
    Stood in the Fire lappee's Avatar
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    last few posts state that the encounters are equally hard, but its just more difficult to get 25 good enough players
    Last edited by lappee; 2013-03-19 at 06:09 PM.

  6. #1386
    It should be obvious to most people that 10/25 will NEVER be perfectly balanced towards each other and shouldn’t be pinned against one another, but hey Fanboyism will outshine reason.

    We could also change the word 25man → Christianity and 10man → Islam and we would have a pretty standard religious debate

  7. #1387
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    last few posts state that the encounters are equally hard, but its just more difficult to get 25 good enough players
    New signature.

  8. #1388
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Please keep your posts civil and drop the 10 is lame/25 is lame/10 is harder/25 is harder debate. Thanks!
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  9. #1389
    Quote Originally Posted by Radalek View Post
    Not entirely true on most of bosses but absolutely true on hardest bosses, those that define one tier. Trust me, one slight mistake, slightly bad positioning, lagspike or anything in first 4 minutes on Dark Animus by any of the 25 people and your raid is gone. Same goes for Rag heroic or any other really hard boss which automatically makes it harder to deal with in 25 man raid than for their 10 man counterparts. For that reason Blizz will never be able to tune bosses equally.
    As soon as boss has any mechanic that can wipe the raid if one person fails to deal with it difficulty shifts to 25 man.
    that is not the definition of HARDER. If you cannot move yourself properly in 25man .... neither can you in 10 man. Harder would mean that this error that makes a 25 man raid go wipe, wouldn't make a 10 man go wipe.

    25 man requires more logistical care i would say. taking care of 25 man is harder than 10 man, and so you get more wipe not because the boss are harders, but because you have 2,5 more chance that someone makes it wrong. But correct me if i m wrong someone who keeps messing up his positioning at their level (10 man or 25) isn't kept long time

    25 men requires more dps? i bet any 25 man raiders that they won't make as much dps in 10 man

  10. #1390
    This "10man isnt world first" is grinding my gears

    Paragon kills Lei Shen before ANYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD, its world first. Stop being logically backwards.
    Will be the same if a 25man guild killed it first too. First is First, regardless.

  11. #1391
    Quote Originally Posted by Drayarr View Post
    This "10man isnt world first" is grinding my gears

    Paragon kills Lei Shen before ANYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD, its world first. Stop being logically backwards.
    Will be the same if a 25man guild killed it first too. First is First, regardless.
    It'll be nothing more than a 10 man world first. There's no "overall" WF.
    Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

  12. #1392
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    It'll be nothing more than a 10 man world first. There's no "overall" WF.
    Logically incorrect.
    If someone does it first, before anyone else, that is WORLD FIRST.
    I cannot comprehend the mental capacity of people who think that a 10man kill isn't world first when it clearly is.

  13. #1393
    Quote Originally Posted by ColbaneX View Post
    Global Consensus.

    Hardest Language to Learn to Speak: English
    You live in a weird world (dimension?), but definitely not in my world.
    English is one of the easiest language to learn. It's easy to speak AND easy to write.

  14. #1394
    Quote Originally Posted by Drayarr View Post
    Logically incorrect.
    If someone does it first, before anyone else, that is WORLD FIRST.
    I cannot comprehend the mental capacity of people who think that a 10man kill isn't world first when it clearly is.
    Logically incorrect, there are 2 bosses who share the same name. They are not equal. Therefore there is no "overall" first kill.

  15. #1395
    Quote Originally Posted by Senen View Post
    You live in a weird world (dimension?), but definitely not in my world.
    English is one of the easiest language to learn. It's easy to speak AND easy to write.
    Badly yes. To master its one of the hardest as it has so many ass backwards ways of doing stuff. I before E except after C. Except for a whole bunch of words...

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-19 at 06:30 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by nehunter View Post
    Logically incorrect, there are 2 bosses who share the same name. They are not equal. Therefore there is no "overall" first kill.
    Thus no World first for anyone then by that logic?

  16. #1396
    Watching an incredible race like this, while seeing this commentary about 10/25 US/EU is sad. It's like Troy Aikman and Joe Buck broadcasting the Superbowl, and in the middle of everything, they're stuck arguing over which coach has the hottest wife, or which position requires the most yoga.

    Who gives a crap! This is a great race. These teams are the best in the world, spending every possible minute on content that's brand new. We're gonna get some of the best nerdscream videos we've ever seen when this is over. Isn't anyone AT ALL excited for the race itself?

    We have the best guild in the world (Paragon) versus the best 25m guild in the world (Method) versus the best American guild (Blood Legion) versus the Russian upstarts (Exorsus) all fighting right now for the last couple bosses, and they're just about even. There isn't any massive gap this tier, they're going back and forth for WF's. That's freaking awesome.

    Just let it be awesome.

  17. #1397
    Quote Originally Posted by php View Post
    that is not the definition of HARDER. If you cannot move yourself properly in 25man .... neither can you in 10 man. Harder would mean that this error that makes a 25 man raid go wipe, wouldn't make a 10 man go wipe.

    25 man requires more logistical care i would say. taking care of 25 man is harder than 10 man, and so you get more wipe not because the boss are harders, but because you have 2,5 more chance that someone makes it wrong. But correct me if i m wrong someone who keeps messing up his positioning at their level (10 man or 25) isn't kept long time

    25 men requires more dps? i bet any 25 man raiders that they won't make as much dps in 10 man
    Harder has a very broad definition.
    It can go as far that what its harder for 10 at top 10 ranks in the world is getting harder for 25 under rank 2000.

    Also the fact that the boss requires 25 ppl to kill goes together with the fact that out of those people more mistakes will happen...That makes the boss himself as hard (if the ratio is at excactly 2,5:1), easier (if the fatal mistakes are at a ratio of less than 2,5:1) and harder (you can guess when)...

    There is no rule which one is harder at top level. It can happen to be 10 or 25 as the past, and obviously the present clearly demonstrate.
    They re just different...
    Method was not so much better than Paragon to get Animus hours faster, neither Paragon became supercharged team of aliens after clearing Animus to get Qon and right after Twins as well while Method was strugling at them for hours, and still does even now, 30+hours after Paragon did the kill.
    They are different, and things like those make any attempt to talk about "the one race" to look entirely stupid to any person without fanboysm and some common sence.

    There is only one rule.
    The more you go down the progression ladder, the harder an encounter is becoming for 25s.
    That is why you need a microscope to find any 10.000 rank or lower 25 in the progress rankings, together with the fact that the better skilled people of that team will get rid of the worse and get a couple of thousand spots better progress and the gear from the extra kills.
    Last edited by Archidamos; 2013-03-19 at 06:36 PM.

  18. #1398
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    It'll be nothing more than a 10 man world first. There's no "overall" WF.
    Gawd... it IS an overall world first. The first vehicle to go over 1000 km/h (or mph w/e) is the first vehicle, be it a bicycle a plane or a car. Of course you can't compare a plane to a bicycle, but the point still holds.

    There's no "overall" WF race on the other hand is a whole other argument, and one that only count for those that care tbh. But there IS an overall WF it's just a fact...

  19. #1399
    Quote Originally Posted by Neolol View Post
    Gawd... it IS an overall world first. The first vehicle to go over 1000 km/h (or mph w/e) is the first vehicle, be it a bicycle a plane or a car. Of course you can't compare a plane to a bicycle, but the point still holds.

    There's no "overall" WF race on the other hand is a whole other argument, and one that only count for those that care tbh. But there IS an overall WF it's just a fact...
    Vehicles are:

    rockets
    cycles
    cars


    Now, a rocket going over 1000 km/h is not a big deal, while a car or especially a cycle would be glorious. DIFFERENT VEHICLES, ARE NOT EQUAL.
    Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

  20. #1400
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neolol View Post
    Gawd... it IS an overall world first. The first vehicle to go over 1000 km/h (or mph w/e) is the first vehicle, be it a bicycle a plane or a car. Of course you can't compare a plane to a bicycle, but the point still holds.

    There's no "overall" WF race on the other hand is a whole other argument, and one that only count for those that care tbh. But there IS an overall WF it's just a fact...
    No. That is where I have to disagree. You don't say "world first object to go 1000 km/h", you say first car or first plane or first train.

    But since this is raiding, raid team size is meaningless. If a 25 man does it, it's World First. If a 10 man does it first, it is still World First
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