1. #2001
    Quote Originally Posted by Potentio View Post
    Would be awesome if he survived another reset. Not for my guild though
    That must be sooo tiring for the WF guilds :O

    they have to keep trying and the number of wipes they've had on the boss must be soul shattering.

  2. #2002
    Stood in the Fire Haizer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atrophis View Post
    Not as far as i know. It was only on for firelands i think.
    As far as I know they still have separate 10 and 25man lockouts and 8 ilvl higher. Personally I don't think the small health and damage boost makes up for the huge amount of advantage they have over us. They play a totally different type of raiding over there and shouldn't be counted in with the US and EU.

  3. #2003
    Quote Originally Posted by Haizer View Post
    As far as I know they still have separate 10 and 25man lockouts and 8 ilvl higher. Personally I don't think the small health and damage boost makes up for the huge amount of advantage they have over us. They play a totally different type of raiding over there and shouldn't be counted in with the US and EU.
    Yup they are considered to be a seperate race by most people.

    I don't think they have a huge advantage in terms of gear vs encounter difficulty though.

    They have 8% increased health/damage on the bosses that I don't think the extra ilvls cover.

    Not sure about the math though, and any personal experience is going to be skewed towards one side

  4. #2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Akylios View Post
    It's probably even harder to compare the Asian guilds to the 'West' guilds, than it is to compare 25m guilds to 10m guilds.
    Why? It's easier to retune a fight for a different item level than it is to retune it for a completely different amount of players surely. Because with the later they have to modify mechanics and not just damage/healing values.

    That said, it's not a good idea to compare any of them directly, they're all separate brackets with separate tuning and separate races..

  5. #2005
    Quote Originally Posted by laserguns View Post
    Why? It's easier to retune a fight for a different item level than it is to retune it for a completely different amount of players surely. Because with the later they have to modify mechanics and not just damage/healing values.

    That said, it's not a good idea to compare any of them directly, they're all separate brackets with separate tuning and separate races..
    It would be a different kind of retuning, and with higher ilvls, stats scaling will be insane and to compensate for that, they will need to make some mechanics even more punishing and such.

    Healing will be different there as well. Think of how most things had to 2 shot tanks because healing was too powerful.

    Mechanics wise, raid wide AOE burst damage will need to be tuned in regards to the CDs that a raid will have, the maximum health a player can have, and the amount of time it takes for the healers to top the raid off before the next AOE burst.

    Think interrupting Jolt in Dark Animus.

    Raid health doesnt scale as well as healing(secondary stats), so they can't do too much damage (or else it will require multiple raid CDs per jolt which may not be available) but if the damage is too low, then the healers with better gear will have an easier time topping people off.

    From what I've seen in Ground Zero's stream, it seemed like Every Interrupting Jolt brought the raid to brink of death(even with CDs), while on method's kill video it seemed like most people had 30% health.

    Of course, I dont have first hand experience and there may have been something I missed in the video/streams and the 2 raids cycled different CDs so it looked like method took much less damage.
    Last edited by BLSTMASTER; 2013-03-23 at 09:07 PM.

  6. #2006
    Logical thinking => they should not be allowed to kill the last boss until they reached the correct ilvl, thus taking 1 month /hope

  7. #2007
    Quote Originally Posted by BLSTMASTER View Post
    Yup they are considered to be a seperate race by most people.

    I don't think they have a huge advantage in terms of gear vs encounter difficulty though.

    They have 8% increased health/damage on the bosses that I don't think the extra ilvls cover.

    Not sure about the math though, and any personal experience is going to be skewed towards one side
    The math shows that the gear alone provides them with a bigger advantage than us. Gear ilvl works like this -
    Say you have an item with 1K stamina. You get the same item, 1 level higher. It'll now have 1010 stamina. You level it up once more, so it's now level 2. It'll get another 1% increase, 1010+10.1, or 1020.1.
    It's a minor thing, but the advantage falls to the asians, as the bosses are "only" getting 8% more dmg/hp, while their gear gets exponentially stronger.

    Add things like haste-softcaps (specific points where a DoT will tick once more for casters) that are more easily aviable due to bigger amount of stats on higher level gear (giving them crazy dps boosts when triggering a new tick), the fact that they can farm both 10 and 25 man every week for extra gear (tier tokens and trinkets for one, giving them even bigger dps boosts), and you've got something that can't even be remotely compared .

  8. #2008
    Quote Originally Posted by BLSTMASTER View Post
    From what I've seen in Ground Zero's stream, it seemed like Every Interrupting Jolt brought the raid to brink of death(even with CDs), while on method's kill video it seemed like most people had 30% health.
    Do you have a link to the stream? Please

  9. #2009
    Quote Originally Posted by darksun View Post
    Logical thinking => they should not be allowed to kill the last boss until they reached the correct ilvl, thus taking 1 month /hope
    If it would take these guilds 1 month to kill Lei Shen, we probably wouldn't see a kill outside the top 50 until the next tier. I don't think that is Blizzard's intention. And no the other guilds won't simply kill it because they get 10 more ilvls.

  10. #2010
    Quote Originally Posted by Daear View Post
    If it would take these guilds 1 month to kill Lei Shen, we probably wouldn't see a kill outside the top 50 until the next tier. I don't think that is Blizzard's intention. And no the other guilds won't simply kill it because they get 10 more ilvls.
    Even if it took the top50 that long to kill H-Lei Shen, once videos were out and all the strat details and mechanic intricacies were laid out, better strats for the lower ranked guilds would make it somewhat easier.

    And 10ilvl of gear can go a long way.
    Jsz
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  11. #2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Daear View Post
    If it would take these guilds 1 month to kill Lei Shen, we probably wouldn't see a kill outside the top 50 until the next tier. I don't think that is Blizzard's intention. And no the other guilds won't simply kill it because they get 10 more ilvls.
    Maybe but...you're aware that the moment 5.3 hits anyone that stacked up 3k valor points will be able to upgrade 8 pieces of gear by 8 ilvl on the first reset? Followed by 2 pieces of gear each following reset. Once that happen you can consider content being severely nerfed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    No, I'm roundly rejecting your idea that LFR isn't raiding.
    The raiding scene is larger than in wrath - because LFR is raiding. It replaces the pugs that were a feature of Wotlk.
    Tell you what, I remove LFR and you remove pugs.
    What the actual f...

  12. #2012
    Quote Originally Posted by Radalek View Post
    Maybe but...you're aware that the moment 5.3 hits anyone that stacked up 3k valor points will be able to upgrade 8 pieces of gear by 8 ilvl on the first reset? Followed by 2 pieces of gear each following reset. Once that happen you can consider content being severely nerfed.
    Only 375 valor for an upgrade in 5.3? Also 8 ilevels instead of 4 in 5.3? Does that mean they've effectively quadrupled the bang for your buck upgrading or just that maths and you aren't friends?

  13. #2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Only 375 valor for an upgrade in 5.3? Also 8 ilevels instead of 4 in 5.3? Does that mean they've effectively quadrupled the bang for your buck upgrading or just that maths and you aren't friends?
    its 250 per 4 ilevs x2, s 6 items with saved up valor + farm fresh 1k for the reset, so yea, 8 items. i think he is friends with math just fine, you on the other hand..

  14. #2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by TyrianFC View Post
    Link to stream pls?
    this. Even tho we wont understand. still would like to see what it looks like

  15. #2015
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarevokcz View Post
    its 250 per 4 ilevs x2, s 6 items with saved up valor + farm fresh 1k for the reset, so yea, 8 items. i think he is friends with math just fine, you on the other hand..
    If they don't reset valor then you can have every item 2/2 upgraded in a month of 5.3 which is pretty crazy.

  16. #2016
    Quote Originally Posted by Frykor View Post
    If they don't reset valor then you can have every item 2/2 upgraded in a month of 5.3 which is pretty crazy.
    I think that's the intention. They want it to be feasible to be able to upgrade all of your gear, and to not feel forced to wait to upgrade certain pieces that might be replaced soon but the piece ends up not dropping, or stuff like that.

  17. #2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by whathump View Post
    I think that's the intention. They want it to be feasible to be able to upgrade all of your gear, and to not feel forced to wait to upgrade certain pieces that might be replaced soon but the piece ends up not dropping, or stuff like that.
    yes, and I also think that they dont want to "force" people having to cap valor basically till the end of the tier every single week in order to still upgrade.

  18. #2018
    yeh i'm happy about the valor change nothing more annoying than using 1500 vp on a weapon (which EVERYONE should) biggest upgrade by far then the same week you get a new weapon...kiss 1500 vp goodbye a total waste, now its only 500 vp so you only lost half a reset not 1.5 resets of valor.

  19. #2019
    I would like to know how far the contacts between the top guilds are...
    We see now the switch between 2 key members of Envy to Method..angry people ??..maybe but it doesn't take much time to see there are a lot of connections between the 2 guilds.

    Paladin who joins/leaves Method has also a char in a guild on alliance side EU-Auchindoun, that guild also has some people with un enxpained Heroic kills, if you look closer you see them switching Horde to Envy en back again.
    There are even some of the same names in both guilds...and it's a rather unusual name so it would surprise me if that was not the same person.

    Are the big guilds in close contact with another ?? (even if it's friendly contact outside the world first competition)

  20. #2020
    Brewmaster Rinoa's Avatar
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    Perhaps it's best to stop speculating. I'm sure we'll get a proper answer after progression is done. There are many, many possible answers - and none of them do any harm to us, so we might as well just be patient about it.
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