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  1. #281
    I am Murloc! Thelxi's Avatar
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    It sucks that alts are hit in the face with huge weekly lockouts and timesinks yes, but there is a way around it. Honor gear can bring you up to 476, and with the 522 valor necklace + 1 run of all the LFRs you can very easily hit 480 in a week. If you get very unlucky with drops, do the treasure cove scenario thing on thunder island for charms, I got 19 charms and a 502 belt from my first run.

    My recently dinged pala went from 458 ilvl to 483 in a couple of days, so at least there is a way now albeit sneaky through pvp.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    It sucks that alts are hit in the face with huge weekly lockouts and timesinks yes, but there is a way around it. Honor gear can bring you up to 476, and with the 522 valor necklace + 1 run of all the LFRs you can very easily hit 480 in a week. If you get very unlucky with drops, do the treasure cove scenario thing on thunder island for charms, I got 19 charms and a 502 belt from my first run.

    My recently dinged pala went from 458 ilvl to 483 in a couple of days, so at least there is a way now albeit sneaky through pvp.
    Isn't needing to do PVP to PVE kinda..fucking stupid?

    Like if I have no interest in PVP and just wanna PVE why should I need to go buy PVP gear and do PVP just to get into PVE?

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayehn View Post
    Anybody who says LFR is a reliable way to gear up is full of it. Even with the increase to drop rates I managed to run three characters though all the wings they could (total of 14 wings) and only found one upgrade. I know they doubled the chance for loot to drop but this is beyond fucking frustrating to have gear acquisition be so goddamn random. I'm fucking tired of having a chance after a boss kill for something.

    This is one of the big reasons people shit all over D3 when they hit endgame. An upgrade could drop in one hour or it could drop in 1000, but every time that piece doesn't it just piles on the frustration.
    What about the VP earned from those unlucky LFR runs? Could that, perhaps, not have bought you some upgrades? I mean lets put things into context here; Ha of Anger drops 476 boots and the new Shado -Pan faction has a 522 necklace which can be bought immediately. Assuming an ilvl of 440 or thereabouts when you ding in each socket you are about ilvl 447. Each new piece of the half price VP gear, providing all your sockets remain at a static 440, would increase a further 3 ilvls making the unluckiest person in the world, who receives no LFR gear, does no PvP, can't get into a normal group, cannot afford BoEs or crafted items, would take about 11 weeks to reach 480. That's the difference between the endgame of WoW and Diablo 3; if it's taking you too long to gear up then there are things you are not doing to help you gear up.

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordredofmia View Post
    I just recently dinged my rogue(alt) to 90 and after I finished doing the Klaxxi dailies I cancelled my sub. I'm not doing the golden lotus dailies ever again, that was some of the most boring and poorly designed shit i have ever played in my life. There is just far too much gating in the game. The rep gating of valor rewards at the start was absolutely unacceptable and the lack of catch-up dungeons in the plan for Mists just doesn't give me any incentive to keep paying $15 a month so I can run LFR over and over and over again. It's stupid.

    In Wraith, my character hit 80, had enough gear to run into heroics. Then I did heroics until I had enough gear to get into a VOA or ICC Pug. Then I got to have fun playing the current content with everyone else. I didn't have to allocate an hour or more a day to do dailies, I didn't have to allocate two or more hours(queue plus raid) to run LFR to get my once a week chance at increasing my ilvl. I didn't have to run a myriad of poorly designed daily quests to spend my valor points, which back there didn't trickle in worthlessly and emblems of frost felt important and valuable to spend. don't understand the mindset of some many elitist miserable snobs on this forum. Why does the game have to be a tedious bore? Why do you need other people to suffer through some miserable bullshit so your achievements have merit. If you think that way, your brain is simply wired the wrong way and you'll be here on this sinking ship that's bleeding subs telling the frigging botters to go run LFR so you have people to pug with, so the queues for everything don't take forever. And you will deserve it.

    This is such a better system then the current one. Because LFR isn't content. It's a sleepwalk. It is so much more fun to just get killed in LFR then to actually participate. The fight will get done in the same amount of time with or without you. There are no mechanics. There is no communication. It's a single player experience. It doesn't teach you how to raid because it teaches you that there are no consequences, that your input doesn't matter, that if you or another player just goes AFK the boss will still die and you'll still get loot. Daily quests don't teach you how to play your class, they teach you the fastest route between quest giver and objective and back.

    5 man dungeons there is at least the possibility to communicate without anything you say getting swept up by 24 other people bitching that they didn't get loot.

    Seriously, this game is ass backwards. How the hell can someone say that "Oh you got to skip TIERS AND TIERS OF CONTENT WHAH WAH WAH" and then suggest that the LFR version is content. Seriously? If your beef was that people got to skip content, THEY STILL DO! THey just have to queue for an hour and then sleepwalk through content that's less challenging and interesting then a 5 man heroic mode for 7 weeks before they can do the new stuff.

    The uber gating method of this expansion is beyond retarded. It lowers the pool of people available to pug current raids. It offers no benefit to anyone aside from psychopathic douchecanoes who need other people to have a miserable time to feel good about their achievements in a fucking video game. I mean you guys are sitting here defending the choices they have made so they can deliver LESS GAME to you. That is why there is gating, that is why there are no catch-up mechanics, thats why everything from doing a profession, to getting gear, to wiping your ass takes a 5-day daily quest grind, 4 weeks of valor grinding, and 5 LFR queues with no drops to get done.

    Because they're trying to spend less money and make less game. And you guys are defending it
    Wait, LFR is boring and easy but 5 mans are great content? Not sure I follow that one. It's also a little strange that you bring up content difficulty but don't bring up doing normal modes for gear. It's the quickest and easiest way to gear up.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordredofmia View Post
    .

    Because they're trying to spend less money and make less game. And you guys are defending it
    And the developers are asking me to do more with less. It's disgusting. People are defending it but that isn't surprising.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by fengosa View Post
    Wait, LFR is boring and easy but 5 mans are great content? Not sure I follow that one. It's also a little strange that you bring up content difficulty but don't bring up doing normal modes for gear. It's the quickest and easiest way to gear up.
    Dungeons are actually enjoyable though. Since there's much less people than LFR it's much more personal, so you can actually interract with the people in there. I've made quite a few friends in LFD. LFR doesn't allow that as the only people saying anything are childish fucks that would be kicked out of my LFD groups but who are simply too numerous to get completely rid of in LFR.
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  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    Guys, it looks like you've never played another MMOs at their endgame. Compared to them, WoW gring is really nothing.

    [snip]

    That is really all you need to do. Compared to any other MMO game nowadays, it is really nothing in terms of time spent/reward gained.
    Why is "any other MMO game nowadays" relevant? Any other MMO game nowadays is 1/5th, 1/10th, 1/50th the size of WoW. One thing for sure, other MMOs are NOT good examples of what people want.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Shahad View Post
    Dungeons are actually enjoyable though. Since there's much less people than LFR it's much more personal, so you can actually interract with the people in there. I've made quite a few friends in LFD. LFR doesn't allow that as the only people saying anything are childish fucks that would be kicked out of my LFD groups but who are simply too numerous to get completely rid of in LFR.
    I met lots of great players doing dungeons and lfd. In fact that's how I found the raiding guild I was with for years and the group of players who I came to consider friends. A small tight knight group of us who ran dungeons even when they were "Hard" in cataclysm and had a blast doing it. That group fell apart in mists, although I still try and stay in touch.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-11 at 08:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    Why is "any other MMO game nowadays" relevant? Any other MMO game nowadays is 1/5th, 1/10th, 1/50th the size of WoW. One thing for sure, other MMOs are NOT good examples of what people want.
    Furthermore wow got where it was by being less mmo than other mmos. People have no clue some days I swear.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Shahad View Post
    Dungeons are actually enjoyable though. Since there's much less people than LFR it's much more personal, so you can actually interract with the people in there. I've made quite a few friends in LFD. LFR doesn't allow that as the only people saying anything are childish fucks that would be kicked out of my LFD groups but who are simply too numerous to get completely rid of in LFR.
    This is true. Although there are plenty of LFD groups where people are unpleasant, you do also get groups that are a whole bunch of fun for one reason or another.

    I'm not complaining about the LFR "experience" because on the average these days it's not so bad, the ragers are less frequent, et cetera, but with 25 people many of whom are in a hurry, you just won't have one of those random fun chatty instances. It's really about the gear and the game and not at all about the people.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordredofmia View Post
    Isn't needing to do PVP to PVE kinda..fucking stupid?

    Like if I have no interest in PVP and just wanna PVE why should I need to go buy PVP gear and do PVP just to get into PVE?
    PVP gear is a nice option for those who like doing it or to fill in a piece if you had bad RNG. T14 raids still have much better gear.

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    It's not you mists isn't as casual friendly. It's a massive grind and a massive gate in an attempt to make sure you always have something to do but it's made it so that nothing feels like it's worth doing. It's a massive cock up and bringing back linear progression is about the stupidest fucking thing they could have attempted to do.
    I disagree. While I'm just now trying to gear up a fresh 90 alt, and finding gear to be a bit of a grind to obtain at this point, it's not completely awful, then again I've never been one with the mindset of "Ding 90, gimme gimme gimme!!!"

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by fengosa View Post
    Wait, LFR is boring and easy but 5 mans are great content? Not sure I follow that one. It's also a little strange that you bring up content difficulty but don't bring up doing normal modes for gear. It's the quickest and easiest way to gear up.
    To me what would make sense would be returning to the semi-Cataclysm gearing model except having the ungated gear be LFR quality, not normal raid quality.

    You run 5-mans for a lot of JP and a little VP. Remember how running normals in cataclysm would be good for a few hundred JP per run? I think something like 300-500 JP per run would be reasonable, with a daily or 7x/week valor bonus about the size it currently. Also, have bosses in all non-current LFR tiers drop, let's say, 100 JP on EVERY kill (so you can farm LFR for JP if you like).

    With JP you can buy a reasonably complete set of 476 gear from an ordinary ungated vendor. If there are no set pieces on the vendor, that's fine, I have no problem making people grind a set bonus from the RNG boss.

    With VP you can buy a reasonably but possibly less complete set of T15 LFR from an ordinary ungated vendor.

    Vendors selling normal difficulty gear could be gated with reps and whatever as they are now.

    The 20 ilevel gap between LFR and normal really should eliminate any need to gate LFR gear.

  13. #293
    It's *not* as casual (or alt) friendly as Wrath. That being said, there are plenty of ways to gear up now. Just about everything rewards VP and it doesn't take much to start building up your gear, you can get into LFR within a week of being level 90 even if you don't play much if you put your mind to it, and before you know it you'll be raid ready. Yeah, they didn't make 5.0 gear cost JP instead of VP per usual, but they reduced the price and even if you don't do many dailies there are other ways in place to get the rep now so you can unlock pieces. You can also buy gear relatively cheap or have someone craft them for you.

    You're right, JP is pretty useless after you get a good start, but they want you to see some of the older content before moving onto the new stuff. It's still a way better system than TBC and prior as far as catching-up, and if you can't wait 2 or 3 weeks to do so than it's a personal problem.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    Why is "any other MMO game nowadays" relevant? Any other MMO game nowadays is 1/5th, 1/10th, 1/50th the size of WoW. One thing for sure, other MMOs are NOT good examples of what people want.
    First, this was very sweet quote ripping.
    Second. Being a most successful MMO in history sure has its cons. While a less populated MMO developers can please their customers with the things community really want from them, WoW devs just cant please one part of community because they automatically unplease more huge another part of it. Blizz can never win, you know.
    Third. Any MMO nowadays relevant because its always comes to grind at the end. In SWTOR it was grind, and that grind was not only awful but also meaningless, because raid loots was better and much easier to obtain than items you could get by grinding dailies/instances. In Rift it was grind beyond all limits, close a million rifts to get badges to buy one item, then its rinse and repeat again and again. Do I need to continue my Big List of Examples? Its grind everywhere, because MMO = grind, its designed the way you must sit at your monitor and keep playing hours after hours to get loot so your character becomes stronger thus killing stronger opponents for getting better loot etc etc.
    Fourth and final. But, unlike another MMOs, where endgame grind equals weeks of farming, in WoW anyone can get up and running from new leveled 90 up to raid prepared character basically in ten days. How? There were lots of advices in this topic, even the quoted part of my original message had some. But, looks like people nowadays don't want to actually play, achieve and develop, they tend to sit in towns and cry about how bad the game become, how it is hard to get anything and how this sucks. Well, if it's your way to have fun - you're very welcome to do that.

  15. #295
    The Patient natureca's Avatar
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    In 5.2 you can get geared enough for normal msv / hof pretty fast with the combination of doing 1-2 heriocs a day plus the daily scenario. That's a pretty easy 160 valor a day, add in doing lfr run+ a couple dailies and your at cap each week np. That means by the second week you have a 522 ilvl neck + all the gear from heroics, if your extremely unlucky then maybe it will take 3 weeks to gear up, but that's not that bad.

    And really if your a tank you can spam heroics pretty easily to get more heroic gear. It really shouldn't take more then 3 weeks even if your only doing a heroic a day.
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  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    Furthermore wow got where it was by being less mmo than other mmos. People have no clue some days I swear.
    There was no "less mmo" in WoW than in other games, it was just more casual. (still hardcore judging by modern standards)
    It was back then, since WoW there were plenty much more casual friendly mmos, most of them persihed really fast. Latest example Guild Wars 2, that game failed so hard in long term interest of the players, there was no progression, and did it beat WoW numbers or something? Yeah it sold well, but msot of the people left that game already

  17. #297
    Or you can make LFR a social place.


    We currently have 10 people strong that LFR on alts/mains/newbies every week...we vent up and [this might be a shocker] actually try in LFR.

    We like to compete against each other and the other geared players...is it a "snooze"? I can be, but we don't let it.

    THAT's the difference. We make the game social, if even for a bit of the LFR, and it becomes fun.



    But I know, I know...social has no place in the LFR and we should be shot.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    There was no "less mmo" in WoW than in other games, it was just more casual. (still hardcore judging by modern standards)
    It was back then, since WoW there were plenty much more casual friendly mmos, most of them persihed really fast. Latest example Guild Wars 2, that game failed so hard in long term interest of the players, there was no progression, and did it beat WoW numbers or something? Yeah it sold well, but msot of the people left that game already
    Do you even know what you're talking about? On my server there's always people playing in areas of any levels and looking for dungeon groups. GW2 is just very different than WoW, it's more about having fun and playing whenever you want than grinding to show off your ''awesome'' gear. I don't know why you're saying most people already left it, I'm sure many did but I still see people everywhere and I'm having more fun in GW2 than I had in 3 years of WoW.

    Edit: If someone for some reason will say I'm starting a vs debate, no, 2 very different games for different kinds of players, no comparing, just saying the above poster has no idea.
    Last edited by Zodiark Son; 2013-03-11 at 09:34 PM.

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    There was no "less mmo" in WoW than in other games, it was just more casual. (still hardcore judging by modern standards)
    It was back then, since WoW there were plenty much more casual friendly mmos, most of them persihed really fast. Latest example Guild Wars 2, that game failed so hard in long term interest of the players, there was no progression, and did it beat WoW numbers or something? Yeah it sold well, but msot of the people left that game already
    More casual is less mmo. In fact the history of the game success is the history of a game less and less hardcore and over time more and more casual friendly. Starting in vanilla and all the way through right up until mists.

  20. #300
    Pit Lord Bryntrollian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordredofmia View Post
    Isn't needing to do PVP to PVE kinda..fucking stupid?

    Like if I have no interest in PVP and just wanna PVE why should I need to go buy PVP gear and do PVP just to get into PVE?
    You don't " need " to pvp as there are other ways to reach the requirement but doing everything possible including PvP is a sure way to gear up much faster...
    Synek - best rogue in the world
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I don't think I know what the acronym "tsg" is. It's not RBG's or Arena, random battlegrounds, or any form of dungeon or raid that I can think of. What does it mean?

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