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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    It's not you mists isn't as casual friendly. It's a massive grind and a massive gate in an attempt to make sure you always have something to do but it's made it so that nothing feels like it's worth doing. It's a massive cock up and bringing back linear progression is about the stupidest fucking thing they could have attempted to do.
    So its bad they are indirectly forcing you to use all the content? ok....getting the ilvl needed for msv/hof/terrace is very easy.

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by fengosa View Post
    Wait, LFR is boring and easy but 5 mans are great content? Not sure I follow that one. It's also a little strange that you bring up content difficulty but don't bring up doing normal modes for gear. It's the quickest and easiest way to gear up.
    5 mans are much better content then LFR. You can communicate in a 5-man. You can run a 5-man with just 5 friends and challenge yourself with speed runs. You can keep repeating 5-mans more then once a week until you get the piece of gear you want. I can do 4 heroics in the time it takes to queue for one LFR. 5-Man dungeons are drastically superior content then LFR, which is just a shittier version of content they already made. That's why they're pushing it on us in favor of new dungeons. New dungeons have to be designed, possibly use new art. If they can replace the effort of making new dungeons and just shit out a LFR mode of whatever raid is going it's a huge win for them. You're just happily gobbling up then charging you the same amount of money but letting you accomplish less and them creating less game. That's all LFR is. It's not content, it's a "Raiding for dummies" version of a real raid.

    And it has nothing to do with difficulty. It's tedious. LFR takes FOREVER and chances are you aren't getting a piece of gear and then that's it game over nothing more for the week. Nothing in WOW aside from heroic modes is truly challenging. It's just a boring grindfest of who can prop themselves up against the keyboard longer. It's a horrible design philosophy.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-11 at 08:25 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryntrollian View Post
    You don't " need " to pvp as there are other ways to reach the requirement but doing everything possible including PvP is a sure way to gear up much faster...
    I don't have enough time per day to log on an do dailies, run heroics, run pvp, farm professions, level an alt, and have fun. I quit during Cata because they made the game feel less like a fun enjoyable game but more of a series of chores.

    Wolk's progression model was the absolute best. You get 2 emblems per day from a heroic. 14 a week from dungeons. That's it. Then you got 5 more for the weekly raid. So that's a nice extra chunk leaving you at 19. From that point on the only limit to how many emblems you can earn was how many bosses you could kill. It made that currency feel valuable. Spending it felt good. Getting a new boss down felt like a win both because YAY progression but also because that was two more emblems more then you got last week. It was great.

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordredofmia View Post
    And it has nothing to do with difficulty. It's tedious. LFR takes FOREVER...blah blah blah
    LFR takes FOREVER?? LOL. That is the funniest thing I've read on here in a while.

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Kantoro View Post
    I stopped at "fresh 90 trying to raid". As a fresh 90, you are asking to be carried if you try to raid.
    Well, that's what alt raids are about, right? Gear up alts and newbies.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by calinass View Post
    People say that WoW got casual friendly, but is there a possibility that its not casual friendly as WotLK, or am I just way too nostalgiac and its blurring my memory?

    edit --- extremely relevant signature :|
    At this point in WotLK (the equivalent to the ulduar patch)

    Your options for gearing up for an ulduar raid were all of T7 (Maly, OS, and Naxx) VoA (two bosses, low chance for loot) Rep, and heroics.
    You could get a small amount of gear through tokens, but valor at that point was what, token gloves, boots, belt, cape, offhand and legs? Far from what you'd get for T9's crazy catchup setup that followed all the way through cataclysm. (T9 had a 5-man that dropped purps, heroics were rigged up to give top-tier currency once per day, and a basic set of T9 was purchasable for said currency.)

    Today, you've got Heroics (which will get you to 463) LFR (which'll get you to 480ish, which is the requisite for ToT LFR)
    Heroics give VP, as many times as you want in a day (with a bonus for your first.) You have scenarios which can be used to gain VP through the LFG tools while queued for LFD. You need rep to access said VP gear, but there's few holes (weapons, pretty much), and they just had prices slashed (50% less VP for 5.0 gear, 25% for 5.1 gear). The new faction has a pretty solid set of intro gear too, if you want to go into that direction.

    It's not a "jump in and go" system like cataclysm, where you could farm 3 loot dropping instances non-stop and be raid-ready in a weekend. If anything, it's More like Early wrath, and less like late wrath/late cataclysm.

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    They only understand one thing. Loosing subs. So their not likely to wake up anytime soon, probably around the time of the next expansion when they MAGICALLY realize they had it all wrong in mists. Can't wait for it personally. Wanna guess how low the subs dip till then?
    If losing subs is how they understand, they will wake up soon. First quarter of MoP they lost as many subs as in first quarter of Cata, and Cata was a complete failure. They will lose more in the second quarter, and judging from this quote in the front page "The Isle of Thunder has things like the summonable bosses, rare spawns, chests, Lorewalker objects, and other things to make it more than just a place to go and do daily quests. More things like these will be experimented with in Patch 5.3." they will continue to lose in 5.3 because they just dont get it.

    They dont get that we are fed up with dailies (including dailies zones), and that focusing on one and only one mechanism is a bad thing.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-12 at 08:44 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zanzubaa View Post
    I geared up like so.

    Get to 90 with 4000 honor 4000 justice. Buy 478 Malevelent. Spent what Valor I had on new 522 kneck. Its fast way to get your gear level up to reasonable level.
    Yeha, then proceed to miss all your attacks because you are not hit capped (and i doubt you reach the hit cap reforging that gear).

  7. #307
    Is it really that hard? I got 471 on my Rogue in a few days without even trying or doing a single daily or using a single Elder Charm. Seems like it would be jokes especially since you can get 10+ charms a week with minimal effort now.

  8. #308
    Epic! dryankem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trakanonn View Post
    World of Dailies

    I cant believe so many "blizz fans" support this style of gameplay.
    Don't like dailies, then don't do dailies. Not sure where that's "blizz fans" supporting that style of play.

    Sure you don't get charms or rep or the fancy mounts but if you don't like it don't do it. Don't allow a fancy mount force you into something you don't like. There are alternatives now (rep from 1st dungeon, charms from pet battle, rep from farm and even a rep from the current raid) but the worst case scenario if you didn't like those either is to just let your VP cap and sit there. Even if you let your VP cap you can still get all the gear you needed out of dungeons, LFR or normals and still do the things you say you enjoy doing, it might be slower but it's your time and sanity that matter more.

    As for using PVP gear, no one is saying to use nothing but PVP gear. The point of converting JP to HP is to cheese the ilvl to get you into LFR to get gear from there and replace your PVP pieces. Yes you could theoretically not get any loot from LFR but do you know anyone that it's actually happened to?

    The quickest way to gear is to get into LFR. There are now 5 wings of the old raid and 1 wing of the new (open today). For a fresh 90 you can reach the 460 to start running the first wing of LFR on the same day or a couple days after dinging 90 using methods people have already posted over and over again (LFD, Sha Boots, 522 neck and converting JP into HP). You can also be honoured with any rep in 2 days so you should be able to buy enough gear for a while and then STOP DOING DAILIES. It's like people keep hitting themselves with a mallet but instead of stopping just sit there blaming someone else for supplying them with a mallet.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    and why do you think fresh 90 is more entitled to gearing up faster then what we did at start of MoP?
    Dude I didnt have 476 gear from the start, I dinged I run dungeons where everyone else also need gear from it, and everyone needed on anything just to boost ilvl (now everyone just disenchant, so it's much easier to gear up). I entered MV without 1 epic on me, and green helmet. There was no LFR at start, and it was massivly gated later on. but I managed, I did dailies, I was running raids every week, I earned it.
    Now some guys ding and think he deserve a reward for it, pathetic.
    WTF? Please quote me where I say that. Please, please do. And don't say "you implied" No, it was 1 line, you cannot read anything from 1 line.

    I am fucking fine with 463. Because guess what? I went from 450 to 473 in 2 days! How? I know how to play the game. If you are stuck at a low ilevel, you're doing it wrong. 476 gear on the AH? Ow noez, 1k a piece. Whatever shall I.. ow wait.. done and raid ready. So please shove your self righteous whatever you want to call it. And read a post normally ok?
    This is with:

    2x 5 man run (SM armory+Library and Siege of blabla temple)
    1x every LFR wing.

    So no, it's not hard.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by calinass View Post
    People say that WoW got casual friendly, but is there a possibility that its not casual friendly as WotLK, or am I just way too nostalgiac and its blurring my memory?
    I personally think it is more casual friendly now. The only difference was there were not items checks for raids in WoTLK. So a fresh 80 can be carried through the raid by others, if they are feeling generous. This happened to me but that was an exception since I was marked as a healer and they wanted more raid healers. Would not have happened if I was a DPS.

    Now, there is a check but the check is generous. Asking for mostly heroic dungeon gear for raiding is not being obnoxious. With LFR, it is even easier do the raid instances, at much easier level, without joining a guild and dedicating to their raid times. Some do not consider LFR as true raiding but that is not the point. The fact is more people are now able to enter and do some raiding than before.

    One change I like to see them incorporate is allow LFR in both Normal and Heroic mode in addition to is current level.

    The tabard rep change is annoying but make senses. The old systems, which was super convenient, did not make sense. Earning rep with a factor should mean doing work for them, not wearing their tabard and kill some bosses in a dungeon which they don't care about it.

  11. #311
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    Most casual friendly expac was Cata. ANYONE could raid, gear was easy to get for all 10 alts, dungeons were just cruise control for easy JP, and everyone could just log in and wait for a queue to pop.

  12. #312
    I just resubbed and I found it surprising that you can't buy last tear gear with justice anymore, which really helped with catching up on gear.

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Most casual friendly expac was Cata. ANYONE could raid, gear was easy to get for all 10 alts, dungeons were just cruise control for easy JP, and everyone could just log in and wait for a queue to pop.
    Not at the start of cata, dungeons required CC and were relatively tough at launch but it did get that way.

  14. #314
    VP is incredibly easy to get. do the Isle of Thunder dailies each day, along with your daily dungeon run, and LFR when you get to it, and you'll VP cap easily. but all the VP in the world won't do you any good unless you have factions you're honored with in order to buy VP gear, so I'd suggest trying to get honored with a few factions.

    gearing takes awhile but it's not all that bad. you can also run Sha and Galleon each week, and use coins you find on the Isle of Thunder to get extra rolls on them. no need to worry about BOE's at all.

    Not at the start of cata, dungeons required CC and were relatively tough at launch but it did get that way.
    yup, when people think of Cata they think Dragon Soul and blame the whole expansion for it. realistically though, what happened was too many people whined at actual difficult raids (T11 when Cata first hit) and demanded nerfs. Then they get them and then complain the raid (Dragon Soul) is too easy. Blizz just can't win :/ don't know about Firelands myself as I quit during that time.

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by calinass View Post
    People say that WoW got casual friendly, but is there a possibility that its not casual friendly as WotLK, or am I just way too nostalgiac and its blurring my memory?

    edit --- extremely relevant signature :|
    LK only got "casual friendly" after 3.2 when the flying tome came out for alts and tabards were introduced. Cata was the most alt-friendly expansion but that was also what sucked about it.

    I don't think MoP is all that alt-unfriendly. I think people just got used to everything being so easy that once we had to "earn" it again, there was a HUGE uproar from the "hardcore raiders". Makes you wonder how those raiders could just sit there and complain while actual raiders were already exalted with most factions, bought the VP gear, and were already clearing T-14 25H content. Granted, not all guilds should be compared to progression guilds, but if they can do it in 2 weeks, why can't "raiders" do it 7 months later? Just my 2 cents.

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    LK only got "casual friendly" after 3.2 when the flying tome came out for alts and tabards were introduced. Cata was the most alt-friendly expansion but that was also what sucked about it.

    I don't think MoP is all that alt-unfriendly. I think people just got used to everything being so easy that once we had to "earn" it again, there was a HUGE uproar from the "hardcore raiders". Makes you wonder how those raiders could just sit there and complain while actual raiders were already exalted with most factions, bought the VP gear, and were already clearing T-14 25H content. Granted, not all guilds should be compared to progression guilds, but if they can do it in 2 weeks, why can't "raiders" do it 7 months later? Just my 2 cents.
    You could argue that cata wasn't really super alt friendly until 4.3 where you could easily gear up a toon the same day as dinging 90 and then hit the LFR or a regular raid. Even the Troll dungeons in 4.1 weren't really easy, at least not at first. Sure you had tabards but you had to quest into twilight highlands at 87 in order to even open up the top recipes and even chaos orbs only dropped from dungeons. Pre raid gear was locked behind reps but the difference was you tossed on a tabard and ran the dungeons over and over.

    But I totally agree with you that everyone got used to it being so easy that the so called "hardcore raiders" whined when actual raiders (or the bulk of people that raid) had all their reps and gear and had stopped doing dailies ages ago.

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Chireru93 View Post
    yup, when people think of Cata they think Dragon Soul and blame the whole expansion for it. realistically though, what happened was too many people whined at actual difficult raids (T11 when Cata first hit) and demanded nerfs. Then they get them and then complain the raid (Dragon Soul) is too easy. Blizz just can't win :/ don't know about Firelands myself as I quit during that time.
    This. And heroics in DS weren't exactly all easy (some were) before the nerfs began rolling. I know Zon'ozz caused a lot of wipes.

    The massive alt gearing and leveling only took place several months into DS.

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