1. #1

    Question A few questions about post-5.2 Marksmanship.

    I have read the sticky MM guide here but it seems really out of date compared to the 5.2 patch.
    As far as post-5.2 PvE goes, can you fellow hunters please answer a few questions about Marksmanship (MM):

    1. MM AoE seems really really weak, especially compared to Survival AoE. How many targets are needed for the MM's Multi-Shot to actually be worth casting?

    2a. I noticed Aimed Shot's cast time got reduced in 5.2, but i don't know when is MM actually supposed to be hard casting Aimed Shot?
    2b. Does casting Aimed Shot still prevent you from auto-attacking while it is casting?

    3. As MM i am having trouble deciding which lvl60/75/90 talent to pick - can you share any tips or which ones do you prefer for PvE?

    4. Is it "less bad" to refresh the Steady Focus buff a few seconds before it expires, or a few seconds after it expires?

    Thank you for reading and helping me out
    Last edited by Aleksej89; 2013-03-12 at 12:44 PM.

  2. #2
    1.) That would be at least 4+ Targets, dont forget Multi-Shot actualy procs Wild Quiver.
    2.) Always, you dont use AS at all.
    3.) Fervor, A Murder of Crows, Glaive Toss - although this is highly generalized and single target.
    4.) You never want to let it expire

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Kibu View Post
    1.) That would be at least 4+ Targets, dont forget Multi-Shot actualy procs Wild Quiver.
    2.) Always, you dont use AS at all.
    3.) Fervor, A Murder of Crows, Glaive Toss - although this is highly generalized and single target.
    4.) You never want to let it expire
    Thank you for replying!

    I forgot to ask one question, and that is:
    Does casting Aimed Shot still prevent you from auto-attacking while it is casting?

    Everyone is welcome to post their own opinions and experiences
    Last edited by Aleksej89; 2013-03-12 at 12:44 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Kibu View Post
    1.) That would be at least 4+ Targets, dont forget Multi-Shot actualy procs Wild Quiver.
    2.) Always, you dont use AS at all.
    3.) Fervor, A Murder of Crows, Glaive Toss - although this is highly generalized and single target.
    4.) You never want to let it expire
    2. Perhaps we're having a miscommunication with acronyms, but if you are implying you should always hard-cast Aimed Shot, this is false. Whitefyst has shown (see his postings over on EJ) that hardcasting Aimed Shot requires a 1.4-1.5 cast time.

    3. It has been shown that Dire Beast is mathematically superior to Fervor - though I suspect they are close enough that personal preference may be a better deciding factor than numbers.
    As always, when in doubt on talent choices, use Female Dwarf. We are very lucky to have such tools available to us.
    Kibu, I'm sorry to call you out, but at best, you are leaving out a crucial disclaimer, and at worst, spreading false information. I'd check your sources more carefully, as we have FD and an entire thread for MM that is well put together and well thought out over on EJ.

    And yes, Alek, to my knowledge, hard cast Aimed Shot does pause auto attacks.
    Last edited by Rugtoad; 2013-03-12 at 02:10 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Rugtoad View Post
    2. Perhaps we're having a miscommunication with acronyms, but if you are implying you should always hard-cast Aimed Shot, this is false. Whitefyst has shown (see his postings over on EJ) that hardcasting Aimed Shot requires a 1.4-1.5 cast time.

    3. It has been shown that Dire Beast is mathematically superior to Fervor - though I suspect they are close enough that personal preference may be a better deciding factor than numbers.
    As always, when in doubt on talent choices, use Female Dwarf. We are very lucky to have such tools available to us.
    Kibu, I'm sorry to call you out, but at best, you are leaving out a crucial disclaimer, and at worst, spreading false information. I'd check your sources more carefully, as we have FD and an entire thread for MM that is well put together and well thought out over on EJ.

    And yes, Alek, to my knowledge, hard cast Aimed Shot does pause auto attacks.
    This is why i said - although this is highly generalized and single target, in my opinion on demand focus as MM, is superior to Dire Beast, again IMO.

    As to always hardcasting - go to FD and take out AS out of your rotation, its a dps gain...

  6. #6
    My hunter is only just entering LFR so i dont have a clue about all those simulation tools :/

    Can anyone else also provide info about the "Aimed Shot hardcast VS Arcane Shot" issue in PvE?

  7. #7
    The problem with marks is that the fights generally a ton of target swapping and instances of having to move around to react to certain things. Generally almost every fight favors survival except for a few that favor BM. And the times you use BM are when you have times where BW lines up perfectly with a burn phase.

    Overall this is what I'm thinking most hunters will be going:

    Jin'rohk - survival
    horridon - survival (aoe)
    council - survival (aoe)
    tortos - survival (aoe)
    megaera - survival (pet spawn issues)
    ji-kun - survival (aoe) surprised hunters are low on this fight. Guess no guilds really used the feathers to get the dps buff.
    durumu - beast mastery / survival (pretty even imo here but I preferred BM)
    primordius - BM if only on boss / survival if killing adds (I was on boss entire fight so went BM)
    dark animus - BM for burst on boss when it is activated
    iron qon - bm
    twins - bm
    lei shin - survival

    The only fight I would consider marks on would be Iron qon because it has 4 careful aim phases, but even then it's not a big deal. The others two specs are easier and get the job done better. Also, I would not even touch marks until you get the talisman of bloodlust and have over 5k haste unbuffed.
    Last edited by Libertarian; 2013-03-12 at 04:49 PM.
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  8. #8
    its really not an "issue" go read the mm post on elitist jerks by whytefist. Hard casting aimed outside of CA or Haste effects is a DPS loss.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Kibu View Post
    This is why i said - although this is highly generalized and single target, in my opinion on demand focus as MM, is superior to Dire Beast, again IMO.

    As to always hardcasting - go to FD and take out AS out of your rotation, its a dps gain...
    You are choosing Fervor over Dire Beast because you prefer the focus gain(that I would argue MM doesn't really need) to that of the Dire Beast damage as a personal choice. As I said, they are close enough that they are interchangeable based on a personal preference, however, the fact remains that Dire Beast is mathematically superior in damage. Qualifying your statement as a generalization actually makes it worse, because you are trying to turn an opinion into a fact, which it is not.
    I'm sorry to be like this, but I've seen statements like that completely mislead people - people take what is your opinion as an expression of a fact because of HOW you said it.

    As for you taking Arcane shot out of rotation and seeing a DPS gain on FD... do you run a high haste build(as in maximising haste after your haste "plateau")? I'm unable to armory/FD your toon at the moment.

    Alek, it is your toon and you are free to play it as you please, but I would highly recommend holding off on Marksman until you are well geared. MM is the most gear(particularly weapon) dependent spec right now. You will most likely have more success as BM or SV. Should you choose to continue as MM, go to elitistjerks.com, browse the the hunter forum, and read the MM sticky. It has all the information you'll ever need.
    Last edited by Rugtoad; 2013-03-12 at 06:30 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Libertarian View Post
    The problem with marks is that the fights generally a ton of target swapping and instances of having to move around to react to certain things.
    Movement and target swaps aren't problems for MM, especially with the Aimed glyph.

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertarian View Post
    Jin'rohk - survival
    horridon - survival (aoe)
    council - survival (aoe)
    tortos - survival (aoe)
    megaera - survival (pet spawn issues)
    ji-kun - survival (aoe) surprised hunters are low on this fight. Guess no guilds really used the feathers to get the dps buff.
    durumu - beast mastery / survival (pretty even imo here but I preferred BM)
    primordius - BM if only on boss / survival if killing adds (I was on boss entire fight so went BM)
    dark animus - BM for burst on boss when it is activated
    iron qon - bm
    twins - bm
    lei shin - survival
    -Jin'rohk is a single target burn with a huge damage buff. BM or MM work great here.
    -Council is supposed to be "focus the possessed boss". If you want to pad, sure, go SV.
    -Ji'kun is single target unless you're on egg duty. The point of the feathers is to deal with the eggs so they don't hatch and overwhelm your raid. Additionally, catching the food does give a dps buff, but also prevents the green goop on the platform.
    -Megaera does have pet issues. MM or SV, slight edge to MM for multiple CAs.
    -Durumu is primarily single target. Any spec would work.
    -Primordius was a joke on release because his damage shielding wasn't active. You're supposed to get buffs from the adds to overcome it, not just tunnel the boss. Definitely an SV fight.
    -Dark Animus deals with adds most of the fight, followed by a single target burn. Depending on your exact strategy, SV might be better to work down multiple adds.
    -Iron Qon is pure single target. BM or MM both work fine here.
    -Same for Twins.
    -Lei Shen has non-trivial adds, worth going SV.

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertarian View Post
    The others two specs are easier and get the job done better.
    "Easier" is subjective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertarian View Post
    Also, I would not even touch marks until you get the talisman of bloodlust and have over 5k haste unbuffed.
    Pure exaggeration.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Libertarian View Post
    The problem with marks is that the fights generally a ton of target swapping and instances of having to move around to react to certain things.
    Movement and target swaps aren't problems for MM, especially with the Aimed glyph.

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertarian View Post
    Jin'rohk - survival
    horridon - survival (aoe)
    council - survival (aoe)
    tortos - survival (aoe)
    megaera - survival (pet spawn issues)
    ji-kun - survival (aoe) surprised hunters are low on this fight. Guess no guilds really used the feathers to get the dps buff.
    durumu - beast mastery / survival (pretty even imo here but I preferred BM)
    primordius - BM if only on boss / survival if killing adds (I was on boss entire fight so went BM)
    dark animus - BM for burst on boss when it is activated
    iron qon - bm
    twins - bm
    lei shin - survival
    -Jin'rohk is a single target burn with a huge damage buff. BM or MM work great here.
    -Council is supposed to be "focus the possessed boss". If you want to pad, sure, go SV.
    -Ji'kun is single target unless you're on egg duty. The point of the feathers is to deal with the eggs so they don't hatch and overwhelm your raid. Additionally, catching the food does give a dps buff, but also prevents the green goop on the platform.
    -Megaera does have pet issues. MM or SV, slight edge to MM for multiple CAs.
    -Durumu is primarily single target. Any spec would work.
    -Primordius was a joke on release because his damage shielding wasn't active. You're supposed to get buffs from the adds to overcome it, not just tunnel the boss. Definitely an SV fight.
    -Dark Animus deals with adds most of the fight, followed by a single target burn. Depending on your exact strategy, SV might be better to work down multiple adds.
    -Iron Qon is pure single target. BM or MM both work fine here.
    -Same for Twins.
    -Lei Shen has non-trivial adds, worth going SV.

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertarian View Post
    The others two specs are easier and get the job done better.
    "Easier" is subjective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertarian View Post
    Also, I would not even touch marks until you get the talisman of bloodlust and have over 5k haste unbuffed.
    Pure exaggeration.

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