Bonus honor for loss is ruining PvP experience.

[A dot Ham]

"I can earn more honor with quick losses, than long drawn out wins."

An actual quote from someone I recently played with, followed by the replies of acceptance and praise from other teammates.

(1) On the one hand, people who are ACTUALLY contributing should be rewarded in SOME way, it really sucks to try as hard as some of us do and have nothing to show for it. (So i understand WHY we get honor)

(2) On the other this type of mindset/behavior is completely detrimental to team gameplay much less a win.

If people had to WIN to receive honor, than more people would actually TRY and win, ALSO you may have those people who choose not to play, because they really aren't that interested in contributing or PvPing anyway.

If you queue up for a raid/5man and don't down any bosses. You don't get any rewards either for the random dungeon or by loot. So why do reward people for doing nothing in PvP? (This isn't a PvE vs PvP thread... i solely PvP so before you jump to conclusions, come off it)

Strategies winning or losing, don't change as a result of no matter what you do, you receive honor.

Examples:

Standing waiting for flag in EotS despite the fact that we control 0-1 bases and they are clearly HOLDING the flag.

20 people rushing the GY in AV and standing next to the flag killing worthless NPCs while a single rogue recaps North/South bunker or east/west tower (ya right that doesn't happen)

5-10 people dismounting to cap a single flag in AB or Gilneas (when only 1 can actually cap)

Fighting mid in WSG, or trying to CC and kill healers when FC has 10 friggin stacks on him.

Not killing glaives in isle of conquest... whole team rushing WS only to have it capped by 1 rogue because every ran to sit in front of gates.

Point is, is there is this mob mentality married with this idea that they don't need to perform in order to be rewarded.

I can't stand it... and blizzard is (from my perspective) the biggest culprit for allowing this to occur.

---------- Post added 2013-03-11 at 11:04 AM ----------

So rather than just rant and provide no solutions to this problem... here are some of my ideas.

Instead of bonus honor, offer a minimal amount of gold. I say minimal so that we don't have straight gold farming, so minimal that if the gold was actually your goal, it would be far more beneficial to do something else.

Bonus honor for objectives are proximity based/percentage based. Meaning that if you cap a flag... you only get a bonus honor from it... if you stay and ensure it caps, and those that may not have got the cap themselves get rewarded for sticking out to defend it from getting ninjaed.

Bonus honor at the end split % based. Meaning that if somehow a bot managed to get by unreported, he gets NOTHING unless he actually contributed. Those that are higher on the contribution marker, get MORE honor than those that performed poorly.

[wooootles]

This idea will clearly ruin the dude in 450 pvp blues. Why will you want lesser-geared players to be lesser-geared for a longer time?

Your suggestions are already in place in some BGs (more honor in flags, more honor with HKs duh)

[A dot Ham]

This idea will clearly ruin the dude in 450 pvp blues. Why will you want lesser-geared players to be lesser-geared for a longer time?

Your suggestions are already in place in some BGs (more honor in flags, more honor with HKs duh)

This kind of makes it sound like I'm being elitist... and I'm not so lets not go there with it.

But a person in blues who is contributing is going to gear up regardless.

Perhaps a small bonus for attempts also. Meaning if they take the flag and they are mo-murdered a small bonus for trying. Or bonus honor for escorting caps (proximity based)

The point is is we/they (blizzard) needs to come up with a way that rewards CONTRIBUTORS and those that come in just to fuck around get nothing.

Rather than the system now where everyone gets the same bonus honor just for being there. Because a person in PvP blues... a person in quest greens... can still try, contribute, and play toward completing objectives.

Rather than actively working toward making the game's outcome be a loss, and a loss as quickly as possible just so they can collect the bonus.

[nightfalls]

This idea will clearly ruin the dude in 450 pvp blues. Why will you want lesser-geared players to be lesser-geared for a longer time?

Your suggestions are already in place in some BGs (more honor in flags, more honor with HKs duh)

I don't know if you are being serious or not, but:

Even if you're in "450 pvp blues" you can still attack people. You can still CC people. You can still heal people. You can still contribute to a kill, or contribute to your teammate not dying. Maybe that 3v3 battle which your team lost even though they had an opponent down to 2% might have been tipped if you had helped instead of botting around. You can still guard objectives even for that extra few seconds for your team to get there.

Yeah... I hate when people use that shit as an excuse to AFK or be deadweight. Everybody can help.

[Deleted]

While I understand, and to an extent, agree with your point the examples you brought up are really bad ones.
First of all: without communication, how do you decide who caps the flag? Be glad people even do it, not rarely do I see people ignoring them completely. (Yes even the first ones)

Secondly, people are free to play this game as they choose. Often, mid-farming results in more PvP than the actual objectives. If I want to do some PvP, nuking down demolishers or sitting in one is not exactly what I have in mind. So once someone have their honor gear and only play for fun, why would they not seek out players outside of the bases for some 1v1 or 1vN combat?

My point is, while I can understand the frustration in losing when you're trying to gear up, once you have that honor gear and only play for fun you should be allowed to do what you want in the BGs. That's just how they work.

[Strakha]

BGs are not very fun most of the time(trolls, bots, idiots, etc), so more of a reward for losing means people will be more likely to queue up again.

[A dot Ham]

While I understand, and to an extent, agree with your point the examples you brought up are really bad ones.
First of all: without communication, how do you decide who caps the flag? Be glad people even do it, not rarely do I see people ignoring them completely. (Yes even the first ones)

Secondly, people are free to play this game as they choose. Often, mid-farming results in more PvP than the actual objectives. If I want to do some PvP, nuking down demolishers or sitting in one is not exactly what I have in mind. So once someone have their honor gear and only play for fun, why would they not seek out players outside of the bases for some 1v1 or 1vN combat?

My point is, while I can understand the frustration in losing when you're trying to gear up, once you have that honor gear and only play for fun you should be allowed to do what you want in the BGs. That's just how they work.

I get what you are saying... but you shouldn't be receiving any bonus from a loss either, and someone who is of YOUR mindset... wouldn't make a comment like

"I can earn more honor with quick losses, than long drawn out wins."

Because they don't care about honor.

That being said one could argue that if a person who has nothing to gain from getting honor (ie they are already geared) is participating in the BG womping on the enemy is in at least a small way contributing.

But the person who runs around doing nothing and actively refusing to contribute or play in any way. Who actually AVOIDS opposing players at all costs... should not get rewarded for the kills and objectives that other teammates complete.

[Lassira]

most people in BGs don't play them to enjoy them, they play them to get gear so they can do arena.
It's why you see so many bots, because BGs aren't an enjoyable experience for most people but they're a requirement.

They don't care if they win, they care about the honor.

[A dot Ham]

BGs are not very fun most of the time(trolls, bots, idiots, etc), so more of a reward for losing means people will be more likely to queue up again.

But if you didn't provide rewards for losing.

Then the bots would go away, the idiots wouldn't be rewarded and thus have no motivation to participate... and trolls are trolls whether they are receiving honor or not.

If you remove those players... then BGs ARE enjoyable... and you don't have to motivate people to "queue up again" because they would want to, because they are having fun.

I think your reason for its existence is incredibly backwards thinking, and I highly doubt that was EVER their reason for implementing it.

---------- Post added 2013-03-11 at 12:12 PM ----------

They don't care if they win, they care about the honor.

Remove the free honor for the loss... and they'll care about winning.

[Deleted]

Better idea: make losses yield no honor by default but give bonus honor depending on how closely you lost the game. That way everyone has an incentive to play better and losing is not nearly as frustrating (like losing AB 1590-1600 after 20+ minutes).

Right now losing even a very close game might earn you only half the honor the winner team gets.

[A dot Ham]

Better idea: make losses yield no honor by default but give bonus honor depending on how closely you lost the game. That way everyone has an incentive to play better and losing is not nearly as frustrating (like losing AB 1590-1600 after 20+ minutes).

Right now losing even a very close game might earn you only half the honor the winner team gets.

Thats a decent idea.