1. #1

    Need some tanking advice

    So, in a previous thread, I mentioned I was going DPS full time after pulling both duties in my previous guild. However, just before 5.2 I was lucky enough to find a guild that was in need of another tank, so I've decided to concentrate on my Blood spec as much as possible. This week we finally got Horridon down, but I must say I struggled a lot. Spiky damage =/= happy death knight. But, even with this I've looked at my logs and talked with my healers and I'm adjusting my playstyle. My previous guild I was more used to relying on my healers to keep me up, but I'm attempting to better myself by using my abilities in a better fashion.

    Still, I would like some feedback on small things I could be doing that will help out.

    Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Jadence/simple

    Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/a...?s=8843&e=9532

    Any useful feedback would be great. TIA.

  2. #2
    Why are you using Runic Empowerment? Were you using Lichborne like in your talents? Because I see 0 DC's used for healing. If you use Purgatory and get smashed into it proccing during a Puncture, you can use a Ghoul summon/Death Pact macro, call for an instant heal, use a DS/RT combo, etc. etc.

    Why gem for hit/exp if you're getting hit like a truck? More stamina (read: mast/stam gems in green slots) can provide some more stability for you. I'd also personally reccommend using SSG on your weapon for the extra Stam and a bit of armor as well. I am sitting at 676k with dual stam trinkets and BP, but I still feel having more hp will benefit you with the amount of damage going out in ToT. Same thing for the reforges, perhaps forging out of hit/exp and into dodge/parry can provide more damage reduction.

    As far as Horridon goes, rotate your CD's properly. Consider using the IBF glyph and use it immediately before a higher stack of Puncture. Call out for externals. If you have it, throw on 2pc T14. 20sec off VB is extremely valuable. You only used 10 Rune Taps in an 11.5min fight. Rounding it to 11min, you could use 22 casts potentially.

    Unfortunately I just realized my Horridon logs weren't complete and resulted in an error. However, I recall doing ~48k HPS and you're effectively doing 17k. (My kill was when the adds were apparently tuned for 25m, but I'm unsure if the difference should be that large). Therefore your healers appear to be doing a good job of keeping you topped off and preventing damage. They could still be using their CD's more than they did, however, to make the damage more predictable. I think the source of your spiky-ness is just a few minor tweaks and some ilvl's. Looks fine otherwise. Will be glad to compare logs after Wednesday night when I go back to Horridon and see if there's a big gap in DS's, rune taps, etc.
    Last edited by Sacul; 2013-03-11 at 09:07 PM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    Why are you using Runic Empowerment? Were you using Lichborne like in your talents? Because I see 0 DC's used for healing. If you use Purgatory and get smashed into it proccing during a Puncture, you can use a Ghoul summon/Death Pact macro, call for an instant heal, use a DS/RT combo, etc. etc.

    Why gem for hit/exp if you're getting hit like a truck? More stamina (read: mast/stam gems in green slots) can provide some more stability for you. I'd also personally reccommend using SSG on your weapon for the extra Stam and a bit of armor as well. I am sitting at 676k with dual stam trinkets and BP, but I still feel having more hp will benefit you with the amount of damage going out in ToT. Same thing for the reforges, perhaps forging out of hit/exp and into dodge/parry can provide more damage reduction.
    I use RE because it fits my playstyle better. I know people saying using BT is better for on demand runes, but I already struggle managing my cooldowns and my runes at the same time, I'd really rather have something passive. I only just switched to Lichborne from Purgatory after it didn't seem like Purg was really doing me any good and I would rather have an preventive CD. I may switch back because it did save me a few times, but I wanted to try something different.

    There isn't a big different between me stacking mastery vs stacking hit/exp. I head both ways are fine and the difference is about 2%. Stacking stamina (meaning gemming/runeforging for it) is not bad for more EH, but I'd rather go with mastery and/or avoidance. The only thing I may do is go out of my hit/exp build and concentrate on more avoidance, since my new guild is more concerned about my survivability than my dps.

  4. #4
    Might look into it a bit more tomorrow, but for now I'd just like to echo something Sacul said. RE is utterly dreadful for blood. If you for some reason can't micromanage BT (if you are struggling to manage runes/cds you might be better off playing a different tanking class though) go with RC, at least that doesn't discourage you from holding a death strike. Managing runes and cds is what dk tanking is all about, and if you can't handle this no gear or talent changes is going to save you.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by omnibishop View Post
    I use RE because it fits my playstyle better. I know people saying using BT is better for on demand runes, but I already struggle managing my cooldowns and my runes at the same time, I'd really rather have something passive. I only just switched to Lichborne from Purgatory after it didn't seem like Purg was really doing me any good and I would rather have an preventive CD. I may switch back because it did save me a few times, but I wanted to try something different.

    There isn't a big different between me stacking mastery vs stacking hit/exp. I head both ways are fine and the difference is about 2%. Stacking stamina (meaning gemming/runeforging for it) is not bad for more EH, but I'd rather go with mastery and/or avoidance. The only thing I may do is go out of my hit/exp build and concentrate on more avoidance, since my new guild is more concerned about my survivability than my dps.
    I agree that going with Blood Tap (and getting used to it) will help you a lot in the long run, being in control of your death strikes is a big thing.

    Lichborne is by far the best talent in the second tier, Horridon gives you insane vengeance during his rampage, close to 200k which means you're looking at 450k+ heals from a single death coil.

    I also went Death Siphon for that fight as it benefits from the stacking damage taken debuff on him,

    As far as my personal advice goes, you can't go wrong with either mastery or stamina. We get a 25% boost to stam from our presence and mastery pretty much stacks exponentially.

    I prefer always having my hit capped as it basically means I will never ever miss a Rune Strike (aside from the DPS that hit/exp add, which is substantial for 10 mans). I keep my exp at around 5% but I do not really focus on it, every piece I have the weakest stat is reforged to mastery > hit > parry = exp > dodge
    The dragons' flame sealed my fate. The world of the living can no longer comfort me.

  6. #6
    #showtooltip Rune Strike
    /cast bloot tap
    /cast rune strike

    set it and forget it... works great for me. With the high amounts of runic power coming it I'm constantly sitting on runes for death strikes since I don't spam death strike. I wait for a lil window of damage then hit it for bigger heals/bubbles. Plus the delay gives me a few stacks of Scent of blood. Works great imo. I just hate how my toon spams the animation sometimes when I don't have enough charges.
    I want to have a child and use it as a pulling tool in dungeons.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by danightryder View Post
    #showtooltip Rune Strike
    /cast bloot tap
    /cast rune strike

    set it and forget it... works great for me. With the high amounts of runic power coming it I'm constantly sitting on runes for death strikes since I don't spam death strike. I wait for a lil window of damage then hit it for bigger heals/bubbles. Plus the delay gives me a few stacks of Scent of blood. Works great imo. I just hate how my toon spams the animation sometimes when I don't have enough charges.
    Any particular reason that you're doing this over simply using RC?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    Might look into it a bit more tomorrow, but for now I'd just like to echo something Sacul said. RE is utterly dreadful for blood. If you for some reason can't micromanage BT (if you are struggling to manage runes/cds you might be better off playing a different tanking class though) go with RC, at least that doesn't discourage you from holding a death strike. Managing runes and cds is what dk tanking is all about, and if you can't handle this no gear or talent changes is going to save you.
    I think I might have not worded that well. I love playing a DK. I can manage my runes and CDs decently enough. But I have issues darting my eyes around the screen. For instance, my runes and blood shield tracker are roughly center screen and my bars are at the bottom. Switching between watching my runes, watching my cooldowns, and watching the fight strains my vision if i do it too much. I don't tunnel, but sometimes I just have to pay attention to one thing and ignore others. Plus my keybinds are full enough as it is. I've thought about taking BT and macroing into RS, but that takes away the on demand use for the most part and makes the other two talents more useful at that point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellkung View Post
    I agree that going with Blood Tap (and getting used to it) will help you a lot in the long run, being in control of your death strikes is a big thing.

    Lichborne is by far the best talent in the second tier, Horridon gives you insane vengeance during his rampage, close to 200k which means you're looking at 450k+ heals from a single death coil.

    I also went Death Siphon for that fight as it benefits from the stacking damage taken debuff on him,

    As far as my personal advice goes, you can't go wrong with either mastery or stamina. We get a 25% boost to stam from our presence and mastery pretty much stacks exponentially.

    I prefer always having my hit capped as it basically means I will never ever miss a Rune Strike (aside from the DPS that hit/exp add, which is substantial for 10 mans). I keep my exp at around 5% but I do not really focus on it, every piece I have the weakest stat is reforged to mastery > hit > parry = exp > dodge
    Other than the BT thing, I'm spot on with you. Even though I feel squishy, I don't think my issue is lack of stam/mastery/avoidance due to capping hit/exp. It's more of a playstyle issue that I'm slowly adjusting.

    Quote Originally Posted by danightryder View Post
    #showtooltip Rune Strike
    /cast bloot tap
    /cast rune strike

    set it and forget it... works great for me. With the high amounts of runic power coming it I'm constantly sitting on runes for death strikes since I don't spam death strike. I wait for a lil window of damage then hit it for bigger heals/bubbles. Plus the delay gives me a few stacks of Scent of blood. Works great imo. I just hate how my toon spams the animation sometimes when I don't have enough charges.
    But from what I read, macroing it is actually worse than taking another talent because it's not at full potential.

  9. #9
    I think I might have not worded that well. I love playing a DK. I can manage my runes and CDs decently enough. But I have issues darting my eyes around the screen. For instance, my runes and blood shield tracker are roughly center screen and my bars are at the bottom. Switching between watching my runes, watching my cooldowns, and watching the fight strains my vision if i do it too much. I don't tunnel, but sometimes I just have to pay attention to one thing and ignore others. Plus my keybinds are full enough as it is. I've thought about taking BT and macroing into RS, but that takes away the on demand use for the most part and makes the other two talents more useful at that point.
    Sounds like a poor UI to me (admittedly I've used my fair of shitty UI's, I remember hovering my cursor over blood shield in my buff bar when I just started playing my dk:P). Just use weakauras (or if you cba to configure that, simply omniCC+bartender) to gather your important cds+blood tap at the middle of your screen together with your runes & blood shield.

    Regarding talents, you are gimping yourself by not using BT for certain fights, but if you are hellbent on not doing that, at least get RC instead of RE. RE is practically forcing you to keep your death strikes on cd to get the most of it, and you always want to keep (at least) one off cd to respond to incoming damage, this talent honestly hurts you more than it helps.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    Sounds like a poor UI to me (admittedly I've used my fair of shitty UI's, I remember hovering my cursor over blood shield in my buff bar when I just started playing my dk:P). Just use weakauras (or if you cba to configure that, simply omniCC+bartender) to gather your important cds+blood tap at the middle of your screen together with your runes & blood shield.
    I'm slowly (SLOWLY) working on getting my UI configured to my needs. However, I've always used OmniCC to manage my timers, so that's not the issues. My issue is my fingers can only reach so many keybinds without becoming cumbersome, and this is even with many of my abilities on my "click" bar (meaning no keybinds). I've attempted consolidating as many of my keybinds into macros as possible, without it becoming a hindrance. Still, my bars remain full.

  11. #11
    If you want control (quality) of DS (and therefore clutch survival), go BT. If you want spammability (quantity) of DS (and therefore overall survival), go RC.
    Runic Empowerment provides equal overall runes to RC, while being less flexible in how you get them.
    With RC, you can bank an extra DS and not lose out on the talent since it affects runes already recharging.
    With RE, if you hold on to a set of runes, you may as well not even have it since it only affects fully depleted runes.
    With BT (and proper foresight), you can bank 3 back-to-back DS, with a fourth about 2 seconds later.

    Where's that T9 wearing Dwarf with glasses to come add numbers to the argument?

    If you are lazy, Runic Corruption. If you are smart, Blood Tap. If you hate healers, Runic Empowerment.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Omertocracy View Post
    Where's that T9 wearing Dwarf with glasses to come add numbers to the argument?
    wassup.


    RC isn't just for people who are "lazy". Remember what we are after when looking at t5 talents: stability. RE is the worst option because it doesnt allow for holding FU runes and affects our ability to time DS for stability, even though it theoretically has the most DS/min. Just because BT gives you control doesn't mean it's "better". It is great, don't get me wrong, and certain mechanics practically necessitate BT (hello H sha). However RC works just as well 90% of the time with the added bonus of +10% dps relative to BT.


    Now no one is arguing that the control of BT isn't amazing (unless you macro it, which is not recommended), but let me just point out how RC is just as viable.
    As I said earlier we should be choosing based on which will help us maintain stability. BT helps us by allowing us to bank a DS, completely eliminating a given DS gap. RC does this by shortening the gaps when it procs. Now, a completely removed gap is better than a sped up gap, but BT has some ramp up, while RC can proc at any time. RC only needs one proc to give its benefit, and if you had even just 2 rune strikes you are looking at a 69.75% chance to shorten a DS gap. To sum it up, BT for control and RC for consistency and slightly boosted DPS. Laziness has nothing to do with it.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Reniat View Post
    Now no one is arguing that the control of BT isn't amazing (unless you macro it, which is not recommended), but let me just point out how RC is just as viable.
    As I said earlier we should be choosing based on which will help us maintain stability. BT helps us by allowing us to bank a DS, completely eliminating a given DS gap. RC does this by shortening the gaps when it procs. Now, a completely removed gap is better than a sped up gap
    RC removes gaps entirely too, if you bank runes.
    The main argument for RC in my mind is that it's impossible to waste. You can keep an FU runeset ALWAYS, and death strike one GCD before they cap to dump (if you don't need to DS sooner). It's a lot more stable than BT, where using your banked DS sets you back 10-15 seconds; RC on the other hand will bring you back up to having an ideal FU set within just a few seconds even if you need to use your clutch DS.

    If you try to do the same with the other talents, your regen will go to waste since they need fully depleted runes to activate. Having fully depleted FU runes is dangerous.

  14. #14
    I would go with RC for the overall survivability, but I also do believe that Blood tap is a good choice. It depends on the fight and the situation of course, but choose what best fits your playstyle mate.

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