1. #1

    New former Wow player- question about Rift pvp etc

    Hello guys. I was playing wow 7 years and now I need some break. I would like to move to Rit because this is atm only one good MMO on a market (excepting wow).
    I would like ask you if it is worth to start playing Rift. I am only PVP player I dont want to play pve ( hate grind )
    Is it worth to play Rift for pvp ? Any1 can tell me something about that ?

    I have also question about class to play pvp for me. I think either about Warrior ( usually melee clas BUT i want also to play range one - is it playable ? )
    or Cleric ( healing, dps - is melee/range cleric's pvp good ? )
    I rely on you very much so I ask you about the situation. I will probably not start if you will crash my opinion about the game ( pvp aspect because I dont like pve)

    Thank you very much

  2. #2
    Every class can do almost anything in Rift.

    * Warriors can tank, melee, support, use a pet and/or use range purely. They just can't heal directly.
    * Clerics can tank, melee dps, support, range dps, use a pet and heal. There is no role they are unable to perform.
    * Mages can melee dps, range dps, heal, use a pet and support. They just can't tank directly.
    * Rogues can tank, melee, use a pet, range dps and support. They just can't heal to a significant degree, though they can heal.

    One can also combine any 3 specs. So a Warrior can have a tank, pet and ranged dps spec all at once. For example.

    Rift's PVP is fairly basic and not too popular. It is also not particularly competitive. There are no arenas, rankings or server battles. Just casual 3 faction PVP and battlegrounds.

    Only one PVP server is for NA and 3 for EU players. All 4 are lightly populated. Rift is more popular in the US than abroad.

    Rift is a heavy PVE raid focused game.

  3. #3
    First of all, no worries about the population in a shard since u will be able to join for raids/pvp/world event for all shards in EU or US. Personally I was looking for pvp shard (server) but i ended up with a pve one without affecting my game at all.
    Since u are looking for pvp and once again I was in that way too I have to say that u will meet a couple "wierd" problems: Warfronts (Battlegrounds) are on a totally different lvl from what you have used to, you will find your self fighting in the middle of a warfront with others on I spam-You heal endless race.For example yesterday in the Arathi Basin style warfront there were so much healers for both sides that honestly I could see my targets healthbar going down they were ALL 100% xp at all times not QQing just saying. As Fencers said there is no competitive pvp but you will find your self grinding pvp to get the favor (honor) for your Prestige Rank (oldschool ranks for wow) in order to unlock better pvp gear.It means that you will need some time and only time in Warfronts to end up with the best pvp gear. Another aspec of pvp is the conquest map, is like a Risk strategy game,if u know the table game, there are some problems with it but its not the time to tell you about thse since i find it good.If some1 would like to describe it ,its like 100 ppl that were planning to raid Orgrimmar found some ppl on the way for Ironforge and a 3d raid too in a mass pvp massacre, The "wierd" thing is that you gonna need tons of heals since there will be 100 ppl spamming 3-4 or way more AOE spells aka -2 fps and again it will be a healing race. Personally I believe that if you pvp and only pvp you gonna loose a huge part of the game, and im not talking about raids and pve grind, there are many more "pve" things you can enjoy and thats from a former multiple-glad guy in WoW.
    Since you are new to the game Ill stop here but if you need anything anytime just ask for it.Hope we will meet in Telara!
    Last edited by akon; 2013-03-12 at 06:38 AM.

  4. #4
    I personally love rift in many ways, especially the soul system.
    However, most pvp players left Rift long ago, I also left Rift for that reason. It's no competition, and it's all about grinding battlegrounds for a looong time to get best gear... and the ones with best gear will oneshot you many times on your way there. And that's about it.
    I would rather go for guild wars 2. Sure, it's some months left until they fix their competitive pvp like battlegrounds and tournaments, but there is Wvwvw for large scale pvp and it's very popular.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Tea View Post
    I personally love rift in many ways, especially the soul system.
    However, most pvp players left Rift long ago, I also left Rift for that reason. It's no competition, and it's all about grinding battlegrounds for a looong time to get best gear... and the ones with best gear will oneshot you many times on your way there. And that's about it.
    I would rather go for guild wars 2. Sure, it's some months left until they fix their competitive pvp like battlegrounds and tournaments, but there is Wvwvw for large scale pvp and it's very popular.
    Well better then grinding for no rewards. This guy has played WoW for 7 years, so making him believe that Arena does not have flaws is a failed idea from the start. You can play WoW for one patch cycle to find out why Arena is a bad idea. Balancing an entire game off of 5v5 Arena is a bad idea a whole new level. Only reason it still exist is because hardcore grinders ok with FOTM classes every patch cycle do not say shit about it.

    GW2 pvp is not intuitive and is based off of simple skill bars that might as be on a playstation or xbox for the amount of thought it requires. If this guy played WoW pvp for 7 years he will cry laughing at how simplified GW2 pvp is compared to Wow. That GW2 pvp line about being the saviour of mmo pvp worked before the game released, but there is a reality that has set in with the mmo player base about ArenaNET's lies.

    Rift attempts to standardize baseline damage by boosting everyone's valor up to the same point. All pvp gear has the same valor (pvp mitigation stat) across all ranks <---think WoW classic or BC. Majority of warfronts you join you are bolstered to match the gear level of people you are playing against. So in a 10-20 warfront if you join at lvl 10 you are bolstered to lvl 18ish give or take a little.

    Major issue with Rift pvp is at end game they made the grind for the best gear a little brutal. I guess this can be a good thing because it sure as fuck is not handed out. Conquest is essentially 3 faction pvp..think Wintergrasp but add another faction. You are given the option of join 1 of 3 teams.

    It is not a 100% random queue so in US majority of the gear players will jump to Dominion then Oathsworm followed by Nightfall. Think of it like all the strong fast kids getting picked for dodgeball and the left overs getting put to Nightfall. It is one of Trions major fails at a relatively fun war front.
    Last edited by Puremallace; 2013-03-12 at 01:35 PM.
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  6. #6
    Thank you very much and ofc every post is welcome. I was trying to play every possible good mmo that have been realased ( including GW2) but everything is just bad. I really hate Blizzard for their pvp balance and fucked system but it is still best.

    s Fencers said there is no competitive pvp but you will find your self grinding pvp to get the favor (honor) for your Prestige Rank (oldschool ranks for wow) in order to unlock better pvp gear.It means that you will need some time and only time in Warfronts to end up with the best pvp gear.
    I udnerstand where you are comming however this is kind of grind i can accept. I can grind something if I can just join game and do it. Playing Pve is like terrible grind for me because I need to join game every single day/weekend or I will lose to much to stay in group.
    I m not sure if I should join this game now. If there is only 5 warfronts and conquest ( zerg always wins) it ll be boring for me.
    I cant find any good pvp focused MMO for me and now I really don't know what to do but thank you for your tips. I appreciate that so much.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Healq View Post
    I m not sure if I should join this game now. If there is only 5 warfronts and conquest ( zerg always wins) it ll be boring for me.
    I cant find any good pvp focused MMO for me and now I really don't know what to do but thank you for your tips. I appreciate that so much.
    Rift really isn't an MMO for someone interested in PVP exclusively. You are chosing the wrong game and genre.

    Few MMOs on the current market are focused on PVP. Simply because the MMO genre was never intended to support PVP. PVP is a corruption within the genre.

    Camelot Unchained is upcoming PVP only MMO. No PVE possible supposedly. Going to take a while before release.

    There is also Warhammer, Darkfall, Age of Wushu, Lineage 2 and to a lesser degree, Ultima Online which all have a heavy emphasis on PVP. Though these games are fringe and have low populations.

    Otherwise, no. Your desire for PVP in this genre is misplaced.

  8. #8
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    prepare for your face to melt when you work out how many conquest points you need to get gear, im rank 73 now it takes forrreeeevvvveeeeeerrrrrrrr

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Nykolas View Post
    prepare for your face to melt when you work out how many conquest points you need to get gear, im rank 73 now it takes forrreeeevvvveeeeeerrrrrrrr
    There is no disputing this. We are talking top of the pile best pvp gear in the game here though. The grind is pretty brutal though.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Few MMOs on the current market are focused on PVP. Simply because the MMO genre was never intended to support PVP. PVP is a corruption within the genre.
    Not really, the genre has always had PvP (Ultima or even way back to Neverwinter Nights)

    The only corruption is how the RPG element and living world of these games has been reduced in order to fufil the needs of those who resemble Pavlov's dogs, who are simply concerned with thier next reward and little else (including fun gameplay), things that make for a realistic living world get in the way of that such as PvP, public dungeons, actually having to travel to the dungeon, actual penalties for dying, the solofication of the games, etc, which have in part turned the genre (a handful of exceptions like EVE aside) into a glorified co-op, where the world is merely a very long tutorial that then serves as a glorifed lobby, there is very little 'massively multiplayer' about the piss poor excuses for MMORPGs these days.

    Indeed the only meaningful 'massively multiplayer' aspects are in PvP (RvR, WvW).

    The genre as a whole is utterly stagnant and devoid of new ideas, which is why game after game attempts to copy WoW and fails, becasue the limited playerbase of Pavlov's dogs is saturated (and these moronic devs can't figure out WoW has an inbuilt advantage of years of content, huge playerbase and has had time to work out its issues, yes WoW was fortunate with its timing), yet just as MMOs have barely grown in recent years other games have exploded and dwarf MMOs (at least in the West) take LoL, 32 million active accounts and guess what, it is PvP...
    Last edited by zurgs; 2013-03-12 at 07:54 PM.

  11. #11
    You say people want open world pvp, then use the example of Pavlovs dogs. Is it not true also that human nature has designed us to not want to be ganked repeatedly. This game has Rogues that can stealth and have a inherent advantage in open world pvp.

    Aion is a prime example of why this world pvp debate falls on its face. It turned into a massive gank fest of 3 on 1 teams making a joke out of the game and causing mass unsubs. The ones doing the ganking said suck it up and come back with a team and the ones who did not have a team were screwed until they quit. It caused massive faction disparity and the game essentially failed to the point they were forced to go F2P.

    If you guys want hardcore pvp Age of Conan has like Blood and Glory server devoted to that I think. The idea that Arenas = pvp in a MMO is something Blizzard started, then regretted doing because of the effect it had on the genre. They marketed it so well that they are now stuck with it.
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  12. #12
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zurgs View Post
    Not really, the genre has always had PvP (Ultima or even way back to Neverwinter Nights)

    The only corruption is how the RPG element and living world of these games has been reduced in order to fufil the needs of those who resemble Pavlov's dogs, who are simply concerned with thier next reward and little else (including fun gameplay
    What's the weather like up there your majesty?

    Not sure why you think RPG element needs to include PvP. I don't remember having to kill other players when I played Zelda, or Fable, or Final Fantasy, etc, etc, etc, etc. So the addition of other players suddenly means I need to be constantly fighting others in my quest to level up and play a hero in a story?

    PvP actually belongs less in an MMORPG than many genres. Not only from a story perspective, but in a complete system design. PvP too often influences PvE in a prfoundly negative way if nothing just because of balancing issues. Do you know why 32 million people play LoL? Because it's free. You know why else? The gameplay (which does not = PvP).

    Do you know how many times I've played against another person (PvP) in my time playing LoL? Not once. I play against the computer because I don't like PvP...I just like the concept of the heroes, leveling them and their spells, and getting them geared out to kill things. Because shocker, it reminds me of Warcraft 3...which is conveniently where MOBAs started anyways.

    PS - All of your ideas are terrible for the genre and aren't new, which you so adamantly complained about. They are archaic and have been done before. Almost none of them have stood the test of time. Good riddance outdated, punishing game systems that existed for no reason.
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  13. #13
    Personally, I think PvP in these types of games is silly, to put it mildly. I mean seriously, what does it matter if I am Guardian or Defiant? I am out in x zone trying to prevent y baddie from getting a foothold in the area that he will use to take over the world and destroy both Guardians and Defiants. So while I am out in X zone, let's just say I am Guardian, trying to save the world, Mr. Defiant comes along and goes, hmm, instead of helping you save the world I am going to kill you, then run off and kill some other people. Screw the fact you are trying to save the world, let the world burn. I thought the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Why are they fighting amongst each other when we both have the same goal of killing Crucia/Regulos/Ultimate-Bad-Guy?

    I completely understand people that want to PvP though. It is definitely much more challenging when you do not know what the other guy is gonna do, unlike in PvE where it is all scripted encounters and basically just doing a dance. Not to say that raiding is easy but it is consistently predictable. PvP however is pretty predictable as well. When you see someone, and the buffs they have, you can pretty much identify what spec they are and can know what to expect to a degree. Having to figure that out, and adjust your own strategy, on the fly, as more people show up and you have to determine what they are and how to counter them and who needs to die first, makes PvP dynamic, fun and challenging. I get it, it's just not for me and really does not fit in this type of game.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    What's the weather like up there your majesty?
    If you can't cope with differing opinions perhaps you should avoid public forums.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Not sure why you think RPG element needs to include PvP. I don't remember having to kill other players when I played Zelda, or Fable, or Final Fantasy, etc, etc, etc, etc. So the addition of other players suddenly means I need to be constantly fighting others in my quest to level up and play a hero in a story?

    PvP actually belongs less in an MMORPG than many genres. Not only from a story perspective, but in a complete system design. PvP too often influences PvE in a prfoundly negative way if nothing just because of balancing issues.
    Not really, PvP is realistic, that is why it belongs, the same reason public dungeons belong, the same reason travelling to the dungeon belongs, the same reason an actual difficult world where people need to group belongs, because they make for a living breathing world that actually involves being 'massively multiplayer' and an RPG, rather than a fantasy/sci-fi themed co-op (or in many cases solo game) with a glorified lobby.

    As for balance, goes both ways PvE decisions effect PvP in a negative way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Do you know why 32 million people play LoL? Because it's free. You know why else? The gameplay (which does not = PvP). Do you know how many times I've played against another person (PvP) in my time playing LoL? Not once. I play against the computer because I don't like PvP..
    For a large majority of the 32 million it does indeed = PvP. As for it being free, so are LOTRO, Tera, Runes of Magic, Allods, SWTOR, etc, now add up their combined numbers and it will be less than DOTA2, a game still in beta.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    PS - All of your ideas are terrible for the genre and aren't new, which you so adamantly complained about. They are archaic and have been done before. Almost none of them have stood the test of time. Good riddance outdated, punishing game systems that existed for no reason.
    Try and keep up, they weren't ideas they were examples of how the genre has been corrupted, as for outdated, that sums up the genre pretty well right now, which is why it has been stagnant for years, whilst other genres continue to grow and outpace MMORPGs.
    Last edited by zurgs; 2013-03-12 at 08:23 PM.

  15. #15
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zurgs View Post
    If you can't cope with differing opinions perhaps you should avoid public forums.
    If you can't cope with expressing your opinion without resorting to calling millions of people Pavlov's dogs, then maybe you should avoid this website entirely as you will be ripped to shreds.

    Quote Originally Posted by zurgs View Post
    IfNot really, PvP is realistic, that is why it belongs, the same reason public dungeons belong, the same reason travelling to the dungeon belongs, the same reason an actual difficult world where people need to group belongs, because they make for a living breathing world that actually involves being 'massively multiplayer' and an RPG, rather than a fantasy/sci-fi themed co-op (or in many cases solo game) with a glorified lobby.
    I don't disagree that many things add to realism, but MMO's aren't virtual reality. There's not a single game out there that allows you to fully immerse yourself in a world to the degree that you seem to want that will be appealing to a large number of players. If lots of companies were in the market to make niche games, then you would probably see that sort of thing. Until it happens, I'd probably refrain from labeling the rest of the people who enjoy a less punishing game experience as animals that respond to being fed treats and care for nothing else.

    Quote Originally Posted by zurgs View Post
    IfTry and keep up, they weren't ideas they were examples of how the genre has been corrupted, as for outdated, that sums up the genre pretty well right now, which is why it has been stagnant for years, whilst other genres continue to grow and outpace MMORPGs.
    I'm talking about your ideas that we need death penalties, no queue systems, completely open world PvP, and no QoL features that have been evolved over the last decade of making MMOs. Try and keep up with your own words. Additionally, what are all these amazing genres that are growing and outpacing MMORPGs? FPS and Sports games? Surely they have a long list of innovations that would account for their amazing sales figures that transform the experience you can have now vs. what you had 5 years ago.

    Oh wait...
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Rift really isn't an MMO for someone interested in PVP exclusively. You are chosing the wrong game and genre.

    Few MMOs on the current market are focused on PVP. Simply because the MMO genre was never intended to support PVP. PVP is a corruption within the genre.

    Camelot Unchained is upcoming PVP only MMO. No PVE possible supposedly. Going to take a while before release.

    There is also Warhammer, Darkfall, Age of Wushu, Lineage 2 and to a lesser degree, Ultima Online which all have a heavy emphasis on PVP. Though these games are fringe and have low populations.

    Otherwise, no. Your desire for PVP in this genre is misplaced.
    This is pretty much spot on. If you want pvp you should probably explore some of the other genre's out there, like Hawken or Tribes:Ascend.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    I don't disagree that many things add to realism, but MMO's aren't virtual reality. There's not a single game out there that allows you to fully immerse yourself in a world to the degree that you seem to want that will be appealing to a large number of players. If lots of companies were in the market to make niche games, then you would probably see that sort of thing. Until it happens, I'd probably refrain from labeling the rest of the people who enjoy a less punishing game experience as animals that respond to being fed treats and care for nothing else.
    I wasn't labelling them as animals as such, it was not literal, it was a reference to many of those who basically play MMORPGs for "rewards" over anything else and that the result of that is the MMO aspect is largely co-op and the RPG part is virtually non-existent (yes there are exceptions, but that is a minority), hence I find it amusing when someone claims PvP which has been there from the start is a corruption of the MMORPG, when the reality is the entire genre (or at least WoW type games) has been corrupted due to them designing for the aforementioned Pavlov types.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    I'm talking about your ideas that we need death penalties, no queue systems, completely open world PvP, and no QoL features that have been evolved over the last decade of making MMOs. Try and keep up with your own words.
    And once again, they are not ideas, I was responding to the claim PvP is a corruption of MMORPGs, that PvP was never intended. That list is things that were a part of MMORPGs, and their removal shows how the genre has been corrupted by pandering to the needs of the previously mentioned Pavlov's dogs, e.g - travelling to a dungeon was part of the RPG aspect of the genre, but this slows down gold per hour, tokens per hour, etc and that it is meant to be an RPG is o fno concern to them, all that matters is rewards, so it was removed in many games.
    Last edited by zurgs; 2013-03-12 at 09:41 PM.

  18. #18
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zurgs View Post
    *snip*
    Fair enough clarification...just letting you know that it came across heavily insulting and harsh. And I would be an expert on that subject, lol.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    Well better then grinding for no rewards. This guy has played WoW for 7 years, so making him believe that Arena does not have flaws is a failed idea from the start. You can play WoW for one patch cycle to find out why Arena is a bad idea. Balancing an entire game off of 5v5 Arena is a bad idea a whole new level. Only reason it still exist is because hardcore grinders ok with FOTM classes every patch cycle do not say shit about it.

    GW2 pvp is not intuitive and is based off of simple skill bars that might as be on a playstation or xbox for the amount of thought it requires. If this guy played WoW pvp for 7 years he will cry laughing at how simplified GW2 pvp is compared to Wow. That GW2 pvp line about being the saviour of mmo pvp worked before the game released, but there is a reality that has set in with the mmo player base about ArenaNET's lies.

    Rift attempts to standardize baseline damage by boosting everyone's valor up to the same point. All pvp gear has the same valor (pvp mitigation stat) across all ranks <---think WoW classic or BC. Majority of warfronts you join you are bolstered to match the gear level of people you are playing against. So in a 10-20 warfront if you join at lvl 10 you are bolstered to lvl 18ish give or take a little.

    Major issue with Rift pvp is at end game they made the grind for the best gear a little brutal. I guess this can be a good thing because it sure as fuck is not handed out. Conquest is essentially 3 faction pvp..think Wintergrasp but add another faction. You are given the option of join 1 of 3 teams.

    It is not a 100% random queue so in US majority of the gear players will jump to Dominion then Oathsworm followed by Nightfall. Think of it like all the strong fast kids getting picked for dodgeball and the left overs getting put to Nightfall. It is one of Trions major fails at a relatively fun war front.
    I played wow since end tbc, got max lvl in lichking and left november 2011... dont know how many years that sums up to, but arena was launched in TBC and dont know how long that xpac was out before lich king launched? Well, guess that bro can add a couple of more years than me but shouldnt be that much difference. My bf played since late vanilla up to same point as me, so should be on par with the OP.
    However, when we played Rift we soon realised that there was no point in pvping what so ever. There simply would be no competitive moment, just a grind for gear for the sake of grinding for gear. Not that we didnt do the same in wow, but gear grind was really fast and also arena/rbgs as a competitive addition to it. However, pvp is neglected in wow and pretty screwed and that's why we left and never looked back. Wow also simplified stats and specs, and that's why we hoped that Rift would be good, the soul system in Rift is how we wanted specs in wow to develop, but in wow it went another direction. And Rift had no intentions of trying to be competitive. Also I played conquest, only reason I resubbed for a month in Rift... to try if they finally were trying to do something fun in pvp. However, I lasted in wintergrasp and played it regulary entire wotlk, I had a hard time trying to last a month in rift conquest.

    GW2 had lots of potential in it's spvp, but I agree it has failed in many fields. They got a little time now to get things right, no serious competitor out there. But yea, me and my bf left GW2 as well for the moment, since the pve focus have been too large and also imbalances, bugs lasting too long.. you know the story. It's wvwvw got potential, I dont know how it is now but there used to be heavy queues, and with limited gametime you dont want to spend time entire evening in a queue... so we never got into that stuff. However, it's successful and popular in GW2, and the little time I have spent there do faceroll Rift conquest.

    Have to sleep now, just added some comments =)
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  20. #20
    im a former wow pvp since BC and just started playing rift for pvp only.here is what i seen so far.1- conquest is lame,all people do is ride around and cap/attack these big vessels things and thats it.from time to time you run into another team and range kill everyone.if your melee forget about it.thats all there is to end game pvp in rift and im sad to say it.

    a few weeks ago they buffed the "res" on pvp gear and in doing so it buffed healers beyond belief.it take like 3 or 4 people to kill one healer and they just sit there and spam the same heal over and over again.

    its easy to ge tthe first set of pvp gear but after that its a dumb as grind.there is no sklll involved its just time sitting in wfs working on your prestige,thats it.wfs are not half bad all in all,but pvp is lacking in rift.

    and i should add that some classes/specs have way to much burst.kiting in rift is beyond dumb,melee have some gap closers but no "grip" think charge jumping in wow.if th makers of rigt went in and made a few changes here and there rifts pvp would not be half bad.these are just some of the things i have noticed since i started playing rift.

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