My issue with Blizzards new "gearing through LFR" game design.

[Deleted]

Blizzard adds dungeons in 4.1 and 4.3, players complain that they feel as if they are forced to do ZG/ZA and then the 3 4.3 dungeons ad naseum.

Blizzard decides to use LFR now to gear up players and not do dungeons, and players complain.

Another example of Blizzard's impossible situation with some people.

Could be that they are different people? Unless you can show it's the same people complaining?

[Illintent420]

I see everyone talking about these keys, yet i have not even gotten a single one. Where do you get them from?

Randomly off mobs on the isle. I also got one in the box from the last daily.

[Silverblade Paladin]

Blizzard adds dungeons in 4.1 and 4.3, players complain that they feel as if they are forced to do ZG/ZA and then the 3 4.3 dungeons ad naseum.

Blizzard decides to use LFR now to gear up players and not do dungeons, and players complain.

Another example of Blizzard's impossible situation with some people.

I would rather do ZA/ZG or Dragon Soul dungeons constantly, 1000x more than having to grind out LFR's to gear.

At least I could grind them over and over constantly throughout the day on my Tank, with instant queues and be able to get full 378 Epics and Valor Cap easily, and be able to step into Dragon Soul Normal-Mode instantly on Alts.

As opposed to this godawful hitting 90 ->
Getting stuck in heroics until I can do MSV ilvl 460->
Getting stuck in MSV with terrible drops until ilvl470 ->
Getting stuck in HoF/ToES with Terrible Drops ->
Only just having high enough Ilvl 480 to then do ToT LFR for more terrible drops ->
Finally geared enough to join a guild for Normal modes but being so over the Raid already due to running it 10times in a row before I even got geared enough.->
Getting bored and telling myself next patch will be better.

[smokii]

I see everyone talking about these keys, yet i have not even gotten a single one. Where do you get them from?

i got one from a random box on the isle of thunder (looks like the guo-lai caches), then i got another one from the reward bag you get from doing the dailies. they should also drop from random mobs, possibly just the rares though - not sure

[Silverblade Paladin]

I don't want to go back to TBC style progression, where if you started late it was more or less impossible to catch up to current content. But the nearly instant catch-up models from Wrath/Cata are just as bad on the opposite extreme, and should also never come back, IMO.

TBC wasn't hard at all to catch up, Justice Badges gave plenty of Epics at all points during the expac, and so did Isle of Quel'danas. TBC was actually only 2nd to WOTLK for being easy to catch up, It was only during the stages when you needed to down bosses to unlock the new raids which was hard.

[Hotsforyou]

Ya, i really find Scenarios pretty boring.

Would love some new dungeons this next patch. Preferably ones that are not an aoe fest.

[Crym]

My understanding was that LFR was to make raiding more accessible for those who, for whatever reason, cannot regularly attend guild runs. Can a guild not start raiding the first tier of this expansion on "normal mode" with just what can be gained from 5 man content?

[Gande]

Knit picking on the first post, if it takes you a few hours of every day to hit valor cap you're simply not being efficient. My warlock hit 90 a week before the patch. Were LFR for throne have been added the day the patch launched, that warlock would be able to enter it. This is without purchasing any items, and with myself crafting only the 476 hands (which have already been replaced). He has already cleared the 5.0 raids on normal (without being dragged through by guildies) and is now ready to enter the alt raid we have, set in line to become my main if needed.

You state that in earlier expansions it was easier to catch up. It was only easier if you put no thought into it. If you put thought into it, right now is by far the fastest you can catch up, as the warlock isn't the only one i've geared up in this fashion.

[Crym]

When you know that you can unsub for months, yet within a week you can be nearly as well geared as someone that played that entire time, what reason do you have to keep playing?

Fun? The challenge of doing content on the cutting edge? Anyone who's in it for the challenge, or just to have fun, wouldn't really care that they could cancel for a few months and then get the shinies easier.

[darklogrus]

Blizzard adds dungeons in 4.1 and 4.3, players complain that they feel as if they are forced to do ZG/ZA and then the 3 4.3 dungeons ad naseum.

Blizzard decides to use LFR now to gear up players and not do dungeons, and players complain.

Another example of Blizzard's impossible situation with some people.

ZA/ZG were just rehashed dungeons which for the life of me I don't see how it fit in with the Cata theme. As for LFR, the problem is the ilvl curve, sitting in 463 ilvl, replacing 9 items with gear in the 476-491 ilvl range and I barely cracked the 472 mark. Thats with Chest, Hands, and Off Hand being crafted, and 3 pieces coming from Rep. With the other 3 coming from 5 weeks of Vaults, and 3 weeks of Hearts and Terrace and thats not even counting the coins used.

[Deleted]

I know people are going to say "but you can just go grind elder coins for more chances!!"

The people who say that should be relieved of their right to have and/or express opinions of their own!

[Silverblade Paladin]

Knit picking on the first post, if it takes you a few hours of every day to hit valor cap you're simply not being efficient. My warlock hit 90 a week before the patch. Were LFR for throne have been added the day the patch launched, that warlock would be able to enter it. This is without purchasing any items, and with myself crafting only the 476 hands (which have already been replaced). He has already cleared the 5.0 raids on normal (without being dragged through by guildies) and is now ready to enter the alt raid we have, set in line to become my main if needed.

You state that in earlier expansions it was easier to catch up. It was only easier if you put no thought into it. If you put thought into it, right now is by far the fastest you can catch up, as the warlock isn't the only one i've geared up in this fashion.

Explain how you did it in a week for the guy then, I'm curious aswell. Since it sounds like you played for 12 hrs a day for a week straight.

[KrazyK923]

ZA/ZG were just rehashed dungeons which for the life of me I don't see how it fit in with the Cata theme

Relitigating this argument is pointless. ZG was not a rehash by any stretch of the imagination. The only one was ZA.

s opposed to this godawful hitting 90 ->
Getting stuck in heroics until I can do MSV ilvl 460->
Getting stuck in MSV with terrible drops until ilvl470 ->
Getting stuck in HoF/ToES with Terrible Drops ->

Guessing you ignored the increased drop rates. Doesn't fit the narrative.

I would rather do ZA/ZG or Dragon Soul dungeons constantly, 1000x more than having to grind out LFR's to gear.

*laughs uncontrollably* Gotcha. Like I said, Blizzard can't win with people with your mentality. You bash the shit out of a system when it exists, and then when the next thing you dislike comes out, you go back and act like what you originally complained about wasn't so bad.

[Gurbz]

I would rather do ZA/ZG or Dragon Soul dungeons constantly, 1000x more than having to grind out LFR's to gear.

At least I could grind them over and over constantly throughout the day on my Tank, with instant queues and be able to get full 378 Epics and Valor Cap easily, and be able to step into Dragon Soul Normal-Mode instantly on Alts.

As opposed to this godawful hitting 90 ->
Getting stuck in heroics until I can do MSV ilvl 460->
Getting stuck in MSV with terrible drops until ilvl470 ->
Getting stuck in HoF/ToES with Terrible Drops ->
Only just having high enough Ilvl 480 to then do ToT LFR for more terrible drops ->
Finally geared enough to join a guild for Normal modes but being so over the Raid already due to running it 10times in a row before I even got geared enough.->
Getting bored and telling myself next patch will be better.

The LFR drops are not all that bad. They never were as bad as people went on and on about, and they are even better now. Again, I was able to get 7 pieces, without coin rolls, this past week, and heard from many people who had similar experiences.

There is valor gear that helps with how much you have to run LFR. Much of it only requires honored rep. The 5.2 reps are stupidly easy to get and give you access to 496 gear. You can even get a 496 neck without any rep at all from the new valor vendor.

And I have seen people make this claim many times before, but why in the world would you have to run ToT LFR in order to raid ToT normal? Are you going to get into a raid pushing heroic ToT content? No, but then again if you are that far behind you should in no way expect to. Find a lesser progressed guild and gear up in normals that way. If that guild is unable to do the content you are interested in, once you have what you need to make the jump, start looking for a guild that does.

[weedsurge]

this is a business, it always comes back to their bottom line, allowing people to gear quickly and catch right up whenever they want would hurt blizzard because people wouldn't have such a hard time quitting for a while.

also allowing people to catch up quickly is a kick in the dick to the people who spent months acquiring the gear slowly, which im sure is the sort of answer a blue post would make, but really they just lose a ton of money when people feel they can come and go as they please without losing anything.

[Silverblade Paladin]

Guessing you ignored the increased drop rates. Doesn't fit the narrative.

Didn't ignore it at all actually, I was very hopeful for it.

Thus far I have done all the LFR's, have gone through 27 Coins, AND have received 3 pieces of Loot, 2 of them being the same item from the same boss.

Terrible drops ahoy. At least in the DS heroic dungeons Had I spent that much time in there I would have at least 9 pieces of gear.

[KrazyK923]

Terrible drops ahoy. At least in the DS heroic dungeons Had I spent that much time in there I would have at least 9 pieces of gear.

Might want to take off those nostalgia glasses. As a caster, I had to kill Benedictus at least 30 times before he dropped his weapon. Melee plate wearers had to kill that first boss a billion times to get their item.

You'd have 9 items, but you probably couldn't use any of them.

[Venant]

It seems like you aren't properly recalling how grinding JPs worked in BC. It was obnoxious because you spent all day forming groups since each heroic could only be run once a day, and some were so annoying that nobody really wanted to do them. Generally if you had just leveled you weren't running these 5 mans so you could jump into BT or Sunwell, you were running them so you could do Karazhan and then after that maybe make the transition to 25 man and do Mag/Gruul. The current system is WAY better, you get to raid casually whenever you want to, and if you want to find a real raiding guild you don't need to jump guilds over and over. You don't even acknowledge that back then many people only ever ran 5 mans and never saw the inside of a raid. I don't even see the point of getting gear if you want to just stay stuck in time killing the same stuff over and over.

[Anjerith]

My reasoning is, it should be both quick AND easy to get gear that is of the previous patches quality (not every slot, but at least 1/3-1/2 of the slots), to allow people to migrate into newer content, without the gear road blocks that seem to be in MoP.

Gearing is both quick and easy, or at least - it was during 5.1. Perhaps the 10% nerf and increased drop chances in that tier actually make it harder to beat bosses and get gear? It's a fucking Enigma.

[Gurbz]

Fun? The challenge of doing content on the cutting edge? Anyone who's in it for the challenge, or just to have fun, wouldn't really care that they could cancel for a few months and then get the shinies easier.

No, they probably wouldn't. But for the vast majority of raiding guilds/players who grind away for months and months in normal mode raids, only to then realize that everything they had worked for is now pointless because of a new 5-man, such instant catch-ups are hugely demoralizing, and lead to overall sub losses for the game.