My issue with Blizzards new "gearing through LFR" game design.

[xanzul]

Could be that they are different people? Unless you can show it's the same people complaining?

On here and on the official forums it actually has been many of the same people. I would avoid making the claim it is all different people because a cursory glance at their post histories will quickly make you look like a fool.

---------- Post added 2013-03-12 at 01:03 PM ----------

Ya, i really find Scenarios pretty boring.

Would love some new dungeons this next patch. Preferably ones that are not an aoe fest.

At best you will only get challenge modes but it seems as though the people who don't want an "aoe fest" rarely have the skill to do anything actually challenging or hard. In fact it seems as though they are simply parroting the same tired crap that gets trotted out on the forums on a daily basis.

---------- Post added 2013-03-12 at 01:05 PM ----------

Fun? The challenge of doing content on the cutting edge? Anyone who's in it for the challenge, or just to have fun, wouldn't really care that they could cancel for a few months and then get the shinies easier.

Well good thing those who want "challenging raids" aren't required to outgear the content making the main complaint in this thread a moot point.

[Pengalor]

they buffed drop rates in 5.0 LFR

they put loads of elder charms into the treasure cache scenario (seriously, i got 16 from 1 run and also picked up another key last night)

you also get elder charms from mobs on the isle of thunder

they also nerfed 5.0 normal and HM raids by 10%



gearing up through LFR is fine, it should be a LOT easier than it was pre-5.2

also, long queues for LFR is just the way it is, i dont like having to wait 30 mins to get into a raid that's on the last boss - especially not when i need gear from the first boss, but 30 mins wait time (during which you can do dailies) is a lot easier than forming a guild, recruiting sensible raiders and trying to do normal modes. otherwise, queue as a tank or healer - tanks are always in demand for LFR and as such get much quicker queues.

Except my friend and I are STILL regularly getting double gold in 5.0 LFRs, the drop rates were not buffed enough. Playing alts right now is a nightmare.

[xanzul]

ZA/ZG were just rehashed dungeons which for the life of me I don't see how it fit in with the Cata theme. As for LFR, the problem is the ilvl curve, sitting in 463 ilvl, replacing 9 items with gear in the 476-491 ilvl range and I barely cracked the 472 mark. Thats with Chest, Hands, and Off Hand being crafted, and 3 pieces coming from Rep. With the other 3 coming from 5 weeks of Vaults, and 3 weeks of Hearts and Terrace and thats not even counting the coins used.

You don't see how "rehashed" dungeons fit in with the theme of revamping Azeroth in Cata? Really?

[Contesto]

... LFR as a catch up mechanic, it makes you raid to get raid gear...

makes you raid, lol. LFR is as far away from raiding as riding your bicycle from motorcycling. The alibi-statement when they introduced LFR was "to see content" for people unwilling or unable to experience the raidcontent in a regular enviroment. And now it is the catchup mechanism with the big plus they dont have to spend time on 5-man content, which is already realy faint this expansion.

[Ceece]

It was easy in 5.1, and it will be easy with 5.2. Playing catch up for the next tier, has always been easy since patch 3.0. Not sure how much easier it can get. It's in a good spot, I believe.

[Pengalor]

The only fear I have is that by the time te last raid of the expansion is out, the queue times of 5.0 and 5.2 LFR will be comepletely out of control and it will be impossible to gear up through LFR because MoP isn't as alt friendly as other expansions which could result in a lot less people running the older raids in some time, but I guess we'll see if that's the case in some time.

Hell, it's already bad enough as it is with Terrace LFR sometimes hitting an hour queue for my Hunter, can't wait until there are a zillion other LFRs out...

[xanzul]

Didn't ignore it at all actually, I was very hopeful for it.

Thus far I have done all the LFR's, have gone through 27 Coins, AND have received 3 pieces of Loot, 2 of them being the same item from the same boss.

Terrible drops ahoy. At least in the DS heroic dungeons Had I spent that much time in there I would have at least 9 pieces of gear.

I have gone months without getting a drop in normal modes. A few weeks in LFR is absolutely nothing at all and again despite asinine claims of bad luck the drop rates in tier 14 LFR were increased and we can basically cap out on elder charms with very little effort. I'm sorry but I'm just not buying that gearing is remotely hard at all now.

---------- Post added 2013-03-12 at 01:14 PM ----------

Of course it was easy in 5.1, you only need to grind dungeons to have the gear to be Ready for MSV, and grinding dungeons where you have no weekly cap on the amount you can run is Easy.

Getting a fresh 90 now in 5.2 when most guilds have moved onto ToT and generally don't run previous content results in the Heroic->LFR MSV->LFR HOF->LFR ToES->LFR ToT, gear circus, Not really an Enigma, but I understand some people do have 12 hours a day to sink into WoW.

I'm sorry but whether you grind LFR endlessly or grind heroics endlessly you are going to be grinding something endlessly. All you people are doing is nitpicking about where the grinding takes place.

[Pilek01]

basicaly what the OP does is crying and whining about no new 5 mans where you can gear up in 2 days and skip t14

[fengosa]

http://openraid.us/

Run a few groups with people and make some real ID friends. Shouldnt be hard to gear up at all this way.

[xanzul]

The problem with LFR as a way to catch up on gear is that more often than not you win shit you already have.. and then you use coins for extra shit you already have. The badge/justice/valor system allowed you to pick your upgrade. MoP valor system is the worst the game has seen. Rewards locked behind rep locked behind more rep is very bad design.

Blizzard tried to provide an alternate gearing path but most of you screamed bloody murder over it. Honestly you only have yourselves to blame.

[Freia]

You don't need to do LFR in order to gear up for normal.

Blizz has repeatedly stated that LFR is for people who want to see content without the time commitment. Their intent with LFR is not to use it as a stepping stone towards raid progression.

Through professions and factions, you should be geared up fairly well for regular raids without even stepping once into LFR.

And they have repeatedly said it is also a catch up method. They never once said LFR is only for people to see content. If that were the case, it would not drop gear.

[xanzul]

I got two reasons to hate this, and I'll give you the short version. I'm organizing a lot of complaints with MoP and the death of fun for an exit essay. Yes, exit.

1. Just another grind. In the old days you grind heroics, then you raid. Now you grind heroics, grind dailies, then grind lfr, then finally raid.

2. Scenarios. They're coming for your heroics and raids. This easy Zerg rush content will soon be the new heroics, and raiding will be 5/10 man.

If you don't like grinds you were playing the wrong game from the get go so don't go blaming Blizzard for that. Don't even try to claim we weren't grinding the same 3 5 mans over and over and over and over and over and over for well over 6 months in 4.3. I love how that was just fine and dandy and now all of a sudden it is the worst possible thing. I swear you people just want something to whine about.

As for scenarios they are fine. Don't like them? Don't do them. Simple as that. Blizzard is still trying to figure out where they belong in this game and it isn't hurting anyone whatsoever that they exist. Cool it with the scenario hate unless you have an actual legitimate complaint about them (which you don't and I have yet to see anyone have one). The claim that scenarios are going to result in 5 man raids is just moronic. If you are leaving the game then in all honesty good riddance. You haven't seemed to have liked the game for quite some time even long before Mop was in beta.

---------- Post added 2013-03-12 at 01:41 PM ----------

I think it is a precursor to the Death of 5 mans. Why design 8-10 5 man instances when they can just under tune the raid tier? Yep I can totally see them giving you the needed gear through leveling, and then making the next step LFR instead of a 5 man grind.

Are we seriously going to pretend there weren't a lot of threads whining about grinding 5 mans? The state of the game today is a direct result of player complaints and proves beyond a shadow of a doubt you should be careful what you ask for because you might just get it.

---------- Post added 2013-03-12 at 01:44 PM ----------

They are obviously promoting LFR and refuse to provide other means of 'gearing up' the exact same way we've been pigeon-holed into daily quest grinds for rep. And don't get me started on arenas....this is just a stage tho and it will pass for Blizz.

You mean I imagined crafted 476/496 gear? I imagined faction tap world bosses that drop raid quality gear? I imagined Blizzard giving away elder charms like candy? Really? Are you sure you want to go with the whole "Blizzard is making people gear up in LFR" bullshit?

---------- Post added 2013-03-12 at 01:47 PM ----------

Except my friend and I are STILL regularly getting double gold in 5.0 LFRs, the drop rates were not buffed enough. Playing alts right now is a nightmare.

Only because you are making it a nightmare. Why do you need to have all your alts as geared as your main? Why does it need to happen quickly? People seem to forget the reason why alts became popular was due to a lack of things to do and content.

[Lanthanum]

The only fear I have is that by the time te last raid of the expansion is out, the queue times of 5.0 and 5.2 LFR will be comepletely out of control and it will be impossible to gear up through LFR because MoP isn't as alt friendly as other expansions which could result in a lot less people running the older raids in some time, but I guess we'll see if that's the case in some time.

That is my concern too. I don't know how many segments LFR Siege of Orgrimmar is going to have but for the sake of argument, let's say three.

That means sometime after 5.4 launches we will potentially have 12 LFR segments. Each one needs two tanks and six healers. These two roles are already causing quite lengthy queues. I can't imagine the queue time for MSV Part 1 at this point. As far as I know, if you only do LFR, you won't be able to skip these to get to the latest raid. That is not an exciting prospect for a late in the expansion alt.

[Deleted]

On here and on the official forums it actually has been many of the same people. I would avoid making the claim it is all different people because a cursory glance at their post histories will quickly make you look like a fool.

---------- Post added 2013-03-12 at 01:03 PM ----------



At best you will only get challenge modes but it seems as though the people who don't want an "aoe fest" rarely have the skill to do anything actually challenging or hard. In fact it seems as though they are simply parroting the same tired crap that gets trotted out on the forums on a daily basis.

---------- Post added 2013-03-12 at 01:05 PM ----------



Well good thing those who want "challenging raids" aren't required to outgear the content making the main complaint in this thread a moot point.

Did I say they were all different people? What my original comment replied to was the suggestion that people who disagree with Blizzard's decisions were one homogenous mass shifting their opinion just to be contrary against every design decision and "Blizzard can't win". To suggest otherwise would make you the fool.

[kingriku]

makes you raid, lol. LFR is as far away from raiding as riding your bicycle from motorcycling. The alibi-statement when they introduced LFR was "to see content" for people unwilling or unable to experience the raidcontent in a regular enviroment. And now it is the catchup mechanism with the big plus they dont have to spend time on 5-man content, which is already realy faint this expansion.

Oh come on now it is raiding, its the same as doing last tier pugs with current tier gear. You're just trying to nit pick and you're wrong lfr is raiding doesn't matter if you care to agree or not.

[Crym]

Well good thing those who want "challenging raids" aren't required to outgear the content making the main complaint in this thread a moot point.

I agree. I miss progression because people do stuff that they outgear since the rewards are still viable and it kills the enjoyment of actually doing things as intended. However, that doesn't mean there shouldn't be any "catch up" mechanics either. I didn't really start raiding seriously until BC, but getting new players, switching mains, and all that sort of thing sucked back then.

There are a few good ways to remove the "kill this boss 50 times to get the one drop you need" feel of cutting edge progression (which is necessary to keep the really extreme raiders busy) without just handing the previous raid tier's rewards out to anyone who stumbles through a 5 man.

[Prokne]

The only real problem to gearing your character quickly for newer tiers is that valor gear still costs valor which has a cap. If it was jp you could chain heroics until you had enough points to buy last tier's gear. It also requires rep which would be bad for new players without 2x rep commendations.

So the best way to gear up for a new character is basically the same as what everyone did at the beginning of the exp:
Do dailies for factions that give you the best gear.
Run dungeons for extra VP
Run LFRs when you reach the ilvl for valor and gear
Buy discounted rep gear

They also have the option of getting carried for gear in old raids by their friends guild they joined or running openraid.

So you wont really need to run lfr but it will probably be faster than if you didnt.

[refire]

Except my friend and I are STILL regularly getting double gold in 5.0 LFRs, the drop rates were not buffed enough. Playing alts right now is a nightmare.

The drop rates were buffed quite a bit, at the lowest end of the spectrum at least to 29%. If you and your friend still got no loot then you were a statistical anomaly because there is only a .03% chance of that occurring.

Now what I imagine you meant to say is we still aren't getting as much loot as we want or we still aren't getting the loot that we want.

The only real problem to gearing your character quickly for newer tiers is that valor gear still costs valor which has a cap. If it was jp you could chain heroics until you had enough points to buy last tier's gear. It also requires rep which would be bad for new players without 2x rep commendations.

So the best way to gear up for a new character is basically the same as what everyone did at the beginning of the exp:
Do dailies for factions that give you the best gear.
Run dungeons for extra VP
Run LFRs when you reach the ilvl for valor and gear
Buy discounted rep gear

They also have the option of getting carried for gear in old raids by their friends guild they joined or running openraid.

So you wont really need to run lfr but it will probably be faster than if you didnt.

Exactly, and it very fairly seems to cut the time down in half. I would certainly love to see the VP rolling that they failed at implementing with Conquest go in at some point as dinging 90 and then deciding to try to gear out the character a month or two later would be much more seamless and enjoyable with a VP cap of 4-8 thousand at that point. However as it is, it only takes about 2-3 lockouts to get into the 480 ilvl zone spending very little gold and getting 8+ elder charms (very very easy doing nothing but looting chests in the first room) from the solo scenario each week. If you want to do something other than just be eligible for the newest LFR you'll need to run through the actual older content. The same mechanic that was required to catch up through all of vanilla and most of Burning Crusade until Sunwell. To me it's a very good design albeit a bit frustrating when I have so much less time to play now.

[Ytlayol]

I agree with the OP. Just hit 90 myself and I am already annoyed with the grind to get caught up. This thread also needs that leonardo guy, gets real tiring reading the same old fanboy circlejerk crap about how awesome and perfect this expansion is.

[Deleted]

I agree with the OP. Just hit 90 myself and I am already annoyed with the grind to get caught up. This thread also needs that leonardo guy, gets real tiring reading the same old fanboy circlejerk crap about how awesome and perfect this expansion is.

Oh, I'm sorry, here's your two new troll HCs dropping you all the gear that you need. Have fun running those two for the next eight months because they made everything before it irrelevant. Yeah, those were good times.