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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    My viewpoint allows the other 97% of the casual playebase to experience all the content that WoW has to offer. Your opinion on the matter seeks to REMOVE the ability for the 97% casual base to see anything at all because it is not "the pinnacle of raiding perfection and gives the greatest reward". We just want to raid and should not have to grind 30+ hours a week and then join a hardcore guild and HOPE for a spot and then get removed because LIFE got in the way.

    We want to raid when we have the time. We want to experience the game at OUR pace... not yours. We want the right to get into a lessor raiding forum and experience the content in our own way... not the way some HARDCORE dictates. LFR was made for the people, it was a request of the people, and aside from an over abundance of gold bags, is exactly what the casuals wanted. And now you think it should be scrapped cause it "dilutes" YOUR idea of raid progression. We pay $15 a month to play too and do NOT have to do it on anyone else's terms but our own.

    PS - 25M Heroic has always been tailored to Heroic. You keep yours and we will keep ours.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-19 at 01:42 PM ----------



    That's good to know. Thanks
    Sure. Just don't think your doing the game any favors by asking it to cater to you. For perspective, in the 4 years WoW had a hardcore raiding model, it gained about 230,000 subscriptions per month and never had a losing quarter. Since the day it started catering to you, it has lost 3 million players and has had only one winning quarter in the last 2.5 years.

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  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    Sure. Just don't think your doing the game any favors by asking it to cater to you. For perspective, in the 4 years WoW had a hardcore raiding model, it gained about 230,000 subscriptions per month and never had a losing quarter. Since the day it started catering to you, it has lost 3 million players and has had only one winning quarter in the last 2.5 years.
    Oh look, it's the "correlation = causation" fallacy.

    Your inference is patently ludicrous, for reasons that have been explained time and time again.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    The hardcore players you mention there were living on a sinking island. Raids could not continue to be provided without a better ROI than catering to that tiny minority.

    The notion that the great majority of players would continue to play, just so the hardcores could feel smug at the top of their exclusive heap, never had any grounding in reality.
    Apparently you missed that little segment of reality from 2004 to 2008.

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  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    Sure. Just don't think your doing the game any favors by asking it to cater to you. For perspective, in the 4 years WoW had a hardcore raiding model, it gained about 230,000 subscriptions per month and never had a losing quarter. Since the day it started catering to you, it has lost 3 million players and has had only one winning quarter in the last 2.5 years.
    Oh maybe because - gasp - the game is 8 years old and there is a lot more competition these days? Could it be?
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  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Oh look, it's the "correlation = causation" fallacy.

    Your inference is patently ludicrous, for reasons that have been explained time and time again.
    Oh look its the "use red herring fallacy to claim another guy is using a fallacy," fallacy.

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  6. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    Apparently you missed that little segment of reality from 2004 to 2008.
    It was a segment of economical idiocy which culminated with strikingly beautiful but retarded instance called SWP aka "hey let's develop a lot of stuff no one will ever see at release, but heck...". At this point, even pengouins in Antarctica understood that the model of developing raid content for a tiny minority was no longer viable.
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  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    Oh maybe because - gasp - the game is 8 years old and there is a lot more competition these days? Could it be?
    It could be. Except the decline didn't start today, it started 4 years ago. Literally 1 month after the casuals got their wish with wotlk.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-19 at 04:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    It was a segment of economical idiocy which culminated with strikingly beautiful but retarded instance called SWP aka "hey let's develop a lot of stuff no one will ever see at release, but heck...". At this point, even pengouins in Antarctica understood that the model of developing raid content for a tiny minority was no longer viable.
    What exactly made it so clear that it wasn't viable? Was it the rabid fan base? Skyrocketing subs that showed no signs of slowing?

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  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    It could be. Except the decline didn't start today, it started 4 years ago. Literally 1 month after the casuals got their wish with wotlk.
    First tier of LK was messed up on several aspects, I'll give you that. The fact that there were no hardmodes hit a lot of people pretty hard. The situation, however, was stabilized and WoW never went below 11.5 Mil during LK. Until Blizzard listened to stupid forum whiners (and their inner nerdyness) and came up with idiotic stuff called 4.0 5-mans.
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  9. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    Sure. Just don't think your doing the game any favors by asking it to cater to you. For perspective, in the 4 years WoW had a hardcore raiding model, it gained about 230,000 subscriptions per month and never had a losing quarter. Since the day it started catering to you, it has lost 3 million players and has had only one winning quarter in the last 2.5 years.
    There are HUNDREDS of threads in the official Forums talking about LFR. Loot, spec locking, drop rate, gold bags, and MORE. Of ALL of those threads, none of them ever recommended just removing LFR cause it diluted the snowflake status for Hardcore raiders. Even the Elite Hardmode versions are not quite as Epic as 25M heroic. A feature that gives 97% of the remaining player base a chance to see content should not be removed just because it makes 3% feel less special. It may have lost 3M players, but the number of players today seeing current raid content vs Wrath or early Cata has more than doubled thanks to LFR.
    Last edited by -Superman-; 2013-03-19 at 09:20 PM.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    I would prefer to be on 5 man dungeons.
    Why people want to spend an entire expansion continuously farming/facerolling dungeons that were designed for people wearing blues I will never know. Oh yes, the THRILL of having to run all those dungeons again just to upgrade your ilevel by a few points. No wonder Cataclysm lost all those subs.

    No, LFR and actually experiencing the raids is a far superior way of keeping us non-raiders entertained.

    I couldn't be happier with the direction of MoP in terms of end game, and I'm a casual non-raider. There is simply loads to do. I hate spamming stupidly easy 5 man dungeons (which drop pre raiding blues) for justice points to buy Tier xx epic gear. Its an illogical and frankly stupid system.

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    Apparently you missed that little segment of reality from 2004 to 2008.
    Apparently you missed the enormous churn of non-hardcore players that WoW has experienced over the years. When the supply of new suckers for the ego ponzi scheme ended, the game was over.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Apparently you missed the enormous churn of non-hardcore players that WoW has experienced over the years. When the supply of new suckers for the ego ponzi scheme ended, the game was over.
    Oh no I didn't miss it. I've closely watched the casual experiment fail as quarter after quarter brings in more losses.

    *~To change one's life: Start immediately. Do it flamboyantly.~*

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    Exactly. If everyone has everything there is no thrill in trying to pursue the top.
    I have a thrill to puruse the top in every single game i played that had a very easy setting in it. I knew others were getting the exact same thing i had while playing in an easier difficulty, it never nothered me.

    It doesnt bother me either that other people are getting worse gear than me in WoW while playing in an easier difficulty.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    There are HUNDREDS of threads in the official Forums talking about LFR. Loot, spec locking, drop rate, gold bags, and MORE. Of ALL of those threads, none of them ever recommended just removing LFR cause it diluted the snowflake status for Hardcore raiders. Even the Elite Hardmode versions are not quite as Epic as 25M heroic. A feature that gives 97% of the remaining player base a chance to see content should not be removed just because it makes 3% feel less special. It may have lost 3M players, but the number of players today seeing current raid content vs Wrath or early Cata has more than doubled thanks to LFR.

    What do you think Activision cares about more, having everyone see raid content or having an extra $15 a month from 3 million people?

    *~To change one's life: Start immediately. Do it flamboyantly.~*

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    Oh no I didn't miss it. I've closely watched the casual experiment fail as quarter after quarter brings in more losses.
    I was talking about the churn during that earlier period, when WoW was growing in spite of the end game difficulty, not because of it.

    Let me spell it out, since you seem kind of slow: the growth in total subs was because of the great influx of fresh players, not because most of them found the hardcore endgame particularly attractive (most of them never even raided). If the endgame had been easier, the peak would likely have been even higher than it was.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by SherbertLand View Post

    That leads to being caught up in a few days time.
    Which is not a problem, its something good.

    Gating progression items is good, gating catch up items is stupid.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    You CAN get 476 epics with JP: just convert them to honor first and get the ilvl 476 PvP items.
    Keep in mind it isn't a 1:1 conversion though.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    Because the thrill of reaching that pinnacle is greatly reduced knowing that anyone who can push a que button is seeing the exact same thing. An extra couple stats on heroic gear doesn't do it for me.
    Then i am afraid i have to tell you that you dont play to reach the pinnacle of what the game has to offer like you think you do. You play to feel superior to other people and to show your e-peen, disregarding if you reach the pinnacle of what the game has to offer or not.

  19. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokii View Post
    they buffed drop rates in 5.0 LFR
    My new alts would like a word with you. I have 3 new 90s that went into their first MSV lfr to get geared all with 20 elder charms each. Out of all 6 boses x2 (with coins) I got zero pieces of gear on all 3 of the toons. Unlucky aren't I?

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    Sure. Just don't think your doing the game any favors by asking it to cater to you. For perspective, in the 4 years WoW had a hardcore raiding model, it gained about 230,000 subscriptions per month and never had a losing quarter. Since the day it started catering to you, it has lost 3 million players and has had only one winning quarter in the last 2.5 years.
    The same hardcore raiders have grown up, got jobs, married, and had kids. So unless you pretend that the players in WoW live in some kind of bubble your analysis is so far off it may as well be on Mars

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