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  1. #1

    ToT Trinket thread [PROT]

    So, Holy and Ret have these, I figured we needed one too.

    INB4 GHOST IRON DRAGONLING ALL THE THINGS

    Interested to see who is using what, when, and why. Also, specify 10/25, as it always is more differentiated at the start of the tier!

    Raiding 10 personally, and no luck on trinkets in the first clear. Currently using:
    Lei Shen's Final Orders
    and
    Lao-Chin's Liquid Courage

    Things that look interesting:
    Spark of Zandalar
    Fortitude of the Zandalari
    Ji-Kun's Rising Winds
    Soul Barrier
    Brutal Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault
    Steadfast Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault

    So that means, 1 haste trinket, 1 stamina trinket, and lots of accuracy options. I left out the crappy dodge trinket, but I suppose that it could be an option (though not a good one). The "traditional tank" options don't suffer from the RPPM plauge, since they are largely on-use, but the dodge is reactionary. The PVE-Battlemaster looks promising for those times where you may outrun your healers (like on Lei Shen moving between conduits). I guess I'm just ambivelent about setting up accuracy banks as trinkets, in the case that I'll swap them out for something else and be below cap. That, and I like having some meaty stamina chunks in those slots, although the Lei Shen trinket is pretty underwhelming; a 50-60k "shield" every 2 mins will certainly get lost in the wash much more than the 489 stam trinkets.

    Thoughts?
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  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire
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    The trinkets in this tier look really interesting to me. I am looking at focusing on getting Spark of Zandalar and Soul Barrier as I too would like to pair a stam and haste trinket.

  3. #3
    Mechagnome Lethora's Avatar
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    Soul Barrier feels underbugdet. I mean, it has roughly the same absorb as http://www.wowhead.com/item=68996 which is 144 itemlevels lower.
    Lethora, 90 Protection Paladin, Shadowsong-EU
    Amberglow, 90 Assassination Rogue, Shadowsong-EU
    Raiding 25man, 10hrs/week, 14/14H.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Scinder View Post
    The trinkets in this tier look really interesting to me. I am looking at focusing on getting Spark of Zandalar and Soul Barrier as I too would like to pair a stam and haste trinket.
    Agreed, as non-accuracy trinkets allow for more freedom in swapping in and out. However...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lethora View Post
    Soul Barrier feels underbugdet. I mean, it has roughly the same absorb as http://www.wowhead.com/item=68996 which is 144 itemlevels lower.
    This is sadly very true. The barrier has great stam, but the proc may as well not be there. I'm kinda digging the Fortitude trinket as another option, since Mastery is stellar for actual dmg redux, and the proc is nice. But we're gonna need some stam for fights like HC Mageara.

    It'd be nice if the proc's like the shield or the self-heals scaled somehow with Vengeance...
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Lethora View Post
    Soul Barrier feels underbugdet. I mean, it has roughly the same absorb as http://www.wowhead.com/item=68996 which is 144 itemlevels lower.
    This and the Colossus enchant are laughable. You get bigger hits in ICC.

  6. #6
    First off, we need to seperate the trinkets.

    For me, there is three areas of use.


    The dps and/or AM
    Hit/exp/haste trinkets and trinkets with STR etc.

    Mitigation Survivability trinkets
    Mastery trinkets

    Effective Health survivability trinkets, a.k.a. stamina trinkets

    First of, other than the trinkets you mentioned in the first post, here are the trinkets I feel that you missed.

    Primordius Talisman of Rage
    Bad Juju - Yes, extremely strange. Will comment on it later.
    Gaze of the Twins


    I will try to rank the trinkets as they fit in.

    Trinkets that are hard to place
    Ji-Kun's Rising Winds

    The expertise obviously makes it towards a dps+AM trinket, however the proc is very interesting, and I see this trinket having more use towards a mastery build with having the expertise reforged to mastery. So I would put this trinket rated quite nicely near mastery and DPS/AM builds. As said, the proc makes it an oddball so hard to compare with other trinkets. Very interesting trinket though


    Trinkets for DPS and AM purposes
    God tier:
    Spark of Zandalar - Great trinket. Haste + Strength proc, we like that. Works good for both AM and DPS.

    Demi-God Tier: - In no particular order
    First off, all of these trinkets could easily be as good if not better than the spark, the spark is just more reliable all round.

    Brutal Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault
    Great trinket overall. For me, it does not really matter, as I do not believe going under the expertise cap is the end of the world as most tanks do. (imo it doesn't even matter). But for most tanks, they do not wanna go under the expertise cap. And having a trinket with hit/exp locks you up really, so having this trinket would force you to wear it basically, which is never a good thing. I like having several trinkets being able to swap around, this trinket does not give me that choice. Other than that, just as good as the spark, just the lack of freedom that most tanks would feel with it.

    Ji-Kun's Rising Winds
    Same as above, expertise, some people don't like that. The proc is quite unique. Ofc provides less DPS than other trinkets so it is more of a niche trinket for some fights and setups. I like it more in a mastery build though.


    Primordius Talisman of Rage
    I would have liked to rank this trinket in the god tier, but as so many paladins have a blind for crit, I chose to have it here.
    It obviously provide almost no survivability, making it a pure dps trinket. Though its dps stats are very good and the benefit vs an expertise trinket of having choice. You can swap it out easily making it a great second trinket. Having the spark for main trinket and this trinket as a trinket being able to swap around when needed.

    Gaze of the Twins

    Exactly the same as above




    Onwards! To stamina trinkets!

    Soul Barrier

    Any discussion needed? Only stamina trinket so far. Maybe some PvP trinket will have stamina, will wait and see.

    Otherwise, trinkets from last tier.



    Survivability trinkets - Shit this boss is constantly pounding me to death, I want to survive!


    God tier:

    Fortitude of the Zandalari
    Just strictly the best survivability trinket. Both mastery and an extremely good use effect. Maximum health uses are my favorite uses on trinkets really. Loved the old battlemaster trinket in T14.


    Demi-God tier:

    Ghost Iron Dragonling-No Link
    If you can successfully fit hit, exp mastery into and reforge items so you don't overcap this is imo that second best trinket for survivability
    If you need to use exp, mastery, haste, it still works but the others is probably better for strict survivability.
    GID got that problem though with locking you down to a single trinket.
    That was not a problem last tier when GID was hands down the best trinket, but it is now as there are trinkets better than it.
    So if you feel comfortable with hit/exp on trinkets, fine, otherwise, you can reconsider.
    A very worthwhile investment for new players.

    Steadfast Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault

    Decent amount of mastery, useless proc. Nothing more to say really. Good mastery trinket but not the best.


    Bad Juju

    But ehrmahgehrd, fajhehrflajh33! It got agility on it! What are you thinking!
    Yes, it still got the exact same mastery as the steadfast talisman. x mastery + useless proc is just as good as x mastery + useless proc.
    This becomes a matter of availability. If the trinket drops and noone else need it, you can take it as a backup. Still, never take it before an agility user but keep it in mind if it drops. Better you have it than to disenchant it. This trinket is actually better than the steadfast talisman as the proc is slightly less useless.
    Think of the talisman as pre 5.2 dodge and the Bad Juju as 5.2 dodge.




    Personally, I am waiting for the PvP trinkets to make anything final, they usually show some great potential.
    Though, lets have...

    My personal shopping list

    Spark of Zandalar - Great all round trinket

    Fortitude of the Zandalari - Good to have a mastery trinket in hand

    Soul Barrier - I am a sheep, I like stamina.

    Primordius Talisman of Rage
    OR
    Gaze of the Twins - For that second dps trinket slot after spark.

    Ji-Kun's Rising Winds - The use intrigues me, but I feel it will fall short simply because of it having expertise on it. Though still want it to play around with. I am not expertise capped now so it would probably be very good for me.

    These are the trinkets I feel lets me have the absolutely best trinket combo on every boss fights.

    Includes:
    All round haste trinket
    Secondary pure DPS trinket
    One mastery trinket. Maybe I would like another one, but haven't felt the need yet for even one mastery trinket so doubt I will need two. Always have GID if I really really need a second mastery trinket.
    One stamina trinket.
    Rising Winds trinket, not even sure what to call it. A fun trinket to play around with?



    Firefly33's 5 cents, OUT!
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  7. #7
    Re: Bad Juju -- Last I checked, Plate tanks don't get dodge from agility anymore. Nerfed quite a while ago. A tiny bit of melee crit, that's all the agility portion provides to a paladin. It's a mastery trinket whose only noticeably secondary effect for a paladin is to launch gnome torpedoes. Granted, I could understand the draw of using it for just that reason...

    Also, the use effect on the Steadfast talisman is far from "useless." Your repeated use of the word goes beyond obvious hyperbole, so I assume you mean it. I know we bash avoidance in the post-MoP world, and rightly so. It's undertuned as well as unreliable without the ability to push normal hits off the combat table, but 16000 on-demand dodge rating (18.08% pre-DR dodge) on use with an average value of 8800 rating (9.94% pre-DR) during its uptime is going to have a far more noticeable effect on your survival than the horrible damage absorb effect on the Soul Barrier trinket. It just has to contribute to your dodging one melee attack during its effect.

    OT, but already brought up in this thread: As for the Colossus enchant, unless it was changed in 5.2, it's among the best weapon enchants for tankadin despite the low value of the bubble. It procs around 4 to 5 times a minute, giving it a greater absorb effect over the span of 2 minutes than the new ilvl-522 Soul Barrier's on-use effect, and it also soaks magic damage. The value of each bubble may be small, bit it adds up to hundreds of thousands of damage reduction in a typical boss fight.
    Last edited by Kaeth; 2013-03-12 at 04:56 PM.

  8. #8
    I was in no mean saying that the bad juju have a strong use effect. I just think that it is equally bad to the steadfast talisman.
    The juju also summons gnome warriors, remember that. Who do not want gnome warriors? Comon!

    That said, Steadfast talisman use is 100% useless on every single target boss fight. The only fight I can think it being of any use whatsoever is maybe like tanking bats on Tortos HC or something similar. Maybe on some of the gates on Horridon aswell. Though it would still be bad in these situations, just not entirely useless.

    8800 dodge rating average is really not that great after DR, and won't do you much good.

    That it is a use and not a proc is good though. Blizzard learned something. Still, only good when tanking like 6-7+ adds, and then, still mediocre.

    Though that you feel like Colossus is a strong enchant tells me that you are not really that into tanking theorycrafting.

    The basics of tanking survivability is simple.
    On a vast majority of the fights, we recieve a majority of the damage on a minority of the time.
    Basically, only like 5-15% of the fight are we actually taking damage that is remotely dangerous.

    The value of anything in terms of tanking over an entire fight is almost irrelevant, it holds very little weight compared to how much the value of the stat is on those short periods that we are actually taking damage. What does it matter if colossus absorbs hundreds of thousands of damage over a typical boss fight. 80% of that is wasted either way.

    This is why dodge and parry are completely useless.
    This is why proc trinkets as tanks are bad.
    This is why mastery is the best defensive stat on physical damage reduction
    This is why the tank meta gem is kinda weak.
    This is why SW is stronger than HA on most fights
    This is why everything else that revolves around tanking.

    It is kind off like comparing the Tier 1 Speed talents.
    You can't just do a simple -Speed increase / uptime- to say which talent is best.

    You gotta check the effective uptime. What do I care that PoJ gives me movement speed all the time if I barely need to move on a fight? If I can have SoJ up for 100% of the time that I actually have to move, than that is more than twice as strong as PoJ, not even a argument.

    Kinda the same here, damage mitigation, reduction, healing, absorbs, etc, is almost irrelevant for the most part of a fight, the stat that is best when we actually need them is the question.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Firefly33's 5 cents
    Chalk it up to blind hatred for crit or whatever, but I purposefully omitted the crit-based trinkets. I just don't value crit over...well...anything. If it drops, and nobody needs, I'll take it and use for Ret, but meh @ Prot uses. Specifically a BIG MEH to Gaze, since it ONLY proc's off of crits, greatly devaluing the only useful portion (STR proc) further. Plus, those trinkets are RPPM, which has been absolute shit so far this tier in terms of proc rates.

    Rest of what you said, I agree with (mostly cause it's what I said )

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaeth View Post
    Re: Bad Juju -- Last I checked, Plate tanks don't get dodge from agility anymore. Nerfed quite a while ago. A tiny bit of melee crit, that's all the agility portion provides to a paladin. It's a mastery trinket whose only noticeably secondary effect for a paladin is to launch gnome torpedoes. Granted, I could understand the draw of using it for just that reason...

    Also, the use effect on the Steadfast talisman is far from "useless." Your repeated use of the word goes beyond obvious hyperbole, so I assume you mean it. I know we bash avoidance in the post-MoP world, and rightly so. It's undertuned as well as unreliable without the ability to push normal hits off the combat table, but 16000 on-demand dodge rating (18.08% pre-DR dodge) on use with an average value of 8800 rating (9.94% pre-DR) during its uptime is going to have a far more noticeable effect on your survival than the horrible damage absorb effect on the Soul Barrier trinket. It just has to contribute to your dodging one melee attack during its effect.

    OT, but already brought up in this thread: As for the Colossus enchant, unless it was changed in 5.2, it's among the best weapon enchants for tankadin despite the low value of the bubble. It procs around 4 to 5 times a minute, giving it a greater absorb effect over the span of 2 minutes than the new ilvl-522 Soul Barrier's on-use effect, and it also soaks magic damage. The value of each bubble may be small, bit it adds up to hundreds of thousands of damage reduction in a typical boss fight.
    Agreed, I'm not sure that I'd ever use the gnome trinket other than for lulz, since even though dodge procs are "mostly useless" (in comparison to other options), agi procs are entirely useless (see previous gripe about crit). That said, I don't foresee myself using the Steadfast Talisman ever (on Pala), as I'd prefer to use the Brutal one if I had to pick. However, the shitty 75sec ICD really is a drawback there; 2/2 LSFO with its 45sec ICD and 1200 Haste is still better than the Expertise bank and long ICD str proc IMO.

    And, while I used to run Colossus, as I agree with your points about its value WRT TDR, the tank damage in last tier was so minimal that it really wasn't worth it. 12/12 normal mode and the only tight-butthole moments so far are on Magaera, so I'll stick with Dancing Steel, as I feel it helps complement the point of a haste build in 10M setting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Specifically a BIG MEH to Gaze, since it ONLY proc's off of crits, greatly devaluing the only useful portion (STR proc) further. Plus, those trinkets are RPPM, which has been absolute shit so far this tier in terms of proc rates..
    They implemented a hotfix a day or so ago improving all RPPM trinkets, the proc rate was to low before so it is higher now.

    Gaze = passive strength, proc crit.

    Though yeah, I honestly have no idea how the RPPM system works. Do we get less procs with the Gaze trinket because we have less crit, or is that normalized?

    I mean, I see no reason why to blindly hate crit.

    If you can survive a boss fight, the only other goal you have is to do more DPS. Crit does that for you. So if you are on a fight where tank damage is lolz no problemz, why not have some extra crit if possible?
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-03-12 at 05:17 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  11. #11
    Yeah I've heard of this mythical hotfix, but not seen any numbers or blue confirmation, so I didn't want to get too hype over it.

    USUALLY crit-based proc's don't account for low vs. high crit, they just have a higher %chance to proc off of a crit than a hit-based proc off of a hit. USUALLY, anyway. With all this new spec-based tuning for the meta gems and shit, I have no idea if that is still active/accurate.

    And, it's not a blind hate for crit, I just would rather put it into pretty much ANY other stat. Crit does give me big numbers, and I like that, it's certainly more visceral than an extra 0.08% mastery or 0.03% chance to parry something, but I just really enjoy being more stout than pushing for ranks. It's a stochastic, TDR mentality that is falling by the wayside these days, and I'm not suggesting it's correct, just explaining why I'd likely take a Dodge/Mastery piece over a Crit/Mastery piece. Just....feels dirty. Plus, given how terrible the loot RNG in 10M is with 20+ items on the loot table, that Crit/Mastery piece likely won't come around again, so I'll pass it to our DK or Ret. I get that it's hypothetical, but logistically speaking, that plays a role in why I value it low.

    Additionally, not that tank damage is a HUGE factor in the last tier, or in normals of this tier, but our heal comp is a disc priest, MW, and RSham. Me reducing damage further allows them to Atone/fistweave, which is far more raid DPS than my crit contributions. No, it's not like I can avoid crit and magically make them able to DPS instead of pure-heal, but I'm hoping you see the thought process here. Likewise, I like to/try to 1-tank when possible, which is far easier with a stout tank build than one focused on DPS, albeit only slightly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    I'd likely take a Dodge/Mastery piece over a Crit/Mastery piece. Just....feels dirty.
    But you like it dirty don't ya!

    But yeah, you can still get a crit/mastery piece by accident while using a coin for an item you do not need. Or maybe your dk or something is not there for a raid, not saying you should pick it up before them, but if you get the chance and it is better than what you have? Then why not?

    It is the same reason I used some agi and int gear last tier. It was better than the strength gear that I had and nobody else needed it.

    On the last point, while I agree with you if we are talking crit vs mastery, but not talking crit vs dodge/parry.
    Dodge parry will not allow your healers to dps more, as they do not know when you will dodge or parry. If you have more mastery you will take less damage, period, and will require less healing, but having more dodge and parry will not have that effect. You will take less damage, yes, but you will still require the same healing, also usually calls out for a more bursty and on the toes healing for the healers.


    Looked back a bit at how the gaze works. Man, it will be a beast on AoE tanking, like bats on tortos. You will pretty much permanently have 3 stacks up.

    That is like 8500 crit or something. Really really insane to be honest on multi target.


    Also, talking about 1 tanking, most challenges with 1 tanking comes from taking insane bursts of a spell because having to high stacks of something. Dodge/Parry don't really help on that, only stamina, armor(if physical), mastery(if physical) and proper CD usage helps on that.
    Having more 'traditional' tank build does not really make 1 tanking easier or harder for most fights.

    And I feel like one of the reasons to 1 tank is also so that the tank pull of insane dps numbers so it is almost like gaining 2 extra dpsers, which ofc dps stats help with.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-03-12 at 05:38 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  13. #13
    Aye, I won't AVOID the gear, as I'd certainly use it for my Ret spec if nothing else. I certainly won't shard it but like most drops, I'd give preference to my DPS raid mates, since I have yet to have trouble doing my job, while DPS is a much more critical role in terms of gear-checks.

    I...would definitely use a Crit piece before an Agi item (assuming you mean jewelry here) or Int plate, but again I typically just get gear slower, as it's not my main concern as a tank. Maybe it's close-minded, but again it just seems...wrong, thematically.

    And ye, I was referring to a crit/mast piece versus a dodge/mast piece (where crit or dodge would obv be reforged to haste); there is an almost negligible difference in terms of overall contribution from the secondary stats, but I, personally, opt for the "tankier" option. Obviously we can never count on D/P to be there, just as we can never count on a crit ability. Granted that a crit damage ability is never "wasted" unless it's overkill, but I'm sure you understand what I mean in terms of reliability. Mastery, and by proxy Haste, are really the only "reliable" tank stats. But this isn't news to either of us, and hopefully not most in here.

    Gaze could be OP in niche situations like that, but we don't know how things like HW or Cons work with RPPM, or at least I don't. I'd assume that AOE/meteor abilities have different rules than ST ones, to prevent RPPM cheesing of proc's, but I agree that it would make for a non-trivial portion of our DPS as a bat-tank, esp with the D/P contributions for GC AS. NANANANANANANANA BAT TANK.

    Anyway, enough side tracking of gear-talk that ISN'T trinkets.

    We need to start a "Buff Soul Barrier" petition, methinks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    If you can survive a boss fight, the only other goal you have is to do more DPS. Crit does that for you. So if you are on a fight where tank damage is lolz no problemz, why not have some extra crit if possible?
    Jumping in here. "Tank damage is lolz" I don't know how one would judge this.

    Besides my gut tells me tanking is not just about surviving big hits. To me tanking is about reducing the amount of incoming damage as much as possible to a point where the healer can almost ignore me and just heal the raid. Granted on fights like Garalon using dps stats are beneficial since we're just meat sticks there but that to me is an outlier compared to most other encounters.

    The point is that rarely would I wear a DPS item if it's a standard tanking fight so I see little value in ranking DPS trinks (barring the various control stat trinks).

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Fluffy kittens and ghost iron dragonlings
    Well, gaze procs synergizes well on AoE. Basically it can proc on every crit. The more spells you have and the more crit you, the more will it proc. Heard some dps talking about they basically having about 30-35% chance to proc it from EVERY crit. So basically critting 5-6 times within 20 seconds should ensure 100% uptime.

    I think Soul Barrier is fine. The use does its work, it already give a decent amount of stamina aswell.

    I mean, people talk about Colossus being good, that would make Soul Barrier godlike in comparison.
    Be glad it is not a dodge/parry proc.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-12 at 11:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Drummerboy View Post
    Jumping in here. "Tank damage is lolz" I don't know how one would judge this.

    Besides my gut tells me tanking is not just about surviving big hits. To me tanking is about reducing the amount of incoming damage as much as possible to a point where the healer can almost ignore me and just heal the raid. Granted on fights like Garalon using dps stats are beneficial since we're just meat sticks there but that to me is an outlier compared to most other encounters.

    The point is that rarely would I wear a DPS item if it's a standard tanking fight so I see little value in ranking DPS trinks (barring the various control stat trinks).
    The point is, on most bosses, in 10 man atleast, healers can almost ignore you between bosses casting their dangerous ability. You heal yourself up from the damage from regular auto attacks. I remember doing normal WotE and having basically 70% of the healing done on myself, my assigned healer only healed me during the titan gases.

    And yes while tanking is about reducing the additional incoming damage. Dodge or parry will not help you with that, the healers are still healing you.

    If the damage is low, a dodge/parry only equals to overhealing
    If the damage is high, you are likely to die if you rely to much on dodges/parries, and will only cause a lot of overhealing.

    I would take crit over those stats any day. I do not argue that I rather have Hit, Mastery, Haste or Expertise, but I do not treat Crit like shit, crit in my opinion is far more benefitial than dodge or parry and should not be ignored. Having it on an item is not that bad. You can just reforge it away.

    Garalon is an example of a fight where dps stats are bad. You have no vengeance, dps stats scale with vengeance.


    So yeah, basically what I am saying is not that you should aim for crit. Though I am implying that for fights that do not have 10+ mobs on you permantenly.

    Survivability: Hit>Exp 7.5%>Mastery>Exp15%>Haste>Crit Stamina is high up in there depending on fight mechancis
    Dps: Hit>Exp>Haste>Crit
    Advised gearing: Hit>Exp>Haste>Mastery>Crit
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  16. #16
    I think our DPS warriors would kill me if I rolled Primordius away from them.
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  17. #17
    Honestly surprised no one has even considered Talisman of Bloodlust specially you firefly. I know you're not fond of proc trinkets, neither am I, but with RPPM, and how it scales with haste as well as the fix to make the procs more consistent means this trinket would have a fairly large up time with the benefit of a stacking haste buff which would in turn provide more RPPM and consistent high stacks.

    Of course the added downside is that this trinket could provide too much haste and get us over the 50% haste mark quite consistently which would mess with rotations slighty.

    Either way so far I'm looking at rocking Spark and Talisman of Bloodlust, when I actually get my hands on one I'll test it out and post back here or in the Prot Pala guide and tell you all what sort of results I'm able to get from it.

  18. #18
    Well yeah, I saw that one but my issuse was pretty much what you said. Overcapping haste and I have no idea how the RPPM system works really so I do not really know how the uptime would work. Could be a viable option but putting up a trinket with passive agility in this thread is like putting up your own death sentence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    I think our DPS warriors would kill me if I rolled Primordius away from them.
    Just make sure you have CDs rolling and you should be fine.
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    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  19. #19
    Field Marshal Setokaiba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDreads View Post
    Honestly surprised no one has even considered Talisman of Bloodlust specially you firefly. I know you're not fond of proc trinkets, neither am I, but with RPPM, and how it scales with haste as well as the fix to make the procs more consistent means this trinket would have a fairly large up time with the benefit of a stacking haste buff which would in turn provide more RPPM and consistent high stacks.

    Of course the added downside is that this trinket could provide too much haste and get us over the 50% haste mark quite consistently which would mess with rotations slighty.

    Either way so far I'm looking at rocking Spark and Talisman of Bloodlust, when I actually get my hands on one I'll test it out and post back here or in the Prot Pala guide and tell you all what sort of results I'm able to get from it.
    Did you get a chance to test it yet?
    Looks quite tasty.

    If we can get even 2+ stacks rolling most of the time, probably worth reforging haste into mastery, which would give even more AM!

  20. #20
    Bloodsail Admiral Galm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDreads View Post
    Honestly surprised no one has even considered Talisman of Bloodlust specially you firefly. I know you're not fond of proc trinkets, neither am I, but with RPPM, and how it scales with haste as well as the fix to make the procs more consistent means this trinket would have a fairly large up time with the benefit of a stacking haste buff which would in turn provide more RPPM and consistent high stacks.

    Of course the added downside is that this trinket could provide too much haste and get us over the 50% haste mark quite consistently which would mess with rotations slighty.

    Either way so far I'm looking at rocking Spark and Talisman of Bloodlust, when I actually get my hands on one I'll test it out and post back here or in the Prot Pala guide and tell you all what sort of results I'm able to get from it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keltuzed View Post
    Did you get a chance to test it yet?
    Looks quite tasty.

    If we can get even 2+ stacks rolling most of the time, probably worth reforging haste into mastery, which would give even more AM!
    This seems really interesting. I'd definitely like to hear the outcome.

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