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  1. #321
    High Overlord Liveet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    Then again your groups damage seems kinda low overall..

    Am liking the 16% hit you're sporting though.
    Just put on the neck. Didn´t have time to reforge

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-15 at 09:07 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    Then again your groups damage seems kinda low overall..

    Am liking the 16% hit you're sporting though.
    Link a group that is high then btw. I would love to see if my dps wouldn´t be competitive there.

  2. #322
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoolKidKaos View Post
    I personally love the bomb change, I really saw the difference on Horridon and Council

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...1&e=2597#Chaos
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...4&e=4024#Chaos

    But, I do hate it at the same time, being forced to multi dot on fights like some glorified spriest is demeaning.
    After they just got done telling us we're a "turret", too.

    I don't know what the fuck I'm supposed to be now and it's really aggravating. Hopefully, the devs also see this, and will give us a nice revamp in 6.0.

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  3. #323
    There is a certain feeling of keeping us ticking over now until we can get some serious work. Hopefully you're right and that'll be in 6.0, but given prior track record I wouldn't hold my breath. DPS currently is in a better place, there are some fights I can top (Ji-Kun, possibly some others), some I'll be middle-top (vast majority) and others that I'll suck at (hi Tortos), but generally that's how we and everyone else should be. Anyone that doesn't fall into that model is an outlier that will need buffing/nerfing accordingly.

    First experience of Lei Shen yesterday due to guild issues meaning 2 cancelled raids last reset. Interesting fight, not the best design for mage dps but not terrible either. Logs here: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=12904&e=13434

  4. #324
    Yesterday at Jin´rokh I could increase my dps at about 6% with Frost spec (Rank 42 yesterday)

    worldoflogs.com/reports/vs7kiz8wpnmgdlo0/sum/damageDone/?s=1319&e=1581#Trîvîal

    Think its quite ok, but I would prefer to play fire with a good flow.

    Encounter gameplay with adds feelin quite strange (imo mage should not be THE multidotting class).

  5. #325
    When blizzard favortism rings it rings true, i am now a mage that will be rolling against you on loot blame blizz not me

  6. #326
    Brewmaster Methusula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oopsmezedya View Post
    When blizzard favortism rings it rings true, i am now a mage that will be rolling against you on loot blame blizz not me
    I'd love to hear your rationale for this post...

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by pmdawnie View Post
    We are at the middle of the pack, you're just playing the wrong spec. I know you love it, and will probably never change, but that's the gist of it.
    So 'we' are at the middle of the pack as in - you are in the middle of the pack. Of course.

  8. #328
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    After they just got done telling us we're a "turret", too.

    I don't know what the fuck I'm supposed to be now and it's really aggravating. Hopefully, the devs also see this, and will give us a nice revamp in 6.0.
    I read all your posts.

    You stress way, way too hard over the mage class. We're incredible right now, despite our design flaws. Just don't let the flaws get in the way.

    You're part of a group of people in the community, regardless of class, that wants one specific path to success to be spelled out clearly. Whenever there's a degree of fog or uncertainty, or choice, you become upset.

    Look at the parses for Frost, Fire, and Arcane, there are successful mages all very near each other. No spec has a clear lead, so play what works for you.

    Also expect a nerf to NT to come at some point.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-15 at 12:22 PM ----------

    Here's an example of some charts I plotted for my raid group after we wiped on Iron Qon and I decided I was frustrated at the fact that the frost mage and I were top DPS every attempt. Even though I think mages are great, Leviatron and I shouldn't have been 20-30k ahead of the rest of the raid.

    People fail miserably at understanding raidbots, so I decided to do some charts of my own. Iron Qon is the best possible fight I can think of to analyze because it's a series of single target DPS checks. I've never seen numbers be so balanced (apart from Assassination Rogues, wtf?)



    My theory, based off data I examine, is that the mage class is incredible, but a majority of mages are confused, lost, or just aren't sure what the important priorities in our DPS methodology are. I also think we (as well as some other specs) rely too much on procs, which means bad RNG or badly timed machine gunning results in poor performance and a perception of us being middle of the pack when we're one of the top potential DPS.

  9. #329
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    Something to remember is that we all don't have 510+ gear. Also player skill is often very hard to judge but its still a very important factor.

    If we all had the same gear and the rest of our team were ai's who could perform the same every time and there was no rng in fights then we could actually compare things properly. The only reason I think we use sims is because there's no way to reliably get numbers from the real game.

    I also stand by what I said earlier. I think your just too good at playing a mage.
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  10. #330
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmzac View Post
    Something to remember is that we all don't have 510+ gear. Also player skill is often very hard to judge but its still a very important factor.

    If we all had the same gear and the rest of our team were ai's who could perform the same every time and there was no rng in fights then we could actually compare things properly. The only reason I think we use sims is because there's no way to reliably get numbers from the real game.

    I also stand by what I said earlier. I think your just too good at playing a mage.
    That's a reasonable complaint. Mage might be too hard to play for the average player? I just don't know. I can't be the one to make that point.

    I wish I could take credit for being "good" - but honestly it's TellMeWhen that I owe all my DPS to. Without that addon I'd be sunk, and I mean sunk.

    I really, really mean that. Here I just took a SS of what my TMW looks like. On the left is everything that helps my DPS. On the right are fight-based things or ICDs/important stuff that I want to know (Lei Shi, Primordius, etc.)

    We make so many snap judgment calls as frost in particular that having that stuff is so, so so helpful. You can't see it because it's in config mode, but I have transparency set so in combat it's not murder on the eyes:



    What helps me a lot on Horridon, in particular, is on the right you'll see the Frostbolt icon. That's so that I can see the 3x Frostbolt debuff on the boss, while I still switch and help adds. So I do the fight properly yet I make sure NEVER to lose my rampup, that's one of the most detrimental things that can happen to us, and I hate rampup so much. If I could change just one thing about our class it'd be that stupid frostbolt debuff.


    PS: I hide in the eye socket of that bone waiting for Oondasta to spawn :P

  11. #331
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    -snip-
    I do something very similar with WeakAuras, if I'm honest. I rely quite heavily on it but oh well, there you go.

    http://i.imgur.com/FOJoh7i.jpg

    I just base all my specific auras around my castbars so it's very easy to track everything.

  12. #332
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    It's one thing to track those things and another to use them well. I track them but I don't really pay any attention to them apart from invoker's energy.

    Not all of us have rogues/warriors using banner/tricks when we can use it most :P

    Tracking the frostbolt debuff is one of those things that's much more useful in 25man. Just comparing our horridon logs you had 88% of your damage against horridon where I had 60%. You help on adds but you still spend a lot of time on the boss.

    I was really annoyed when they reverted the frostbolt change on the ptr. It was a good change that helped fix the stupid ramp up time. I don't thing any pve frost mage could possibly like it because it's just so damn annoying.
    Last edited by jtmzac; 2013-03-15 at 05:13 PM.
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  13. #333
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Eh I don't always get tricks, and our warriors are greedy and dumb with skull banner. I'm seriously not in a top guild we're only 9/12 with Iron Qon nearly dead at berserk each pull.

    But the point is that I have the TMW set up to let me know when they are up so that I take advantage of them

  14. #334
    Thanks to those of you posting UIs. I plan on doing a good deal of fiddling when I get home.

    Although I'm sure it seems self-explanatory, watching your procs, knowing the raid mechanics (especially for timing IW uptime--still working on this, as I sometimes miscalculate when damage is coming in), and accumulating gear really can put us in a good spot. By way of example, last night I was able to rank 27th Frost on Iron Qon 25 and 47th on Twins (a fight I'd never done before), all with a 504 weapon (508 ilvl overall). This gives me hope that with a 522 (or, fingers crossed, 528 or higher) ilvl weapon--combined with the things I mentioned above--things really can and will improve.

    Last night was the first night I regained confidence in my DPS, and some others in my raid noticed the improvement, as well.

    [I'd post links to the logs, but I'm not allowed to yet.]

  15. #335
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    Eh I don't always get tricks, and our warriors are greedy and dumb with skull banner. I'm seriously not in a top guild we're only 9/12 with Iron Qon nearly dead at berserk each pull.

    But the point is that I have the TMW set up to let me know when they are up so that I take advantage of them
    Iron Qon is hard on 25N was slightly overtuned and rightly nerfed. I think the only fight that compares on 25M is Lei Shen and that's purely raid coordination whereas Iron Qon is more output-related.

  16. #336
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    I'm still not sure how you actually take advantage of things like tricks/banner and trinkets.

    We use everything on cd and unless you know ahead of time that its going to happen you can't save procs.

    Is it because you have the option in 25 to ignore mechanics and focus the main target while such procs are up?
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  17. #337
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmzac View Post
    I'm still not sure how you actually take advantage of things like tricks/banner and trinkets.

    We use everything on cd and unless you know ahead of time that its going to happen you can't save procs.

    Is it because you have the option in 25 to ignore mechanics and focus the main target while such procs are up?
    Snapshots to refresh NT.

    FoF hold 1 charge to wait for a proc. That's why it's a 2 proc system.

    And yes, sometimes if I get amazing proc luck and yell at a paladin to HoP me - that's why cooldowns exist, no? Also sometimes I hold onto a frozen orb if I know I'm overdue for a trinket proc.

    And the biggest thing, more than anything, Alter Time. Alter Time, Alter Time, Alter Time. Seriously, Alter Time. Don't Alter Time based off FoF or BF, Alter Time based off Icy Veins + Trinkets + Pre-Pot/2nd Pot + etc.

  18. #338
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    I forget that NT isn't dynamic since I still don't use it. I'll swap to it eventually...

    I only track when trinkets are up not their ICD. I'm guessing rppm is just going to make it even harder to try and predict?

    The stuff about alter time I knew. I'm still trying to get into the habit of building procs before it comes off cd so I get at least some in alter time.
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  19. #339
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmzac View Post
    I forget that NT isn't dynamic since I still don't use it. I'll swap to it eventually...

    I only track when trinkets are up not their ICD. I'm guessing rppm is just going to make it even harder to try and predict?

    The stuff about alter time I knew. I'm still trying to get into the habit of building procs before it comes off cd so I get at least some in alter time.
    Pretty sure no DoTs in the game are currently dynamic. They are all snapshot upon application.

  20. #340
    This is what I use to watch my frost procs....
    Using a certain sound when my Frost Bomb comes back up, or when NT/LB end. I also use specific sounds for each when Invocation ends, and when Brain Freeze/FoF procs


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