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  1. #221
    High Overlord Leyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnesium View Post
    yup thats on a boss with massve damage increase taken which REALLY benefits fire. Massive ignites mean crazy big combustions. Thats to do with scaling more than anything else and a reason why fire will be nerfed later on.

    edit: the guy above you was talking about 5.1 for some reason and i was replying to that....

    AND you set it to top 100 parses only. Change it to all parses which is more indicative of the class as a whole.

    sorry what? http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...14/60/default/
    Honestly, top 100 means something: people that know how to play their class very well. I don't know about you but I take professional skill as the highest opinion; not a lackluster underperforming player. The nerf was heavy handed, out of control, and now that I look more closely at Affliction and Demo, I don't think they will even scale well into T15H gear. SimCraft is a mess, and not even accurate. Looking at World of Logs, I see after the 13th of March warlocks are doing very poorly now as Aff and Destro has begun showing up much more. Mages didn't need a buff, they would have sat with Warlocks just fine prior to their handout. Now, they are incongruous to the pie, scale better, and do more aoe AND single target with all three specs with little effort.

    This is more of the same though. They did this in TBC, WOTLK, Cata, and here we are in MoP. Warlocks make a strong showing: fuck that nerf them into oblivion. Mages cry for two seconds: Give them free beer, hookers, and one button specs across the board. Same shit, different year, lol. I hate predictability.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnesium View Post
    And talking about whine, there is a lot of it in this thread.....
    Let's not talk about whining when refering to people complaining or turn this into a Mage vs Warlock flamefest. Comparing classes is fine in this case but stick to facts and not personal remarks.
    Your Soul Shall Suffer! ||| Forum rules ||| New England Patriots

  3. #223
    Like everything blizzard does is ham fisted. it's not like mages haven't got stupid nerfs in the past. If you honestly think mages didnt need a small buff and have way better aoe than locks then there is no hope.

  4. #224
    High Overlord Leyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnesium View Post
    Like everything blizzard does is ham fisted. it's not like mages haven't got stupid nerfs in the past. If you honestly think mages didnt need a small buff and have way better aoe than locks then there is no hope.
    Small doesn't mean buffing every spec across the board, aoe, single target, and a bag of free kittens, heh. Maybe locks did need a slight aoe nerf, but yeah, I still stand by my statement. They are repeating history ad infinity.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnesium View Post
    Like everything blizzard does is ham fisted. it's not like mages haven't got stupid nerfs in the past. If you honestly think mages didnt need a small buff and have way better aoe than locks then there is no hope.

    They did need a small buff. They didn't need to become better than Demonology at multi-dotting and single target. That's just foolish.

    http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Horri...00000000000000

    Horridon. Hotfix was March 13th. Look at the dip from March 12th to March 14th. Look at the jump Frost and Fire took. The nerf hit Demonology so hard that it dropped them to the point Fire was at 2 days earlier. How is it logical to buff one class because they're underpowered and nerf another class to that exact same level? Also keep in mind that that's 2 more days worth of gear that Demonology had over Fire. Please explain how that's fair rather than making broad spectrum general statements about Mage vs Warlock.
    Last edited by Teye; 2013-03-15 at 03:44 PM.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnesium View Post
    Like everything blizzard does is ham fisted. it's not like mages haven't got stupid nerfs in the past. If you honestly think mages didnt need a small buff and have way better aoe than locks then there is no hope.
    Since my preferential arena spec of season 13 just got obliterated and the current reigning caster overlord class even got buffed can you please leave this forum and talk about mage issues where it is appropriate?

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    They did need a small buff. They didn't need to become better than Demonology at multi-dotting and single target. That's just foolish.

    http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Horri...00000000000000

    Horridon. Hotfix was March 13th. Look at the dip from March 12th to March 14th. Look at the jump Frost and Fire took. The nerf hit Demonology so hard that it dropped them to the point Fire was at 2 days earlier. How is it logical to buff one class because they're underpowered and nerf another class to that exact same level? Also keep in mind that that's 2 more days worth of gear that Demonology had over Fire. Please explain how that's fair rather than making broad spectrum general statements about Mage vs Warlock.
    Like I said ham fisted and nothing blizzard do with class balance is logical. I've learnt to live with it. You failed to show affliction and destro on this fight though. still ahead of mage. You want all 3 specs better than mage? There all 3 mage specs and all 3 lock specs on that fight: http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Horri...00000000000000
    Last edited by Magnesium; 2013-03-15 at 03:57 PM.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnesium View Post
    Like I said ham fisted and nothing blizzard do with class balance is logical. I've learnt to live with it. You failed to show affliction and destro on this fight though. still ahead of mage. You want all 3 specs better than mage? There all 3 mage specs and all 3 lock specs on that fight: http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Horri...00000000000000

    No, I want Demonology to be compensated with a small single target buff. Demonology just spent all of last tier in near obscurity and was buffed when 5.2 came out for a reason.

    You're missing the point so hard. I don't give a damn about Aff or Destro. I'm talking about Demonology and you keep changing the subject.

  9. #229
    I can sense this thread derailing and going on the brink of a flamefest. Not good.
    As a warlock AND mage player(and priest, but that's irrelevant) and theorycrafter, I can say with absolute certainty that mages needed a buff and warlocks deserved a purely multi-dotting nerf. However, I also believe the numbers were stupidly excessive, especially in the case of Demonology(Affliction is still doing well, since Corruption was it's weakest DoT to begin with). Corruption and Doom made up 20%-ish of Demonology's damage, and their common 25% nerf means a 5% single target nerf to Demo that is in no way justifiable by anyone who knows how numbers work. Worse, we predicted that Demo's multidotting might be problematic when they shifted the Meta autoattack damage to Doom and they ignored that feedback completely. Now they finally realize we were right and sompletely gut the two spells rather than shifting the damage where it should have been from the start: Soul Fire(Shadow Bolt/Touch of Chaos could be problematic in PvP). This just serves to show that the developpers truly have no clue how to do their job properly, as this is something that can be worked out by a simpleton. The same thing can be said for the SW:P nerf for priests. I honestly have lost a fair bit of the respect I had for the dev team after this constant display of ineptitude, especially after they systematically ignore feedback(I have been giving feedback directly to Ghostcrawler via twitter nearly every day, without any response or aknowledgement of the issue).

    Anyhow, let's just stop this futile lock vs mage favoritism thing. It isn't bringing us anywhere.

  10. #230
    THE point im making is that you have more than competative specs available to you. It would be great if they made all specs super balanced but its not going to happen. I'm sick of having to change spec as well because of crazy hotfixes but ive learnt to deal with it. 5.0 fire was great then got gutted. 5.1 arcane was buffed (way too much) and then got gutted. Now Frost is top till you get gear again for fire which I KNOW will get nerfed again at some point due to scaling.

    Now matter how much blizz say you can play what you want its just not true if you want to compete on dps.... and yes i agree how they handled the nerf was stupid hurting the wrong spec.

  11. #231
    Epic! Skayth's Avatar
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    Well, there goes my demo multi dotting, that I used to get down horridon and council with. =.= back to single destro multi destro aoe destro.

  12. #232
    I just don't get it, using 5.2.2 version of simcraft i was simming 128k as affliction and now with the current version of simcraft i'm doing 122k, i really can't understand blizzard they want us so hard to play destro because of their "green fire quest". I've been an aff lock since wotlk and always played it as main or off spec, 6k dps loss is big and i'm really thinking after 4 years to reroll.
    Last edited by Hangrah; 2013-03-15 at 04:46 PM.

  13. #233
    All I know is that since Mysts dropped I've been top damage in my raid comp, even after 5.2 I was still top damage until this nerf. Granted I play my class quite well, but Affliction is not the most complicated spec to play and the other players in my guild are about equally skilled in their respective class. However, as soon as they ninja nerfed Corruption my DPS dropped by around 5k - 10k and I plummeted to the bottum of the meters. No-matter how flawlessly I perform my rotation nor how great my RNG is, I can't beat anyone in my raid anymore, period.

    EXCEPT ON MULTI-DOTTING FIGHTS WOW GG BLIZZARD!

    I can't believe this crap but I guess now I know what it's like to play this game, I've never played a class long enough to experience the buff-nerf rollercoaster like this but I'm honestly really put off.
    It is better to have raided and wiped, then to never have raided at all.

  14. #234
    Keyboard Turner Muhney's Avatar
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    I understand the comparison of Mages and Locks…it will always happen. I spent some time re-reading this entire forum, and it was Docmort that really hit it for me:
    Here's what I don't get: you have this cool thing called PTR to test major changes and tune the numbers BEFORE applying them to the live game. Unlike what we saw happen with pvp, there is a plethora of raid data to be mined to base your tuning around. So why is exactly is Blizz dropping a whopper of nerfs/buffs seemingly with arbitrarily inflated numbers a mere week after the changes that should have been comprehensively tested have gone live, well after their ability to test how such a big tuning would affect us before implementing it?

    Man did the lights go off on this, and what an excellent question (golf clap to Docmort) by the random chance that someone from Bli$$ard is actually reading these posts. Just what exactly is their test environment? Is the PTR just a ‘feed the masses’ scenario to placate the number crunchers, the SimCrafters, the add-on gurus?

    Bli$$ards success is in the Data Mining that they have accumulated over the years. The amount of data that Bli$$ard has on every class every scenario is astounding, that is literally how things are developed. I should say in a ‘real world’ scenario, you would pound the heck out of your test environment, and ensure every item is balanced before you go to release. The only exception to this would be Microsoft but that is a separate horror story.

    I believe the true question for all of this is what the heck is Bli$$ard doing on the PTR and why isn't this identified prior to release? Now I beg the developers to answer that, I would love to see the PMP mumbo jumbo.

    Peace

  15. #235
    Last night doing ji kun and some other bosses in TOT a fellow lock was demo, and all i can say is wow, demo got hit HARD with these nerfs. i couldnt believe it, back to destro he went.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Muhney View Post
    I understand the comparison of Mages and Locks…it will always happen. I spent some time re-reading this entire forum, and it was Docmort that really hit it for me:
    Here's what I don't get: you have this cool thing called PTR to test major changes and tune the numbers BEFORE applying them to the live game. Unlike what we saw happen with pvp, there is a plethora of raid data to be mined to base your tuning around. So why is exactly is Blizz dropping a whopper of nerfs/buffs seemingly with arbitrarily inflated numbers a mere week after the changes that should have been comprehensively tested have gone live, well after their ability to test how such a big tuning would affect us before implementing it?

    Man did the lights go off on this, and what an excellent question (golf clap to Docmort) by the random chance that someone from Bli$$ard is actually reading these posts. Just what exactly is their test environment? Is the PTR just a ‘feed the masses’ scenario to placate the number crunchers, the SimCrafters, the add-on gurus?

    Bli$$ards success is in the Data Mining that they have accumulated over the years. The amount of data that Bli$$ard has on every class every scenario is astounding, that is literally how things are developed. I should say in a ‘real world’ scenario, you would pound the heck out of your test environment, and ensure every item is balanced before you go to release. The only exception to this would be Microsoft but that is a separate horror story.

    I believe the true question for all of this is what the heck is Bli$$ard doing on the PTR and why isn't this identified prior to release? Now I beg the developers to answer that, I would love to see the PMP mumbo jumbo.

    Peace
    For one, people participating on PTR represent only a fraction of the total number of players. I could understand them taking the data a bit less seriously in that case. Still doesn't change the fact that they have their own internal testing tools, plus the feedback of theorycrafters. Seems like they are ignoring both and doing random kneejerk hotfixes instead.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Xandy View Post
    All I know is that since Mysts dropped I've been top damage in my raid comp, even after 5.2 I was still top damage until this nerf. Granted I play my class quite well, but Affliction is not the most complicated spec to play and the other players in my guild are about equally skilled in their respective class. However, as soon as they ninja nerfed Corruption my DPS dropped by around 5k - 10k and I plummeted to the bottum of the meters. No-matter how flawlessly I perform my rotation nor how great my RNG is, I can't beat anyone in my raid anymore, period.

    EXCEPT ON MULTI-DOTTING FIGHTS WOW GG BLIZZARD!

    I can't believe this crap but I guess now I know what it's like to play this game, I've never played a class long enough to experience the buff-nerf rollercoaster like this but I'm honestly really put off.
    I want to see your logs jumping from #1 to dead end >.> Must be a hell of good DPSers when every DD was within 5-10k DPS range :P

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnesium View Post
    Like everything blizzard does is ham fisted. it's not like mages haven't got stupid nerfs in the past. If you honestly think mages didnt need a small buff and have way better aoe than locks then there is no hope.
    So what you're basically saying is that mages should have better single-target/aoe dps than warlocks... seriously dude? Are warlocks supposed to only bring free health cookies and summons to raid only?

  19. #239
    no thats not what im saying at all... locks have better dps when moving and much better aoe thus mages need better stand still dps to compete in moments when they can stand still and cast. Do you not see that? locks did need a multi dot aoe nerf. the nerfs hurt demo quite bad so im sure they will compensate for that. Your other two specs are still good though.

  20. #240
    Keyboard Turner Muhney's Avatar
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    Shahad excellent point, makes one wonder, what exactly those " internal testing tools are and if they are on"

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