Warlock Nerfs - 3/12/13

**MordorFires** · 2013-03-17, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by Dumble

Actually I think Affli AoE is easier to manage than Destro AoE.

For Affli it's SB:SoC -> Tab target SoC till Corr needs refreshing on everything.
For Destro there's FnB:Immo, FnB:Conflag, FnB:Incin + keeping RoF rolling. Granted you dont use all 3 FnB's as a lot of AoE packs dont last *that* long, but still. Not to mention all the things you can do with havoc Sburn cleaving from dying aoe adds to a main boss and such.

But that's the thing. Most mobs don't last too long. So it's just put up RoF, FnB Immo, FnB Conflag, FnB Incin, RoF. I should also say, you can just keep one mob targeted for this. SoC isn't instant, you have to put SB:SoC and detonate it, then tab target and hope you don't tab to one you've already hit. With 1.5s+ cast time with typical haste levels, this takes a long time, in my opinion.

Aff AoE just feels clunky, and I guess you could say the nerf to Corruption really did it in for me. I can't see myself going Aff again on a fight that requires too much mass AoE, not when Demo and Destro feel smoother to perform that with.

And Havoc is like a fun perk! See that last mob sub-20%? Mouseover boss Havoc, SBURN FTW!

As for the gateway bug, it's obviously unintended and I'm sure it's been brought to their attention and they're (hopefully) working on a fix.

**Dumble** · 2013-03-17, 01:07 AM

Aye the Corruption nerf hit Affli's sustained AoE quite hard

Ah well, at least Destro is a very viable alternative!

**spookyy** · 2013-03-17, 02:21 PM

So I've been gone for a week while the nerf bat hit us right in the face and even though you guys talk a lot, I can't quite get the information I want out of this discussion.

1. Is destruction the most viable spec right now? Is it the best dps spec to go with, or is simc not working correctly and doesn't calculate correctly?

2. Should we still go with 2 specs, since destro seems to be best at T14H gear and single target dps, while affliction still outperforms (I guess?) the other specs when it comes to multi doting, which is used in almost every fight in ToT. Destro/Affli maybe?

3. If the answer to 2. is yes, then is it even possible to play affli/destro at their maximums, since the stat priority isn't exactly the same?

I don't know if it's just me, but I'm pretty sure, that many other ppl would prefer some clarity.

**xskarma** · 2013-03-17, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by spookyy

So I've been gone for a week while the nerf bat hit us right in the face and even though you guys talk a lot, I can't quite get the information I want out of this discussion.

1. Is destruction the most viable spec right now? Is it the best dps spec to go with, or is simc not working correctly and doesn't calculate correctly?

2. Should we still go with 2 specs, since destro seems to be best at T14H gear and single target dps, while affliction still outperforms (I guess?) the other specs when it comes to multi doting, which is used in almost every fight in ToT. Destro/Affli maybe?

3. If the answer to 2. is yes, then is it even possible to play affli/destro at their maximums, since the stat priority isn't exactly the same?

I don't know if it's just me, but I'm pretty sure, that many other ppl would prefer some clarity.

In theory Destro is best in everything in our current gear. In practice however all 3 specs do fine with the fight tactics and have thier strong fights. I just read in another thread Evrelia was Affliction for 6 fights, Destro for 1 and Demo for 1 in heroic progression. It's simply a question of you deciding which spec you prefer and can make work best and then rolling with those.

About the reforging, well Aff/Destro is going to be problematic, Destro likes crit usually, Aff doesn't. Destro even has different stats for different fights, depending on what you are trying to do. You need to decide which spec you will play more and go off those reforges first, seems to me.

**spookyy** · 2013-03-17, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by xskarma

In theory Destro is best in everything in our current gear. In practice however all 3 specs do fine with the fight tactics and have thier strong fights. I just read in another thread Evrelia was Affliction for 6 fights, Destro for 1 and Demo for 1 in heroic progression. It's simply a question of you deciding which spec you prefer and can make work best and then rolling with those.

About the reforging, well Aff/Destro is going to be problematic, Destro likes crit usually, Aff doesn't. Destro even has different stats for different fights, depending on what you are trying to do. You need to decide which spec you will play more and go off those reforges first, seems to me.

So what would your recommendation be? I'm not in a #100 guild, but we're a progression raid guild and #1 on our realm. Would it make sense to just stay with affliction, since there are only 1-2 real single target fights? Especially since Affli is going to get incredibly strong once you get the legendary meta gem and the better your gear gets.
Problem is to figure out when that tipping point is reached and when it's time to go affli again.
I hate situations like that. I simply don't feel like reforging for every single fight. I don't mind changing my spec, but I just hate reforging.

So stay affli and wait for better gear or go destro and regemm/reforge as soon as I get my hands on that legendary meta and better gear?

**Kink** · 2013-03-17, 03:07 PM

Once you get that legendary gem that's when affliction's going to get really awesome, I just switched to affliction main spec from starting this tier as demonology..the nerfs kind of made me lose any motivation to play the spec where I can try 2x less as affliction and do the same numbers, can also switch to sac for non-pet friendly encounters so it's a win win (yes sac was nerfed hard but it's still viable on single target if need be). We can't "recommend" a spec for you as we don't know what you specifically like doing, all three specs are well rounded but my personal experience with demo is if you want it to perform what it's capable of you're going to have to try a lot harder, affliction is heavy on watching for procs and updating its dots accordingly where as destro also monitors for procs for chaos bolts and hits huge numbers.

**MordorFires** · 2013-03-17, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by spookyy

So what would your recommendation be? I'm not in a #100 guild, but we're a progression raid guild and #1 on our realm. Would it make sense to just stay with affliction, since there are only 1-2 real single target fights? Especially since Affli is going to get incredibly strong once you get the legendary meta gem and the better your gear gets.
Problem is to figure out when that tipping point is reached and when it's time to go affli again.
I hate situations like that. I simply don't feel like reforging for every single fight. I don't mind changing my spec, but I just hate reforging.

So stay affli and wait for better gear or go destro and regemm/reforge as soon as I get my hands on that legendary meta and better gear?

Go with what you feel most comfortable with. Evrelia's on the bleeding edge of progression and using Aff, supposedly the weakest spec in T14H, so it means all three of our specs are viable. Viable means you're not gimping your raid by using it and none are performing so badly that this is happening. Play what you're best at right now and you'll be fine.

**Nagassh** · 2013-03-17, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by spookyy

So what would your recommendation be?

Whatever you're best at playing, simple as that. The gap is so close that it will all come down to how skilled you are at playing a spec, if you play affliction well but destruction mediocre - affliction will be better. If you're not that good at afflic, but know what you're doing as demo - demo will pull higher.

**Purpleisbetter** · 2013-03-17, 07:17 PM

If you don't mind to invest some time to get used to a new spec, you're better off learning a more performing spec; as long as u like the playstyle.

**MordorFires** · 2013-03-18, 02:44 AM

Why can't we just be happy with balance? All the specs are very close to each other now, if you learn and master all 3 then you'll put out very similar numbers, except in cases where one spec is better suited to the mechanics.

In which case, Destro for Primordius is fun.

**Shauni** · 2013-03-19, 08:46 AM

3 specs are pretty balanced. But on some fight some specs are WAY better than others.

With that in mind, I think the problems lies in the fact that everyone assume everyone can play each spec at 100% Which is false.

On Horridon, for example, destro can pull huge numbers. Affliction too. Not sure of demo (never saw one in ages...) but a badly played destro will sink to the bottom if inexperienced.

Even with the "affli Gosup optimization mania", in the end the differences are very small and no so important.

In T15, when you have downed that massive punchbag called Jinrokh, your skill and your experience will do the DPS

**Femto1** · 2013-03-19, 04:11 PM

I'm completely okay with the nerf received to multi-dotting, I'm just disappointed that it feels like my single target can't compete with other top players anymore. A rogue in our group challenges me to perform well. It's not that I don't have the ability to keep up with him in Single Target now.... It's that I can't keep up with him in single target now.

I think multi-dotting is in a good place, maybe even still too strong... single target is just too low...

**Magnesium** · 2013-03-22, 10:36 PM

I don't think anyone can keep up with rogues in single target, they seem a bit imba this patch.

**almara2512** · 2013-03-22, 11:11 PM

i completely agree, afflic single target dps isnt really on par with that of rogues atm, it feel really nerfed and needs a buff.

**Hellfury** · 2013-03-22, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by almara2512

i completely agree, afflic single target dps isnt really on par with that of rogues atm, it feel really nerfed and needs a buff.

I think rogue asssas single will get nerfed soon

**Mugajak** · 2013-03-23, 05:10 AM

Originally Posted by Hellfury

I think rogue asssas single will get nerfed soon

It might. The gap is closed in heroic gear, but they overshot by the way that last tier's gear had stats set up, and the + to assassin's resolve. Things look a lot more even in BiS (where assassination is pretty much tied with combat for patchwerk, and possibly* behind when HTF weapons are in, even before upgrades that will give them 549 weapons). The stats this tier are less in favor, and assassination isn't scaling quite as fast as other spec/classes. Reduced damage in T14H gear while maintaining the same in T15H would be appropriate.

I'm all for buffing affliction, though =D

**Nagassh** · 2013-03-23, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by Femto1

I'm completely okay with the nerf received to multi-dotting, I'm just disappointed that it feels like my single target can't compete with other top players anymore. A rogue in our group challenges me to perform well. It's not that I don't have the ability to keep up with him in Single Target now.... It's that I can't keep up with him in single target now.

I think multi-dotting is in a good place, maybe even still too strong... single target is just too low...

I know the feeling, on the other hand - I spent all of last tier wondering if I was topping meters because affliction was overpowered, or because I was playing better than my companions.

Sometimes it's better to have to work your arse off to keep up with everyone else than have it handed to you on platter and have to ask "Did I earn this spot?", it's certainly how playing a warlock felt in a lot of the older expansions when our play was considerably harder than many other classes.

**Paraclef** · 2013-03-23, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Shauni

On Horridon, for example, destro can pull huge numbers, but a badly played destro will sink to the bottom if inexperienced.

Remember that " 3 % difference between best and bad players "; the next GC move should be, rain of fire had been removed and the cost of FnB will be reduced with immolate only. ShadowB = one ember back.

Originally Posted by Nagassh

it's certainly how playing a warlock felt in a lot of the older expansions when our play was considerably harder than many other classes.

Good old days sadly.

**ati87** · 2013-03-23, 07:27 PM

You know its a sour comfort to know that affliction is equal to the other warlock (or even other classes) specs once you obtain heroic BIS and once you progressing heroic raids.

Lets be honest that most people won't be doing heroics and I personally feel that the focus of balance should be with normal raids where the majority of the players will be progressing.

lets take the first boss for example. With my group who isn't the best geared (we are a casual guild but many among us could/did raid with the best at some point) the first boss takes us something like 5 mins to kill, during this fight I was 2e on dps behind the slightly better geared destro lock. However the real reason why I was behind lies more with the boss then with our gear. The execute phase during our kills is just to short for affliction locks and it really hurts when our most important phase last only seconds.

Affliction just doesn't cut it with fights where the focus lies with weak adds. A important fix would be that every add gives back soulshards (right now half the time they don't) including those adds that don't really die (think Elegaon orbs) or adds like the legs of garalon. A second fix would be to allow at least single affliction dot to damage a 2e and/or 3e target, right now affliction may be high with fights where multi-dotting is encouraged but their are very few fights that encourage multi-dotting. Usually a single target has to die in a short amount of time meaning you shouldn't focus on multi-targets.

**Ailerist** · 2013-03-24, 06:50 AM

Actually, Raidbots has Destro over Affliction for heroic content now. If you play destro right, it will smash affliction and demonology through and through. Lock in my guild plays affliction and I smash him by a few million at least every fight. There is no fight in ToT where affliction will out due destro. Demonology was on par, but with nerf its not worth it now.

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