Should the UK return the Parthenon Marbles to Greece?

[Stelio Kontos]

Question is pretty simple, in the British Museum are parts of a marble frieze from the Parthenon in Athens. They've been in British hands since the early 19th century when Lord Elgin made a deal with the local occupying power, the Ottomans, to either take the marbles or sketch them (there seems to be some argument as the original Ottoman decree is lost).

So, should the British Museum return the marbles to Greece, or continue to display them in the UK?

Here's a video of a debate regarding this issue on (I think) the BBC featuring Stephen Fry arguing for returning the marbles. I think Fry made about as open-and-shut a case as can be made. But let's see what the enlightened minds of MMO-C have to say about it.

[Kurioxan]

if greece wants it back yes, i believe national treasures should be in their respective nations, unless said nation has an interest in destroying such treasures in which case they should be secured and preserved.

Edit: also if you linked a video, its not working

[Deleted]

They can have them back if they want them that bad, if people aren't that bothered I see no reason to.

[obdigore]

I don't know anything about this issue so I'd be interested in seeing the video that you didn't link?

Edit -> 46 minutes is going to wait until I get home, sorry :P

[Stelio Kontos]

Edit: also if you linked a video, its not working

Thanks for pointing that out, I forgot to link the video.

[semaphore]

Unfortunately for your British bashing goals, last I checked there's a strong plurality in favour of returning it.

Brits don't like giving things they've stolen back.

I rather thought this was a well-known trait by now. The Malvinas/Falklands, the Parthenon Marbles, Northern Ireland (let alone what they did to the whole of Ireland over the centuries).

As swathes of Britain slowly turn into Britanistan, they have to hold on to whatever they can.

[Deleted]

I don't really have the time to watch all of that video could someone sum it up for me please?

[Cybran]

They need to return the Egyptian exhibits and everything. All of the plunder they gathered over the centuries has no place there.

[Stelio Kontos]

Unfortunately for your British bashing goals, last I checked there's a strong plurality in favour of returning it.

Oh c'mon now, moving to the west I've gotten used to just a little bit of ribbing about Greeks. Apparently we're all lazy, homosexual, and possibly Ethiopian or Arab (just to recall the ones I remember off the top of my head) :P I can imagine it's ok to have a little fun with other nationalities in the same vein.

[Kurioxan]

Unfortunately for your British bashing goals, last I checked there's a strong plurality in favour of returning it.

Yeah there is actually, been to the bristol museum and there was a lot of effort into returning relics and several points with questionaires to vote if they should or not, all very strongly in favour.

[obdigore]

Oh c'mon now, moving to the west I've gotten used to just a little bit of ribbing about Greeks. Apparently we're all lazy, homosexual, and possibly Ethiopian or Arab (just to recall the ones I remember off the top of my head) :P I can imagine it's ok to have a little fun with other nationalities in the same vein.

Despite all that you guys do make some good Yoghurt, so props :P

[Xarkan]

So, should the British Museum return the marbles to Greece, or continue to display them in the UK?

In principle yes

However, having not kept up to date on the topic, is Parthenon not falling apart faster than wind and weather would make it due to smog and pollution?

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...OgJ22WqjrkmNCw seems to indicate that this might be (have been) the case.

Would the frieze be safer in Britain?

[Cybran]

They should let the marbles have a referendum. If they say yes they go back if they don't say anything that means they want to stay.

[Stelio Kontos]

In principle yes

However, having not kept up to date on the topic, is Parthenon not falling apart faster than wind and weather would make it due to smog and pollution?

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...OgJ22WqjrkmNCw seems to indicate that this might be (have been) the case.

Would the frieze be safer in Britain?

They just finished building a new museum near the Acropolis. I believe the reason is to move the more threatened pieces and friezes to be displayed in the museum.

[Deleted]

I'd wait until Greece gets their shit together. Wouldn't be surprised if they auction off all their national treasures at some point in the future due to fiscal trouble.

[yetgdhfgh]

HAHAHAHA

They would prolly sell them back to us

[Stelio Kontos]

HAHAHAHA

They would prolly sell them back to us

We wouldn't. Not at all. We might loan them to you, though. But even that would be better than keeping ill-gotten goods. Like Stephen Fry says in the video I linked, that's like if the UK had bought artwork from the Germans occupying the Netherlands pillaged from Dutch collections.

[Ratyrel]

No they should not be returned. If they had not been rightfully bought and kept safe they would now be rubble or fertilizer, as would the Pergamum reliefs. Countries can void their rights to their own cultural heritage if they fail to care about it for more than 1000 years. The only argument here is greed thinly veiled behind a pretend interest in cultural heritage. I am surprised someone like Stephen Fry would feel this way.

[yetgdhfgh]

We wouldn't. Not at all. We might loan them to you, though. But even that would be better than keeping ill-gotten goods. Like Stephen Fry says in the video I linked, that's like if the UK had bought artwork from the Germans occupying the Netherlands pillaged from Dutch collections.

Im british i was making a joke that greece is so in hock that they would immediately sell the marbles back to us brits

[Magpai]

What else is Britain going to do with them? Keep them as historical trophies? I wouldn't say they have some obligation to turn them over, but I don't see why they would want to keep them either.

They should let the marbles have a referendum. If they say yes they go back if they don't say anything that means they want to stay.

lol