PvP toon

[daLaxC]

So,
I'm returning to pvp with 5.2 and I was wondering what class I should reactivate for pvp, ret paladin or windwalker monk. I played the paladin since 05 and just recently switched my main to Blood DK. The monk got better gear, but I'm much more used to the Paladin.
I heard ret is like totally useless in arena / rbg? What do you think about this?

[Snuggli]

Both are pretty useless in Arena/RBG. You'll probably be better off rolling WW, as there might be a couple of viable 3s comps and in RBGs you're somewhat helpful with Ring of Peace / Fists of Fury.

If you want definite RBG/Arena invites, go Holy or MW.

[klaps_05]

ret will be pretty strong this season with all the buffs. monk used to seem op but in really are pretty dog.

[Ebonheart]

So,
I'm returning to pvp with 5.2 and I was wondering what class I should reactivate for pvp, ret paladin or windwalker monk. I played the paladin since 05 and just recently switched my main to Blood DK. The monk got better gear, but I'm much more used to the Paladin.
I heard ret is like totally useless in arena / rbg? What do you think about this?

I think Paladins are really fun, but the worst part is when you get focused or get sat in stuns and fears. Then there is practically nothing you can do. The coolest thing I love about Paladins and really wish a Death Knight had was Hand of Freedom or Cleanse or the newer self cleanse in MoP.

Its really hard to snare/slow a Paladin with those tools. However, there is just nothing a Paladin can do once in a Stun or Fear. Ret is practically never taken to a RBG. Ret really have no use which another class cannot bring. Their CDs can easily be mitigated or avoided. And they lack any kind of pressure outside their CDs. Ret is also pretty much a tough call for anything above 2 v 2. The last season during Cata I queued for 2s with a Frost DK. The Frost DK literally soloed both our opponents most of the time. We didn't really bother about pushing rating as all we cared about was capping points for the week.

Ret Paladins however, are really good in Random BGs but never in co ordinated PVP, its almost guaranteed you are the first one going to be focused in any form of Arena or RBG. You are basically more of a liability.

I don't know anything about Monks to be honest, but from what I've seen they just have amazing mobility probably even better than warriors and druids. But I think that is where it stops. Again don't really see WW Monks wanted for RBGs or Arena. Again they excel in CTF random BGs. I always thought feral druids were the quickest to cap flags, but Monk can do it quicker.

Death Knights are always required and with the a CD to dispel they can put out a lot pressure keeping healers on their toes. However, they do lack survivability. Death Knights bring a lot more to a RBG group than both a Ret or WW and even Arms/Fury Warriors.

If you recently switched your main to a Blood DK, then I suggest sticking to a Death Knight. Frost and Unholy are both viable currently though they each excel in certain PVP situations.

---------- Post added 2013-03-12 at 11:49 PM ----------

ret will be pretty strong this season with all the buffs. monk used to seem op but in really are pretty dog.

They will still never be taken to a RBG group unless its of course a group of friends that are each playing a class they enjoy. Don't expect for a competitive RBG group to bother "carrying" a Ret Paladin. I ain't saying it will not work, its just that there are other classes that do it better. And since RBG usually tends to favour range heavily, there are usually a limited amount of spots for melee.

Rogues will definitely be taking up one of those spots this season. So you probably have 2 more left with one of them probably going to be taken up by a tank either being a Warrior or Guardian Druid for CTF BGs.

[xindralol]

ret will be pretty strong this season with all the buffs. monk used to seem op but in really are pretty dog.

so I heard as well (about the ret changes); no clue about monks though

[LukashP]

so I heard as well (about the ret changes); no clue about monks though

There are really no MAJOR changes for ret. For arena we are perhaps a bit more viable but for RBG the situation didnt really change much

[TJ]

I played Ret at the start of MoP, with 3 minute wings it honestly feels like you are only useful every 3 minutes. Then you can't do anything. But I think there were some changes to wings?

[daLaxC]

well, I think I will run with my old main, the paladin.

[Tyrean]

Basically about the RBG it is just in a bad spot because of the way people have settled into the basic strategies and the way RBG works. I will outline the basic strats briefly and then explain why certain classes are not wanted and what you could change about that.

WSG/TP Capture the flag maps revolve around 10v10 skirmishes in the middle of the field until a tank gets out of position or stacked high and then you cap. There is one strategy that involved the quick cap capability of druids, but that is somewhat of an outlier.

Eye revolves around having a tank/pet class guard two towers and controlling mid for the flag in an 8v8 skirmish. Some teams will send a rogue or stealth team to ninja a third tower most however will go for the middle strategy. Eye is also very fluid and changes rapidly.

Gilneas revolves around the first clash at WW in a 9v9 battle. Leaving the tank classes to guard your start node. Basically whoever wins WW wins the game as it is very easy for organized groups to defend. There are some strategies that involve getting the start node instead of WW, but these are generally hard to pull off because of the way spawns work.

AB revolves around the battle for LM. Most teams will leave a pet class to guard their start node, send a healer and tank to BS to stop a cap until LM is won or lost and then people will slowfall down to BS and take that node. If there is a good solo class they will go to take mines(usually rogue).

Silvershard mines revolves around controlling the middle of the field and reacting quickly to incoming. Basically a prolonged 10v10.

Kotmogu I am not sure if it is still in the rotation this season, but if it is it revolves around controlling the center of the map, another 10v10 struggle.


So there is the basic strategies of the different RBGs. Note the main problem with them when you are talking about ret/enhance/arms/etc which is the constant large scale battles. A successful team will be stacking lots of aoe damage and CC, which those classes don't have a ton of. Melee slots are generally filled by a DK (mass grip, grip, constant AoE pressure) and a rogue (smokebomb, ninja caps, healer lockdown). The rest of the team will be one tank, 3 healers and a bunch of AoE ranged dps. Warlocks, Mages, Boomkins, and Shadow Priests are super popular.

So that is why there is a very low representation of some classes in RBG. Hunters are brought to a lesser extent to guard bases and arms warriors were brought last season because they were OP.


So what can you do if you are an aspiring Ret/Enhance? Start your own team or get on a team that does not run those strategies. There are many different ways to play the RBG maps but everyone has settled on the AoE ranged pressure being the easiest to high ratings. Imagine a WSG where you have an assault team comprised of high burst classes and a defense team in your base. If you take the flag to your base, the opposing flag carrier will not follow, and will either retreat to their GY or base with a healer. If you have a ret/healer/rogue go to retrieve the flag it should be enough to take that back while your team plays defense in either your GY or base. That is an example of how Ret can work in an RBG, but like I said you will have to run the group because the PUG nature of RBG up to 2k revolves around the above mentioned strategies.

All the classes are workable. Will you be at a disadvantage, perhaps if you try to play into the hands of the other team's strengths (mostly aoe damage). Turn the tables and make the games about your strengths instead. An example would be the quickcap. I have seen games with guardian druids where the entire team hangs out in their base and waits for the opposition while the guardian stealths to get the flag. The guardian then moves through mid mostly avoiding everything (sometimes some peel support from a friend) with ease. A great example of a strategy taking advantage of team strengths.

[ysoez]

I watched some monk streaming arenas today and it seem to be a lot of fun

[Deleted]

which class is most badass at pvp now?

[Ebonheart]

which class is most badass at pvp now?

Elemental Shaman.

[xindralol]

There are really no MAJOR changes for ret. For arena we are perhaps a bit more viable but for RBG the situation didnt really change much

other classes getting nerfed sure helps as well
for rbgs I kinda agree, but since you no longer have to upgrade gear you could just get a holy set

[Deleted]

I think the healing buff to hybrids makes palas a bit more viable, but not massively as they still have the tiny mana pool, heals seem to actually heal a bit now though