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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Moshne View Post
    I disagree it has been fixed. Yes, crit is not completely terrible now, but that isn't the same as our secondary stats being in a good place. Our biggest problem right now is secondary stat scaling, as none of our major spells are benefited by all our our secondaries. (Everything but LB/EB haste cap, Lava Burst crit caps, and our totems don't benefit from mastery. Our only baseline spell that receives benefit from all stats is LB. EB does as well, but it generates the problem in its procs.)

    Making Lava Burst scale off crit would fix this. Our best cooldown still receives zero benefit from crit, as well as being able to be haste capped, which hurts our overall scaling.

    Not "borrowing other class' mechanics" isn't terribly compelling. They already did that in the way Lava Burst is designed in the first place. They just borrowed it in a strictly worse fashion.
    yup elemental is running into haste caps, and 1 stat becomming completely useless, such as crit on lava burst, or mastery with PE, so we stack int int int because secondary stats aren't working like they do for all other casters, make it so we start gemming 320 haste/320 crit/320 mastery and i believe elemental will be working properly instead of hitting these silly caps.

  2. #22
    That is exactly the problem. Because we are gemming Int we are getting slammed on the item budget. We aren't alone here. Those classes that are able to gem a secondary stat because of having better scaling 2:1 to their primary are getting more stats per item than we are.

    They put the double scaling on gems in to make socket bonuses more attractive and in theory to make it so we'd want to use secondaries, but the flipside is that if your Int scaling is more than 2:1 you are essentially taking a 2:1 itemization hit each time you put an Int gem in, as the "bonus" is only on the secondary stats, but we are paying the same amount per socket out of the item's budget to be able to do it.

    edit: Though to be clear, the gems are just a symptom. The problem isn't that we can't use secondary gems effectively. The problem is our stats are weighted so top heavy that we pay a penalty for having secondary stats on ANY gear. Over half the DPS stat item budget on your gear is secondary stats. Our secondaries aren't equally good, they are equally bad and it drags down relative scaling. I realize GC doesn't like us to use the phrase "stat scaling," but that doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. The classes gemming secondary stats don't have poor primary stat scaling, your stats just have synergy with each other and increasing any stat increases the value of all others.

    This goes deeper than just regular gear scaling as well. Multiple times per tier there are fight gimmicks that give bonuses to some stat or another and it tends to burn us. Sinestra, Alysrazor flying, Sha P1 (granted, this mattered little), the Primoridus ooze buffs to mention a few. GC is right, you don't see drastic changes from the beginning of a tier's gear till the end, but there is movement, and any time a fight mechanic (or trinket: See Unerring Vision, Legendary Gem) exaggerates a stat we suffer relatively to better stat utilizing classes..

  3. #23
    I don't get it why they don't buff our mastery to 80% or 85% or they could even increase Lava Burst to 2 seconds while increasing it's damage by like 25% during ascendance. I get it that that all 3 secondary stats can't be amazing, but the problem is that for us all 3 are just bad. It is beyond annoying to hit gcd gap during Ascendance + Hero or New Meta/Elemental mastery + Haste proc from trinket wasting a lot of our potential.
    Also they should somehow make us not rely on skull banner that much, it's just stupid the amount of dps we loose if we don't sync it with banner ( The problem which new 4 set bonus tends to do).
    Problem with Ele I have is that they made Chain Lightning stupidly strong while all other weak spots from previous tiers are still, well, really weak.
    There are so many ways for us to get buffed while not becoming OP, just more in line with other specs but blizzard refuses to while we definitely need help in certain areas.

  4. #24
    Mastery is the only secondary they could effectively tweak, given current mechanics. More value per point from haste? Just end up soft capping it that much faster. Crit? Only benefits LB and CL (EB if you use that also). I almost dare wonder if they don't want to do it because it makes mastery another form of crit (that can crit itself, so to speak) or the ever so popular "pvp reasons", ie burst damage. AFAIK the only time anyone's afraid of ele in pvp is ascendance, which basically puts a "CC ME" sign on your forehead.

  5. #25
    part of the problem is haste scaling - given this is of most concern during ascendance where you can get LvB down to 0.7-0.8s you need to make LvB 2s cast to start with. Then the damage needs to be boosted to compensate for this to make sure it remains our highest priority cast. However if you do that it then has the danger of becoming even more bursty in pvp. Another part is crit scaling, clearcasting and 250% crits are designed to offset this, but we still scale worse than most other classes with crit. So you need to shift damage away from LvB to make it better.

    I would suggest straight up that it does the extra damage in a %dmg done as a DOT (and increasing cast to 2s)- however this would feel a bit like a mage's pyro, and to be honest is boring. Another suggestion could be increasing the cast time to 2s, keep the damage the same and give it some stacking buff/modifier to flameshock - perhaps increasing the haste of flameshock by 20-30% for 15s stacking 5 times. This makes it tick more often (so buffing damage 2-3 times FS damage) - more lava surge procs which makes up for some of the loss from increasing the cast time to 2s - as well as requiring ramp up time which makes it weak in pvp. My suggestion does have the downside that it hurts target switching because of ramp up time (which blizz tried to improve a little by making LvB always crit and do more damage to FS targets). Perhaps the haste to FS buff could apply to the shammy rather than the target?

  6. #26
    Pandaren Monk Myz's Avatar
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    Might be interesting to keep this thread within sight when more logs roll in or when people get better gear to update their personal experience. Normal performance doesn't look awfully good on Raidbots, with us being dead last or close to last on both 10 and 25, using different percentiles and overall/all.

    We can only hope things will change, it would be an outright travesty if we're the worst DPS class/spec again. I recently started playing again after a month of pretending I could quit the game, so I'll see for myself soon enough. My guild is progressing on Tortos HC right now, and they're not even running any Elemental Shaman
    Last edited by Myz; 2013-04-01 at 08:58 PM.

  7. #27
    In the LFR's I've been in I've been between first and fifth, depending on the raid. I am at 490 ilvl (I know, so tiny), I usually average 105kish. (depending on fights)

    Warender - Orc Elemental Shaman - Mal'Ganis US

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Dekadez View Post
    Might be interesting to keep this thread within sight when more logs roll in or when people get better gear to update their personal experience. Normal performance doesn't look awfully good on Raidbots, with us being dead last or close to last on both 10 and 25, using different percentiles and overall/all.

    We can only hope things will change, it would be an outright travesty if we're the worst DPS class/spec again. I recently started playing again after a month of pretending I could quit the game, so I'll see for myself soon enough. My guild is progressing on Tortos HC right now, and they're not even running any Elemental Shaman
    If your not using a Ele shaman on Tortos heroic your raid leaders are missing out on a huge tool in the kit. We are amazing on bats and with AG we provide a large amount of burst hps when CL on the bats.

  9. #29
    Pandaren Monk Myz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intrepid1 View Post
    If your not using a Ele shaman on Tortos heroic your raid leaders are missing out on a huge tool in the kit. We are amazing on bats and with AG we provide a large amount of burst hps when CL on the bats.
    It's a combination of a medium populated server and a severe lack of skilled Shamans that are up for grabs. Still, it doesn't seem mandatory as they killed him just fine.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Intrepid1 View Post
    If your not using a Ele shaman on Tortos heroic your raid leaders are missing out on a huge tool in the kit. We are amazing on bats and with AG we provide a large amount of burst hps when CL on the bats.
    Several guilds are doing Heroic Tortos using the "1 tank kites bats" strategy". Elemental is hands down the worst spec to bring to this fight when kiting bats. If your guild uses a strat that involves killing bats, then ya, elemental is amazing for that, but at the same time since melee cant effectively kill turtles at all, even as ele you may be assigned to turtles only and melee take care of bats.

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