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  1. #1

    Make raid for casual and do it right!

    They had it right during Vanilla. They need to mix it with TBC.

    Even though casual didn't get to "raid" in Vanilla, they actually raided. They raided their heart out. It was called "10 man dungeons" i.e: UBRS, Scholo, Strath Front, Strath Backdoor etc... thought I wish they called 10 man raid instead of dungeon.

    The casual had their own raid, they had their own raiding gear to collect, T0, and especially tier 0.5... with upgrade and a few pieces of epic.

    This was great! there was raiding for hardcore player and raiding for casual players.

    Now they should go back to this system except, instead of 40, make 25 man the next step... so if casual who did 10 man raid liked it... they can work for 25 man.

    IMO, 10 man got it pretty much right for both hardcore and casual ppl in Vanilla.

    You had to use the community to do it and none of this rediculous "LFR" crap with epic that doesn't feel epic. Make right 10 man right and give its item a rank that make sense (rarity).

  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans Bathory's Avatar
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    Na, I like it how it is. They are doing it right.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Bathory View Post
    Na, I like it how it is. They are doing it right.
    Did you even do 10 man UBRS, SCHOLO, Strath front/backdoor back then? that was the RIGHT of doing 10 man raid for casual. Raiding like that was MUCH more exciting... it was called dungeon but it was really raiding, just named differently.

    How is 10 man raiding back in Vanilla not better than it is now? you interact with the community to find a group and you work together, not like LFR where u group with ppl u never see and its done afterward.

  4. #4
    Those examples you mentioned were all 5 man dungeons that you *could* raid if you wanted but didn't *have* to raid - apart from UBRS.

    People raided them because most were new and bad at the game not because it was fun or whatever.
    They also quickly disallowed you from raiding those dungeons when they revamped the dungeons.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Snuzzfizzle View Post
    Those examples you mentioned were all 5 man dungeons that you *could* raid if you wanted but didn't *have* to raid - apart from UBRS.

    People raided them because most were new and bad at the game not because it was fun or whatever.
    They also quickly disallowed you from raiding those dungeons when they revamped the dungeons.
    They were 10 man in Vanilla not 5 man what are you talking about?

    They were made for the casual. People did them because they were casual.

  6. #6
    Mechagnome Lefeng's Avatar
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    They do make casual raids. It's called LFR difficulty.

  7. #7
    They have 3 difficulty levels of raids already, two of them with two size modes as well. Is that really not enough?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by LairenyX View Post
    They were 10 man in Vanilla not 5 man what are you talking about?

    They were made for the casual. People did them because they were casual.
    They were 5 man dungeons.
    You were able to enter them as raid. You were able to raid them but they were 5 man dungeons.
    They revamped the dungeons and decreased the difficulty level a lot.
    But they were 5 man dungeons.

    LBRS/UBRS were raids.


    Also, they weren't 10 man. I did Scholo and Stratholme with as many as 15 people.

  9. #9
    Pandaren Monk willtron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ugru View Post
    They do make casual raids. It's called LFR difficulty.
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  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans starkey's Avatar
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    Nostilga, private servers have these dungeons if you want to relive the experience.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ugru View Post
    They do make casual raids. It's called LFR difficulty.
    The problem is making LFR setting the same setting as normal/hardcore raiding. I feel like I'm wasting my time for "bad" gear. I feel like I'm wasting my time when I could just be doing the real thing.

    Having LFR kills my mentality of doing normal raiding. You're saying I don't have to do LFR and just do normal? well I don't want to do either simply because LFR exist.

  12. #12
    They were 10 man in Vanilla not 5 man what are you talking about?

    They were made for the casual. People did them because they were casual.
    ...The only Vanilla instance you listed INTENDED to be a was UBRS. The rest were run by raids not because they were casual, but because they wanted easy access to loot rather than the experience of doing quests and difficult encounters (oh man, how things have *changed* /facepalm).

    Scholo, Strath, and BRD were 5 man instances, though. Sorry to burst your bubble. Now ZG and AQ20 were raids, but then again, you rarely found pugs that did them properly until later in the patches they were released in, after people started branching off their guilds to start them up.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Snuzzfizzle View Post
    They were 5 man dungeons.
    You were able to enter them as raid. You were able to raid them but they were 5 man dungeons.
    They revamped the dungeons and decreased the difficulty level a lot.
    But they were 5 man dungeons.

    LBRS/UBRS were raids.


    Also, they weren't 10 man. I did Scholo and Stratholme with as many as 15 people.
    Okay technicality aside, I did them 10 man most of the time... main point is: do casual raiding how it was done in Vanilla.

    Different SETTING.

  14. #14
    All dungeons now have a cap on group size to limit the number of players that may enter the dungeon. It was necessary to add this cap as raiding these dungeons trivialized much of the content. Because of this change we can now look to adding better loot to them during future content patches.

    All other dungeons in the game will be capped at 10 members.Several dungeons will be re-examined for balancing in light of thischange. In addition, will have their loot improved significatnly forthe next content patch.


    http://vanilla-wow.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_1.3.0

    They nerfed those dungeons for a reason. They were never intended to be raids.

  15. #15
    Herald of the Titans Nadev's Avatar
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    Hip hip huzzah for the same exact content for an entire expansion!
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackishi View Post
    ...The only Vanilla instance you listed INTENDED to be a was UBRS. The rest were run by raids not because they were casual, but because they wanted easy access to loot rather than the experience of doing quests and difficult encounters (oh man, how things have *changed* /facepalm).

    Scholo, Strath, and BRD were 5 man instances, though. Sorry to burst your bubble. Now ZG and AQ20 were raids, but then again, you rarely found pugs that did them properly until later in the patches they were released in, after people started branching off their guilds to start them up.
    Technicality aside, assume URBS, LBRS, Scholo, and Strath were 10 man raid for casual. Do it like this is my point.

  17. #17
    Epic! Raxxed's Avatar
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    Eh, 10mans being the casual difficulty and 25mans being the more hardcore difficulty is mostly how it was in Wrath except the 25man guilds cleared 10man aswell for gear.
    If they made 10man easier and share a lockout with 25 (same current difficulty) I would have no complaints.
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Blizzard offered cardboard cut outs with poster pictures of bosses stapled on them upside down and sideways and many players now feel that is raiding.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Davendwarf View Post
    Hip hip huzzah for the same exact content for an entire expansion!
    That's impossible because you're a casual. You'll never be able to finish casual raiding content.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-14 at 12:33 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Raxxed View Post
    Eh, 10mans being the casual difficulty and 25mans being the more hardcore difficulty is mostly how it was in Wrath except the 25man guilds cleared 10man aswell for gear.
    If they made 10man easier and share a lockout with 25 (same current difficulty) I would have no complaints.
    That's why I said earlier the raids need to be different setting with different rank for gear... like in Vanilla.

    Casual get blues and rare chances for purple at the end boss or in quest line design to up their tier 0 to 0.5.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by LairenyX View Post
    The problem is making LFR setting the same setting as normal/hardcore raiding. I feel like I'm wasting my time for "bad" gear. I feel like I'm wasting my time when I could just be doing the real thing.

    Having LFR kills my mentality of doing normal raiding. You're saying I don't have to do LFR and just do normal? well I don't want to do either simply because LFR exist.

    Then that's your problem. Surprise, mate: LFR isn't required for anything. Back when the expack began, I started MSV as a new tank with 0 LFR experience and really only having heroic tank gear (and basically most of the guild raid was in the same boat), and we ended up clearing to Spirit Kings during our first week. LFR just accentuated the experience by giving us some leeway to practice and some gear, but honestly? Didn't need to do it, though I don't knock on the people who did.

    If having LFR available "kills" raiding for you, that's a problem with you, not the game itself. You're honestly caring too much about an aspect that shouldn't affect you if you like normal raiding (and have a guild to raid with).

  20. #20
    Herald of the Titans Nadev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LairenyX View Post
    That's impossible because you're a casual. You'll never be able to finish casual raiding content.
    What? Casual doesn't mean bad.

    This was one of my gripes with TBC. The problem was 10 mans in TBC consisted of Karazhan and Zul'Aman. 2 raids for an entire expansion. There were that many 25 mans in the initial tier of the expansion. I'd be fine with separate 10 man raids (I'd love it, actually). It would give them so much more freedom in encounter design and balancing.
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