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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by This Guy View Post
    Blizzard said that Draeneis are gonna have a comeback at some point and get alot of attention.
    Read: Velen will go neutral to lead the anti-demon faction that will crop up when the inevitable Legion-expansion hits :P

    I'm not expecting every race to have meaningful appearances on every patch, but gnomes haven't done anything since failing to take Gnomeregan back in the pre-Cata event
    Worgen? Nothing since their starting zone (Or the undead 10-20 zone)
    Night elves? Fodder to show how tough orcs are in the books and to show how "smart" Varian is in-game.
    Dwarves? Booze-jokes and Archaeology NPCs
    Draenei? Velen has a bit part in an out-of-game short story, otherwise nothing since Velen cleansed the sunwell for the blood elves (Totally logical move there BTW)

    This isn't an issue of "No new lore for 6 months"-kind of deal, try years without anything meaningful...

  2. #42
    I honestly don't agree at all. I feel that the reasoning of "The Horde has an Alliance-ey race so the Alliance should have a Horde-y race" ruins any argument. It takes something like 4 more seconds to get to Farm from the Horde starting point, than it does for Alliance to get to Stables from their starting point. I want that fixed. Then Blizzard can insert a new race into WoW, so that the Alliance can feel Horde-y.

  3. #43
    Sorry if I didn't read anything after "Lawful Good" for humans in warcraft, are you fucking joking? They are the worst or top 3 at best races in this game in terms of being awful douchebags which I think is purposeful.

  4. #44
    I'd say its a lack of development across the board.
    night evles: once xenophobic tree dwelling amazonian warrior women and their druidic males turned into purple humans.
    dwarfs: could be noble lords of the deep places, as skilled with politics as turning iron in a furnace, instead they are drunk scotsmen
    gnomes: technical savants who stuck closer to their origins than any other titan createdrace due to their long isolation before discovery by the dwarfs. If the black harvests investigating the defeated foes for magic why arent the gnomes doing the same with tech like ulduars trains or uldums hologram tech?
    worgen: should be a stubborn and proud race of coastal "men of iron" people made harsh by a cold, foggy and harsh landscape. instead we get snuffling pug women and cockney sidekicks to the nelfs.
    humans: vanilla rpg humans, no originality whatsoever, stormwinds meant to be a melting pot of 7 different human cultures in one refuge, where does that show? the colours of the roofs?
    dreanie: ....who?

    I could say similar for the orcs, but their trouble is their leaders get story that makes the players seem even more faceless. we KNOW there are forsaken not happy with sylvanas' actions, both players and npcs. Is this shown? ever? nope. In the horde its leaders first, commoners last and conversely in the alliance its a huge faction of commoners from all races getting stuff done while their leaders remains forgotten.

  5. #45
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
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    I think that the title is a bit of a contextual contradiction (Cause the alliance seems to have the identity of the first alliance haha) but I agree with the sentiment. Homogenization on the alliance is an issue, lore seems to go out of it's way to conform to a human-based cultural identity.

    I'd like to say that Elune being a naaru wouldn't necessarily lead to even more homogenization, but history suggests so. I mean, I kinda want Elune being a Naruu, but only because I want the contrast of nelven and humam worshiping to a same deity; and that doesn't seems likely.

  6. #46
    Elemental Lord Snowraven's Avatar
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    I agree like 90% on your post OP.

    First I'll take the parts I don't agree on though:
    -tauren religion is still very linked with orc one, and tauren aren't pushed as an important part of the Horde, more as vassals of the orcs, that's how I see it. Since Garrosh there is some difference since tauren remain linked with old Thrall orcs, while orcs themselves became more bloodthirsty, which cured a bit of this though.
    -blood elves are the only race within the Horde that I feel lost most of their identity. Ever since they were introduced in the warcraft lore, they've been a race that tried to protect their kingdoms at all costs. This meant that the fel absorbing morally grey part fit them in BC. But then at the end of BC Blizzard went and basically scrapped all that by giving them Light infused Sunwell. That was not a very good decision as I see it (funny, this further goes with your logic, as by doing this they made blood elves closer to the Alliance mentality, thus ruining the Alliance in a way even more since there was an alliance think-alike race in the Horde now).

    Now on points I fully agreed:
    - night elves, they went from hero to zero. They focus too much on neutral aspects like Cenarion Circle and stuff... this is really not good. I don't see many quests relating to Elune and certainly I don't see a difference in ideology between Elune priests and Light ones. This is bad and should be changed. Especially considering that the night elves are, in the end, a society ruled by priests (of Elune and of the demi-gods in the form of the Priestess of the Moon and the Archdruid) so the influence of religion should be great. Furthermore, the calculated savagery seems to have gone away, night elves indeed are no more then stupid and incompetent now, just wanting to throw themselves head-on in melee. Yes, a race of guerilla archers throwing themselves in melee... this is a 180 degrees turn from the night elves people loved originally. The night elves I know are like the ones who performed genocide on the Shatterspear village. They're like Shandris Feathermoon in books (as in, careful to the point of paranoia and calculated as serial killers and when they strike they strike they first strike easy to test defenses then they strike to fully destroy everything, look at Shatterspear, first they send you, the random elf to kill a few hordies and burn a few supplies to test the defenses... then there's a whole army there burning and pillaging the main town of the trolls!).
    - dwarves, ironically, they had some tension before Cataclysm. The Wildhammers were away, the Dark irons planned to fight them.... now all are together and from in-game perspective they're happy and cheerfull except for some 1 quest where you find some dark irons on top of Ironforge. The tension needs to be put back into spotlight. Maybe Muradin agrees with Varian. I certainly don't see Moira doing so and she does have some power. I can understand that ok, they were enforced leaders by Varian, it doesn't mean they have to kiss is ass! Even in the book, one ironforge dwarf states that this is an internal politics problem of the dwarves and Varian shouldn't interfere.
    -gnomes... no comment, they're the joke race of wow... seriously, at this point either you do a 180 turn on them and give them some serious aspect or remove them, I'm tired of their bad jokes everywhere. Yes, ok, jokes are good... if they're done with some measure, not everywhere you see a gnome you know there's a joke coming...
    -worgen and draenei need more involvement. worgen not even getting to see their 10-20 zone is a major fault of their implementation for example, and draenei, with Cataclysm there was a giant chance to put them in old world too like they did with blood elves, but noooo....

  7. #47
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    Draenei? Velen has a bit part in an out-of-game short story, otherwise nothing since Velen cleansed the sunwell for the blood elves (Totally logical move there BTW)
    Actually it is logical,Velen did not cleanse the Sunwell because he was a kindhearted individual, no he did it so the blood elves would fight for the army of the light when the time comes.

    All the Alliance needs is some spotlight on their leaders and maybe a bit of inner turmoil, I really have a hard time believing Moira agrees with everything Varian does for example.
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2013-03-16 at 12:50 PM.
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  8. #48
    Immortal Nindoriel's Avatar
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    You want an explanation why so many players like the Horde better? It has little to do with the identity of the faction or the story behind it because a lot of players don't care about that. It is because of the visuals of the races. More people are into the more beastly, brutal and evil-looking races of the Horde like Tauren, Orcs, Trolls and Forsaken than there are people interested in playing Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes and Wood Elves.

  9. #49
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    It is because of the visuals of the races. More people are into the more beastly, brutal and evil-looking races of the Horde like Tauren, Orcs, Trolls and Forsaken than there are people interested in playing Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes and Wood Elves.
    I'm gonna say that's wrong.

    People prefer the more "pretty" races vastly more than the savage looking ones.
    We saw this in Vanilla where the Alliance easily outnumbered the Horde. We see it from TBC to this day where the largest race in the Horde are the Blood Elves which hold 25% of their population and if I'm not mistaken was as high as 30% before the Pandaren became a thing. The savage appearing races of the Horde only populate 50% of the factions overall player base which is tiny considering they are 4/7 of the races. On top of this the 3 most popular races in order are Human, Blood Elf and Night Elf.

    So no there's no proof that it's the savage or evil appearance.

    I can also guarantee that when the model update hits we will see more people play Alliance given how Blood Elves are popular for being the most up to date "pretty" race.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2013-03-16 at 01:16 PM.

  10. #50
    Dreadlord Jawless Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandrox View Post
    Probably mass genocide on the men and children, keep the women around for breeding stock. They did it with the Draenei.
    you take demonic-blood fuelled orcs master-minded by a selfish warlock who would knowingly damn his own people for personal gain and you compare that to Garrosh...

    i think you're over-estimating garrosh a bit =P
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombiebob
    I'm still waiting on someone to tell me where all these people that suddenly care about Warrior balance were during Cataclysm when they were blow up dolls with plate armor on.
    Quote Originally Posted by cutterx2202 View Post
    Stop complaining to solve your lack of ability, and start reading and practicing to gain ability. Stop trying to bring people down to your level instead of striving to raise yours.

  11. #51
    What frustrates me is how easily Blizzard could do more and have completely failed to do so in this expansion.

    I mean, seriously, Varian is RIGHT THERE. He's the center point for the Alliance in this war. Why did they ignore this opportunity?

    Instead of "Hush, Tyrande" 2.0 in A Little Patience, why didn't Tyrande take the lead of telling Varian to be patient, lay traps, do all the things they did? Because that's pretty much how I'd expect a woman who's led her people for 10,000 years in conflict and wars in a forest setting to approach a situation. In the end, Varian could have learned how the night elves fight, their tactics, and their style.

    The Trials of the High King was basically a set up pitch that should have been a home run, but they didn't capitalize. You have Varian go through this situations LEARNING FROM the nations of the Alliance, growing more knowledgeable and wise, understanding each of his allies' strengths to build up to Varian being a masterful tactician and general utilizing all the races in the final siege on Orgrimmar. In the process, each Alliance race could have equally gotten more of a chance to shine similar to what the Horde's racial leaders are getting.

    Instead, the 30 something year old king is wiser than the 10,000 year old warrior priestess in what should have been her own area of expertise.
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  12. #52
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Instead, the 30 something year old king is wiser than the 10,000 year old warrior priestess in what should have been her own area of expertise.
    Well Humans and Orcs steamroll everything in the warcraft universe, unfortunately.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Well Humans and Orcs steamroll everything in the warcraft universe, unfortunately.
    True, yet...
    Vol'jin is being set up for some nice development
    Sylvanas is supposed to have a role in this expansion
    Lor'themar is taking a role in scenarios and this patch
    And Blizz indicated Rexxar may even show up to get involved before the end.

    Those aren't all orcs, after all.

    During Cataclysm at San Diego Comic Con when Metzen indicated to Horde fans "your warchief's coming back" (referring to Thrall being neutral), he also said they had some plans for a story developing the Council of Three Hammer further as well.

    We've seen one of these two things, not the other. That was during Cataclysm he said that. :/
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  14. #54
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Sylvanas is supposed to have a role in this expansion
    Besides the fact that their needs to be some action taken against her by the Alliance for her actions, she really doesn't need development. She got quite a lot during Cata, if not more than any of the other current racial leaders.

  15. #55
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    True, yet...
    Vol'jin is being set up for some nice development
    Sylvanas is supposed to have a role in this expansion
    Lor'themar is taking a role in scenarios and this patch
    And Blizz indicated Rexxar may even show up to get involved before the end.

    Those aren't all orcs, after all.

    During Cataclysm at San Diego Comic Con when Metzen indicated to Horde fans "your warchief's coming back" (referring to Thrall being neutral), he also said they had some plans for a story developing the Council of Three Hammer further as well.

    We've seen one of these two things, not the other. That was during Cataclysm he said that. :/
    As I said the Alliance leadership needs development and some internal strife, there is so much potential, but for some reason, that is beyond me they don't develop them.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-16 at 03:28 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Besides the fact that their needs to be some action taken against her by the Alliance for her actions, she really doesn't need development. She got quite a lot during Cata, if not more than any of the other current racial leaders.
    Lor'themar got more ingame lore than most nowadays, to be honest.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  16. #56
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    What frustrates me is how easily Blizzard could do more and have completely failed to do so in this expansion.
    Notably with Tyrande and the Night Elves it's really quite bad. They must know why people liked them in WC3 and what made them and Tyrande likeable.
    It's this type of stuff that annoys me. I'm not even that big a Night Elf fan, but it boggles my mind how despite the fact they know what they are supposed to be like given how they pulled it off in WC3 but instead don't. Heck the achievement [I Used to Like Them] has a stab at fan reactions.

    It's mildly annoying and that's my daily whine .

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Besides the fact that their needs to be some action taken against her by the Alliance for her actions, she really doesn't need development. She got quite a lot during Cata, if not more than any of the other current racial leaders.
    She did indeed, but during one of the early MoP developer chats they did say she'd have a role in the whole thing with Garrosh.

    Don't get me wrong, though, I'm happy that both factions as a whole are at least doing something. Cataclysm was a lot of Horde attacks, Horde internal interaction, Alliance quests have players react while the faction does nothing whatsoever.

    There's a lot of things I don't get with how Blizz develops the story, though. /shrug
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  18. #58
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    She did indeed, but during one of the early MoP developer chats they did say she'd have a role in the whole thing with Garrosh.

    Don't get me wrong, though, I'm happy that both factions as a whole are at least doing something. Cataclysm was a lot of Horde attacks, Horde internal interaction, Alliance quests have players react while the faction does nothing whatsoever.

    There's a lot of things I don't get with how Blizz develops the story, though. /shrug
    Well at least Jaina does something nowadays.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  19. #59
    I'm good with Varian, Anduin, and Jaina being involved. Just looking forward to seeing other races expanded.

    I really got confused with people saying Varian was a warmonger during Cataclysm when....he did nothing. At all.

    I'm expecting good things for the Alliance when the Legion expansion comes back around. Draenei should get a lot of attention and Alliance should get Turalyon and Alleria back, which I'm hoping includes a confrontation between the Windrunner sisters at some point.
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  20. #60
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    She did indeed, but during one of the early MoP developer chats they did say she'd have a role in the whole thing with Garrosh.
    They also said the Night Elves in 5.1 were bad ass .

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