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  1. #221
    Surprised myself because I tried to macro it like that back in cata, and it wasn't working, the macro would always cast smite. Nowadays, I prefer using them independently due to the glyph/penance timing, but it does look odd.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Sabien View Post
    Well I dont know what to say, maybe you need to relook at your macro writing.

    To address Holy Fire clipping Penance. The macro will always try to cast smite before holy fire therefore the logic would suggest that the nochannel part would stop it in its tracks.

    As I have said twice now it is spammable to cast smite and holy fire when it is off cooldown. I would probably say it would be faster than you could cast holy fire right after a smite without the macro. I've tried, although I'm in Australia with 200ms ping so that might just the reason.

    It pretty clearly say cast in front of holy fire so not sure where you got the idea it was dealt with as an item?
    The "nochannel" part only concerns the command it is linked to, which is the "/castsequence" containing only smite. According to the guidelines and explanations blizzard published about those commands the "/cast" part should only ever be able to execute a spell if no other in that macro command tried to execute one before, which is only ever the case if all brackets in the castsequence command returned false.
    Furthermore those brackets don't seem to do what you implied now that I have taken a second look at them. If you can harm your target it will cast smite whether you channel pennance or not, canneling it. Even if that target is friendly or does not exist it will attempt to cast smite at your target of target and throw a error message if there is none, again whether you are channeling pennance or not. Even if you got somehow past those two it would still try to cast smite whenever you are not channeling penance. You would have to include the nonchanneling part into both of those brackets to achieve the ends you hope for.

    For your information, "/cast" and "/use" have been synonyms for some time and can be used interchangeably. Both will be ignored for most spells if you try to call them after already trying to call other spells, whether you succeded with those or not. Only spells like Inner Focus, and use effects of items will be called regardless.
    While it is possible that there was an oversight with Solace I doupt there is one with Holy Fire which was around for a long time. If there is, then it is a bug that will most likely get fixed.
    Such a bug would allow your macro to seem to work halfway, as in, it could maybe cast Holy Fire when Holy Fire is off CD if there is enough lag involved, but I don't exspect that to stay around as it something Blizzard took action to make impossible whenever a way to make it possible was found in the past.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-29 at 09:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabien View Post
    I dont understand why people are surprised , lol

    Also I would suggest leaving Holy Fire in rather than changing it to Power Word: Solace. This way you wont have to change it for fights like Horridon where mindbender makes the mechanics abit easier when youspec out of Solace. Solace tooltip actually says it replaces Holy Fire and that extends to mention of it in macroes.
    Yes this was added in a patch recently.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-29 at 09:20 PM ----------

    The way I would have tried this would have been:

    #showtooltip Holy Fire
    /castsequence [nochanneling,@target,harm][nochanneling,@targettarget,harm] reset=10 Holy Fire,Smite,Smite,Smite,Smite,Smite,Smite,Smite,Smite,Smite

    This will always start with Holy Fire.
    It will only cast if nothing is channeling. (Which means no Penance and no Hymne of Hope, we only have those two aside from specials that are part of the encoutnters or conjuring things with warlocks or portstones.)
    It will first try to cast on the target if that can be harmed, then the target of your target if that can, if neither it will not do anything, not even stick some spell to your mouse or some stupid stuff like that.
    It will try to cast Holy Fire again 10s later, which is hen its CD is up.
    It always shows the tooltip of Holy Fire, you already know what Smite does, the only reason you want the tooltip is so you can find the button faster and to see when the CD of Holy Fire is up. So why show the tooltip and symbol of Smite? You could omit the tooltip entierely and it would change to Smite whenever Holy Fire is on CD, but it would show nothing when you have no target.
    There are 10 spells in there since you can never ever cast more than those in 10s due to GCD limitations - so you won't run out.
    This macro comforms to blizzards guidelines.
    Last edited by Noradin; 2013-04-29 at 09:24 PM.

  3. #223
    Stood in the Fire
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    What is happening with that macro is that it is operating as if it is a Smite then Holy Fire cast sequence but because of the way it is structured it is resetting after each Holy Fire whether you are able to use Holy Fire or not, unlike a typical cast sequence. This is most likely the best way to put them both on the same bind outside of a keyboard macro that presses 2 buttons to activate them both in succession so Holy Fire is always cast first if possible, but is still inefficient on the whole.

  4. #224
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    I admitted it wasn't perfect earlier but the point and the original question was for a macro that helped him keep Power Word: Solace or Holy Fire on CD. This does it.

    Macros will not replace good play and an understanding of mechanics.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    The way I would have tried this would have been:

    #showtooltip Holy Fire
    /castsequence [nochanneling,@target,harm][nochanneling,@targettarget,harm] reset=10 Holy Fire,Smite,Smite,Smite,Smite,Smite,Smite,Smite,Smite,Smite

    It will try to cast Holy Fire again 10s later, which is hen its CD is up.
    It always shows the tooltip of Holy Fire, you already know what Smite does, the only reason you want the tooltip is so you can find the button faster and to see when the CD of Holy Fire is up. So why show the tooltip and symbol of Smite? You could omit the tooltip entierely and it would change to Smite whenever Holy Fire is on CD, but it would show nothing when you have no target.
    There are 10 spells in there since you can never ever cast more than those in 10s due to GCD limitations - so you won't run out.
    This macro comforms to blizzards guidelines.
    I used a macro similar to this in cata, when I did try to macro both spells in one (back then atonement wasn't a big deal outside building evangelism stacks). The whole 10 seconds sequence duration was not working, and all I could find about it looking around was that blizzard broke these cast sequences at some point. What I did was calculate how many smites I would fit in a holy fire cd and put that amount of them in the macro (also a line to reset the macro after 10 seconds anyway, or on hitting alt). Otherwise, it would not care if holy fire was off cd until it was done casting the amount of smites written. It wasn't optimal, when I was specced into ToT smite would reduce the cd of penance, so I was using more of those, plus I wasn't always just smiting, and it was also conflicting with bloodlust, so it wasn't really managing to use holy fire on cd, but as said, back then atonement wasn't a huge deal. I stopped using the macro in mop when optimizing it became important.

    edit: I just tested that macro and it doesn't work. I uses solace, then doesnt cast anything till solace is off cd). Sabien's one is working idd.
    Last edited by Saphiramoon; 2013-04-30 at 08:46 AM.

  6. #226
    Hm, I'm using a macro that contain something like this on my paladin, I think it still works as intended.
    If they made the other way to create a castsequence possible, is it also possible to combine those two? That would allow someone to condense all of atonement into one button, which would be suboprtimal play but most likely ok for trash mob packs.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-30 at 11:14 AM ----------

    I tested that other macro right now, it is as I thought: It only works due to lag and if you are spamming the button very fast.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Sabien View Post
    #showtooltip Smite
    /castsequence [target=target, harm] [target=targettarget] [nochanneling:Penance] Smite
    /cast [target=target, harm] [target=targettarget] Holy Fire

    That is the macro I currently use and it works perfect as described in my original post.
    Thank you for the macro.

  8. #228
    i have never understood why Twist of fate doesnt affect both SS and PWS was there a blue post about this?? couldnt find any
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  9. #229
    Having to heal on my alt in our main raids untill we find a proper replacement, and so far, I've always been going full-out spirit. Having (finally) gotten the meta gem this reset as the last of my 4 characters, I've been toying with the idea of going for a more "offensive"-build.
    What I'd like to know, is what my best choise here is. Dropping out of all my spirit gems, I'll end up at 15k->11K spirit or so (still a good chunk, I guess - my 25 man always have 1-2 resto shamans, so haven't felt any mana issues as of yet, apart from Primordius heroic with lots of haste buffs. It should also be said that I have been using the mindbender talent for the extra damage over Solace for the mana, and I expect I'll change to solace instead - anyone have an estimate of how much spirit this change would provide?).

    The guide recommends Int as our "main" priority stat for throughput, and while that obviously makes sense due to SP scaling, it also means higher overhealing on spells that are not fully effective. Now, this obviously doesn't matter to absorbs (PW:S, spirit shell, DA) and to a lesser extent Atonement (always picks lowest HP target, so least chance for overhealing), but it WILL increase the overheal of things such as my PoH, "normal" heals, PoM and the like.
    Crit, on the other hand, would provide me with additional absorbs, which are rarely "wasted" due to the nature of absorbs and damage in heroic modes. It's also a pure throughput stat, both DPS and HPS wise, just like int.

    Now, with all that being said, what would be the best choise to go for? I'm leaning towards crit myself - here's my armory for reference, having gemmed/reforged into a Crit>Spirit>Mastery>Haste build: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...maros/advanced
    Last edited by Dracodraco; 2013-05-12 at 05:33 AM.

  10. #230
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    Draco I would say since you have both the meta and HLG you would be more than fine with 10 - 11k spirit as a disc priest in a 25m environment.

  11. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    it also means higher overhealing on spells that are not fully effective.
    It honestly really shouldn't increase overhealing but moreover it doesn't really matter. It's not like smaller heals are superior. Generally, we should gem for the hard moments of fights, not to minimize overhealing when people aren't really damaged. Even if you do overheal more, it'd just be those moments when healing matters the least. It's hard for a disc priest to overheal anyways. Atonement and PoM are smart heals which makes each cast have the lowest chance of overhealing meanwhile things like PoH and PW:S should really only be cast when they won't overheal.

    Int is the best way to gem even if you're worried about dps since smite and friends damage portion scale with SP. After Int, it's best for HPS to balance crit and mastery. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...S1zMFB2eVZxTFE is a good resource to help balance them with the mastery and 5% crit buffs in mind. If you're only worried about dps, I suppose gem crit over mastery.

    So for HPS
    Int > spirit to 10-11k > crit = mastery > haste
    For DPS
    Int > spirit to 10-11k > crit > mastery > haste

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    I expect I'll change to solace instead - anyone have an estimate of how much spirit this change would provide?
    Solace is generally a much better choice since we'd cast holy fire anyways. Holy fire cost's a chunk of mana while solace is free, well beyond free, mana positive.

    Over a 3 min period (assuming 1 shadowfiend, 3 mindbenders and 15 solace (5 per min, average use not perfect use) :

    Shadowfiend gives 33% mana back

    Mindbender gives 48% mana back

    So the mind bender talent gives an extra 15% mana per 3 mins

    Solace gives 15% mana back as well from the mana gained portion with average use (18% with perfect use)

    But then there is mana saved if we were to cast Holy Fire anyways.

    Holy fire costs 1.8% mana so over 3 mins, solace saves 27% mana (32% with perfect use).

    So, in summary:
    Mindbender gives 15% mana per 3 mins while
    Solace gives 42% mana per 3 mins

  12. #232
    how much damage does mindbender do than solace talent??? (i always thought mindbender do more damage than solace)
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  13. #233
    The Patient Tenaru's Avatar
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    Unless Im missing something Solace does as much as Holy fire, but Mindbender does more than Shadowfiend.
    If you want specific numbers just compare Mindbender dmg to Shadowfiend damage and subtract. (depends on fight lenght and when you use Shadowfiend when it comes to specific numbers, not that I see why the dps numbers matter in that case anyway).

    So if you're looking at it from a purely dps pov I'd assume Mindbender > Solace, at least with basic knowledge.

    However, as stated above, Solace > Mindbender mana-wise and when used well enough.
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  14. #234
    High Overlord Soraka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulstrike View Post
    how much damage does mindbender do than solace talent??? (i always thought mindbender do more damage than solace)
    At my gear, shadowfiend hits for around 40k and mindbender for around 30k so over a 3 minutes shadowfiend does 440k damage and mindbender does 990k so mindbender is around 550k more damage per 3mins.

    Solace dose the same damage as holy fire so 0 dps increase.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Eielayia View Post
    It honestly really shouldn't increase overhealing but moreover it doesn't really matter. It's not like smaller heals are superior. Generally, we should gem for the hard moments of fights, not to minimize overhealing when people aren't really damaged. Even if you do overheal more, it'd just be those moments when healing matters the least. It's hard for a disc priest to overheal anyways. Atonement and PoM are smart heals which makes each cast have the lowest chance of overhealing meanwhile things like PoH and PW:S should really only be cast when they won't overheal.
    I never ment that smaller heals would be stronger - my question is basicly, what is the scale factors on crit VS int? If Int is not majorly ahead, then Crit is a more reliable stat than Int to minimise overheals and to maximize absorb potential (on fights like Dark Animus I'd much rather shield someone than heal them normally, due to soon-incomming lethal damage in form of jolts. Same deal on Lei shen, I always try to prestack aegis on my group for transistions etc).
    So is Int so much stronger that one should go for it over crit?

  16. #236
    It was quite some time since I did the math, but if I remember correctly, 2 crit got quite close or even ahead of 1 int when you reached BiS (or close to) gear so at that point you'd probably want to swap to crit gemming. Before that point int was ahead but not by that much (exact amount obviously depends on your stats, but I doubt it'd be more than 10-15% for anyone in ToT gear), so if you prefer the nature of the healing added by crit you could definitely consider that.

  17. #237

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulstrike View Post
    When I get there... ...yes.

  19. #239
    I might go with that one simply because I struggle to dump hit as shadow, for healing purposes I still kinda favor the spirit. Mainly because I'm already using several pieces without spirit, because I actually favor a decent amount of spirit lately (using glyphed binding heal on most fights) and because more spirit gives me more room to customize my gem slots (admittedly the stat you gain in this case is crit, which I want, so that's more about spirit items in general)

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    I might go with that one simply because I struggle to dump hit as shadow, for healing purposes I still kinda favor the spirit. Mainly because I'm already using several pieces without spirit, because I actually favor a decent amount of spirit lately (using glyphed binding heal on most fights) and because more spirit gives me more room to customize my gem slots (admittedly the stat you gain in this case is crit, which I want, so that's more about spirit items in general)
    If it's like any other legendary, you can get two and not be forced to compromise between the two specs with one.

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