1. #1

    Breaking 4pc (normal)

    For some reason my rogue (501/502 ilvl) is simming higher with 3 pc normal T14 + 1pc normal T15 than it is with the 4 piece T14 normal set bonus (by about 1k).

    Was wondering if other rogues were getting this result as well.

    On a side note, just decided to go enchanting (gave up mining) and was wondering how you guys were using Synapse Springs with your abilities. Currently I have it macro'd with envenom / vendetta + Sblades.

  2. #2
    There's no way this is right. I can't remember the exact values but something like 2000 EP weighting springs to mind. To lose the 4 piece and not gain a 2pc you would have to have something like +500 agility and +400 in 2 other stats.

  3. #3
    Field Marshal Dieselol's Avatar
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    Synaps springs macro'd to Mutilate/dispatch/hemo/backstab/sinister strike. That way you get maximum usage - used every cd -> most dps.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by theherecy View Post
    There's no way this is right. I can't remember the exact values but something like 2000 EP weighting springs to mind. To lose the 4 piece and not gain a 2pc you would have to have something like +500 agility and +400 in 2 other stats.
    Tier 14 normal legs has - 1143 agi + 160 agi red socket + 60 agi bonus = 1363 agi total
    340 hit 890 haste 240 mast reforged from hit

    Tier 15 normal legs has - 1398 agi + 80 from purple + 80 from orange + 120 agi bonus = 1678 agi total
    973 haste 935 mast + 160 hit from purple + 160 mast from orange

    That's 315 agi increase along with 695 mast and 83 haste with a decrease of 180 hit. I purchased the shadopan trink so I was way above the hit cap with the t14 legs, the t15 legs incidentally has no hit so with it I am right at the hit cap.

    Simcraft has stat weigh being agi = 5.08, mast = 2.17, haste = 1.72, crit = 1.87. I'm not sure how it values hit after the 7.5% cap but it reads hit = 2.89, invhit = 0

    With those stat weighs in mind the t15 has an increase in ep of 1600.2 (from agi) + 1508.15 (from mast) + 142.76 (from haste - 520.2 (assuming hit is 2.89) = 2730.91

    3251.11 if hit is 0 after cap.

    I'm not sure what the ep is for the t14 4pc bonus.

  5. #5
    @Nekked
    I'm pretty sure those are NOT EP values. Now there is nothing wrong with using that to gauge upgrades, but the guy you quoted said 2000 EP, so if you don't also use EP, it is apples to oranges.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    @Nekked
    I'm pretty sure those are NOT EP values. Now there is nothing wrong with using that to gauge upgrades, but the guy you quoted said 2000 EP, so if you don't also use EP, it is apples to oranges.
    simcraft uses EP values based on DPS, not on AP. so to convert those to EP values based on AP, just divide by the DPS value of AP.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-15 at 10:26 PM ----------

    I've tried to copy the example using shadowcraft, and it's about 250-300 DPS less to break 4P. quick and dirty calculation though.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by nzall View Post
    simcraft uses EP values based on DPS, not on AP. so to convert those to EP values based on AP, just divide by the DPS value of AP.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-15 at 10:26 PM ----------

    I've tried to copy the example using shadowcraft, and it's about 250-300 DPS less to break 4P. quick and dirty calculation though.
    Thats not an EP. That is simply the dps value of a stat point. EP is a system where you find the equivalent value of all other stats in a single stat, or in other words, how many points of stat X are equivalent to 1 point of stat Y. EP doesn't have to be attack power (though that is the standard for rogues now) and I believe AEP (agility equivalence points) were the first ones to be used for us, but it does have to be set to be the equivalent of some stat.

    There isn't anything wrong with using the dps value of a stat point to weigh your items, but it isn't the same thing as using an EP, so if he wants to make use of the estimated 2k EP he was given for the 4pc, using dps value of a stat point isn't going to work without calculating the conversion.

  8. #8
    IMO, we should go back to AEP if using equivalence points. It's more meaningful to base stats on agility equivalence rather than attack power equivalence.

    For example: Do you gem agility or haste if agility is 2.736 and haste is 1.367. (hint: go agility), that said if you were to use AEP it'd be easier since at that point it would be 1.000 for agility and 0.499 for haste--it makes choosing gems much more evident without needing to do math in your head or on a calculator.

    Attack power equivalence is a relic from a day when gear actually had attack power.

  9. #9
    If you're upgrading a 483 tier piece with a 522 one, i'd say loosing the 4p bonus could be indeed beneficial, depending on what piece it is. A 496 with a 522 is a bit more difficult to believe, but i don't think that's impossible either.

  10. #10
    appreciate the responses. plugged my character into shadowcraft and had the same results. breaking 4pc normal (not lfr) by replacing the t15 legs gave me a 1k boost.

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