Thread: legen cloak

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  1. #1

    legen cloak

    hi am closing in on the legen cloak. i mainly play disc but i like shadow to. i heard rumors that the dps cloak are better than the healing cloak. but am not sure if its true. what should i take?

  2. #2
    Yes, the DPS cloak is far better for Disc than the healing cloak.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cartho View Post
    "Shaman are complaining again guys, shall we look at them a bit more closely? Maybe there's some truth in what these people are saying...."

    "Meh, let's just buff chain heal and healing rain then go have some lunch."

    "Okey dokey!"

  3. #3
    ok thx =) mate

  4. #4
    Get both anyways, if you can afford it. The healing cloak does have its place on stacked fights where the proc can actually hit people. Or where you may need the regen.

  5. #5
    Yes, definitely advisable to have both, especially for heading into WoD, where the extra Spirit and proc may be very advantageous for the first few dungeon runs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cartho View Post
    "Shaman are complaining again guys, shall we look at them a bit more closely? Maybe there's some truth in what these people are saying...."

    "Meh, let's just buff chain heal and healing rain then go have some lunch."

    "Okey dokey!"

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Shockeye View Post
    Yes, the DPS cloak is far better for Disc than the healing cloak.
    That's false.

    @OP: See this thread: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/13242344271

    Long answer: Math + Logic presented by several people in that link.
    Short answer: Whichever one is prettiest, the difference is irrelevant at this point in the tier unless you're doing the last four bosses in heroic SoO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nestar View Post
    Get both anyways, if you can afford it. The healing cloak does have its place on stacked fights where the proc can actually hit people. Or where you may need the regen.
    do you even understand how the proc works?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Larynx View Post
    That's false.

    @OP: See this thread: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/13242344271

    Long answer: Math + Logic presented by several people in that link.
    Short answer: Whichever one is prettiest, the difference is irrelevant at this point in the tier unless you're doing the last four bosses in heroic SoO.



    do you even understand how the proc works?
    Yup, sure do. Its a bonus to healing (does nothing for absorbs unless the absorb is based on the heal amount done, eg works for divine star DA, doesn't for atonement DA. Does nothing for PW:S, Only helps SS through the base heal) And while its active any overhealing you do is redirected to low players in range, Eg useless while you're spread out, potentially amazing when you're stacked. Again doesn't work with absorbs.

    The proc itself is unreliable due to it being rppm, Sure it's great if it works but you can't really count on it being active while you need it.

    Even with an increased proc chance on disc vs other healers, it doesn't even come close to compensating for it being absolute garbage on absorbs. The whole bad itemization situation is really what pushes it over the edge.

    Also, keep in mind that the spirit of chi'ji heal can not crit as its based on healing done. And having a heal crit does not make the overheal bigger (with the exception of any amplification, very small increase) More crit on gear does not make this proc better.
    Last edited by Nestar; 2014-07-01 at 09:03 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestar View Post
    Yup, sure do. Its a bonus to healing (does nothing for absorbs unless the absorb is based on the heal amount done, eg works for divine star DA, doesn't for atonement DA. Does nothing for PW:S, Only helps SS through the base heal) And while its active any overhealing you do is redirected to low players in range, Eg useless while you're spread out, potentially amazing when you're stacked. Again doesn't work with absorbs.

    The proc itself is unreliable due to it being rppm, Sure it's great if it works but you can't really count on it being active while you need it.

    Even with an increased proc chance on disc vs other healers, it doesn't even come close to compensating for it being absolute garbage on absorbs. The whole bad itemization situation is really what pushes it over the edge.

    Also, keep in mind that the spirit of chi'ji heal can not crit as its based on healing done. And having a heal crit does not make the overheal bigger (with the exception of any amplification, very small increase) More crit on gear does not make this proc better.
    If you obviously understand how the proc works, why did you say "The healing cloak does have its place on stacked fights where the proc can actually hit people."? The only thing I can think of is being able to fit more Divine Stars into the buff window than you could with Halos or Cascades, but that's a really roundabout way of saying it.

    All of your number statements were responded to in that thread, by the way.

    EDIT: I don't know if you realize this either since your answer is ambiguous, but it actually does effect absorbs. That's one of the largest benefits, tied with the huge uptime. 5% extra healing to all absorbs, 5% extra healing to all heals, and this will double dip multiplicative with DA.

    So assuming zero mastery for simplicity, we'd get something like this

    100(1.05) = 105 heal
    105 heal(1.05) = 110.25 absorb
    Total: 215.25

    Instead of the expected:

    100(1.05) = 105 heal + 105 absorb
    Total: 210.00

    The more mastery and more amplification (and therefore crit, as they scale linearly) the better the proc. Unlike the DPS cloak, the healing cloak scales with our gear. Therefore, your statement that crit does nothing is false. Crit does nothing for the redistribution effect other than amp trinkets, but that's only a part of the overall benefit of the cloak. Half of the benefit of the cloak is the 0.81 rpm. That's almost double the rpm of the other healers, and Disc benefits the most from the 5% heal bonus on top of that.
    Last edited by Larynx; 2014-07-01 at 09:21 PM.

  9. #9
    +1 to Larynx, can confirm that the healing increase does indeed work with absorbs, despite not saying so on the cloak. Had a fun evening with Derevka discussing that before our podcast a while back :<.

    But larynx, remember that dps cloaks do scale with gear - more crit = more of the hits will crit, more spellpower = bigger base dmg =P.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    +1 to Larynx, can confirm that the healing increase does indeed work with absorbs, despite not saying so on the cloak. Had a fun evening with Derevka discussing that before our podcast a while back :<.

    But larynx, remember that dps cloaks do scale with gear - more crit = more of the hits will crit, more spellpower = bigger base dmg =P.
    I'll admit I did ignore that...

    Does the DoT scale with haste? More haste -> More cleave ticks -> More ToF uptime -> More healing.

    That's the only healing scaling benefit I could see with the DPS cloak.

  11. #11
    Just checked some of my logs from last week, I see now it does work on absorbs. Uptime isn't really that big though, most of my runs with it were sub 15% with the first proc or two happening during opening burst when it's not needed at all.

    The rppm proc on the dps cloak scales with haste, so higher uptime on it due to that. Really only affects damage.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestar View Post
    Just checked some of my logs from last week, I see now it does work on absorbs. Uptime isn't really that big though, most of my runs with it were sub 15% with the first proc or two happening during opening burst when it's not needed at all.

    The rppm proc on the dps cloak scales with haste, so higher uptime on it due to that. Really only affects damage.
    Like I said, the math was already touched on in that thread. Numbers wise, even if logically X or Y doesn't work mechanically as well as it could, the healing cloak still comes out ahead.

    The healing cloak has a 0.81 ppm. This gives us about 13.5% uptime. Very roughly speaking, this is about a raw 1.5% healing increase (give or take 0.2%, looking at my logs it was closer to 1.75% for me from last night) just from the the +5% healing modifier while the buff is up. This accounts for the fact that the proc double dips with DA.

    So unless I did my math really wrong, the healing cloak even without the overheal redistribution is equivalent HPS to the caster cloak. The overheal can vary wildly, but using my logs from last night, across all 14H bosses the Spirit of Chi-Ji averaged 2.11%. At its lowest it was a little bit under 1% (usually for fights with very little sustained damage) and at its highest it was at 6% (very surprisingly for Sha of Pride).
    I don't know how accurate the 1.5% healing number is, my really quick estimate actually puts it closer to 2.0 to 2.5% healing increase. This actually puts it a few %s ahead of the caster cloak's better itemization.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also worth noting,

    Uptime isn't really that big though, most of my runs with it were sub 15% with the first proc or two happening during opening burst when it's not needed at all.
    You can game this quite easily on a few fights. Look at something like Garrosh. If your group stacks for Desecrate #1, just don't heal until a few seconds before the Desecrate lands. After all, all you're contributing is damage at that point. Divine Star the easiest way to force a proc.

    This also applies to any other proc in the game. In any sort of intermission or lull, your ICDs are still ticking. Get a tracker, and for something like Thok you'll always (usually?) have the int trinket proc up for Phase 1.
    Last edited by Larynx; 2014-07-01 at 09:55 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Larynx View Post
    I'll admit I did ignore that...

    Does the DoT scale with haste? More haste -> More cleave ticks -> More ToF uptime -> More healing.

    That's the only healing scaling benefit I could see with the DPS cloak.
    It doesn't as far as I know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nestar View Post
    Just checked some of my logs from last week, I see now it does work on absorbs. Uptime isn't really that big though, most of my runs with it were sub 15% with the first proc or two happening during opening burst when it's not needed at all.

    The rppm proc on the dps cloak scales with haste, so higher uptime on it due to that. Really only affects damage.
    Usually got me around 2-3% healing in a "real" enviroment when using it (hey, helps the ranks <.<). Of course, that's just the visible healing from the proc, doesn't cover the added absorb.
    It's also worth noting that the dps cloak increased procrate does indeed scale with haste (as haste doesn't otherwise affect it), while the healing cloak does not (as the faster you can cast, the more benefit you can reap from the proc).

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Aqira91 View Post
    hi am closing in on the legen cloak. i mainly play disc but i like shadow to. i heard rumors that the dps cloak are better than the healing cloak. but am not sure if its true. what should i take?
    If you want a short answer:
    - you want to heal more ? get the healer cloak
    - you want to dps more ? get the caster cloak

    There is obviously some fights where this is not true, like when there is a lot of adds and that makes the caster cloak better because it gives you a better ToF uptime. This also splits raid difficulties, because this dps upgrade is really interesting on 10man whereas it's not that relevent on 25.

  15. #15
    The best answer as to which cloak you should take is "both" especially as the efficacy of the cloak will depend hugely on the format you are raiding and the boss. In 25 man HC, the healing cloak is a pretty safe choice due to Divine Star being able to hit more people. On 10 man HC it is nice enough but the Spirit of Chi-Ji proc is massively underwhelming and to throw in some anecdotal numbers from some particularly sloppy Thok attempts last night, Spirit of Chi-Ji contributed 1.6 million of my healing on one of our 4 million health wipes.

    Contrastingly, on the attempt where we killed him I switched back to the DPS cloak which contributed 5 million (extra) damage and my healing output was roughly the same. On other fights, Essence of Yu'lon can reach over 10 million damage contributed while Spirit of Chi-Ji can come back totally empty. The 5% healing can be nice but what you should be taking depends on raid size and where your raid's weaknesses lie.

    In 10 man, the DPS cloak is a "safer" bet.
    In 25 man, the healing cloak is generally the right choice.

  16. #16
    btw exactly what spells can procc the legen meta gem för disc? can attonmewnt healing procc it?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Aqira91 View Post
    btw exactly what spells can procc the legen meta gem för disc? can attonmewnt healing procc it?
    Tons of spells can. Easier to list those who can't -
    Every damage spell apart from Penance (which is still considered a healing spell).

  18. #18
    tried out some lfr and it proccs alot. having a hard time to know what to use it on. i used it on shields on tanks.

  19. #19
    Interesting! I did not know the healing cloak proc affected absorbs. I was under the general impression that the extra damage boost the DPS cloak provides overrides the healing benefit of the healing cloak due to Atonement and the extra Crit being nice for DA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cartho View Post
    "Shaman are complaining again guys, shall we look at them a bit more closely? Maybe there's some truth in what these people are saying...."

    "Meh, let's just buff chain heal and healing rain then go have some lunch."

    "Okey dokey!"

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Shockeye View Post
    Interesting! I did not know the healing cloak proc affected absorbs. I was under the general impression that the extra damage boost the DPS cloak provides overrides the healing benefit of the healing cloak due to Atonement and the extra Crit being nice for DA.
    By extra damage do you mean Essence of Yu'lon, the proc? That damage doesn't contribute to Atonement healing - it would be way too good if it did! The two advantages for healing are the lack of Spirit and incidental cleave from Essence of Yu'lon allowing for a higher ToF uptime.

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