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  1. #61
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    04/23: Added talent options for the rest of the bosses!

  2. #62
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    Anyone finding it odd our healing haven't increased so much considering all gear upgrades? I mean, my first kill on Garalon n25 with partly blue gears, I did 106k hps & Similar numbers on Empress hc etc. It's quite rare you reach those numbers a whole tier later with 30+ ilvls and 4k more spirit (and I promise I use every drop of mana). Sure, some fights are phased with periods of low dmg and AoE bursts. I just find it weird, but it probably has a lot to do with the fact absorbs are so strong and I did not raid with a Disc back then.

    I see now as we progress on Iron hc this might be changing, and I can imagine Twins being a better design for Hpriests, though.

    I wanted to check these numbers on raidbots, and it goes like this (top 100 HPS);

    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Jin'rokh_...00000000111111 (Disc 106k hps, Holy 89)

    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Horridon/...00000000111111 (Disc 81, Holy 36)

    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Horridon/...00000000111111 (Disc 106, Holy 99)

    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Tortos/25...00000000111111 (Disc 119, Holy 155)

    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Megaera/2...00000000111111 (Disc 105, Holy 92)

    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Ji-Kun/25...00000000111111 (Disc 80, Holy 53)

    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Durumu_th...00000000111111 (Disc 94, Holy 90)

    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Primordiu...00000000111111 (Disc 114, Holy 99)

    I don't want to go further than that since there are so few logs yet from the other bosses, but I see a trend that Disc has increased their output by a lot, while Holy really has not overall. I feel were lagging behind as we usually do in expansions/tiers.

    I know changes are coming in 5.3 and we should all wait and see. It will be interesting to see the satistics after a few weeks into 5.3.


    OPS! Pls Mod move this to "State of Holy" Wrong thread!
    Last edited by nobodysbaby; 2013-05-02 at 11:03 AM.

  3. #63
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    Well, it's based on the fact that Holy scales horribly compared to other classes. Assuming tuning is proper, we can dominate early tiers, not so much later. Also, fuck absorbs.

  4. #64
    Brewmaster ramennoodleking's Avatar
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    Aye, the more haste everyone gets, the faster heals go out. Same with crit and mastery, other classes just start healing more. They all start to encroach on our mastery. You can see echo drop off as your raid's ilvl increases. Solution to that is usually to get PoH cast time down as low as possible, but absorbs are playing out so strong and haste doesn't offer benefits to practically everything else we cast during heavy AoE. Not to mention our spirit crutch.

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  5. #65
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    When the most dedicated Hpriests I know of are critisizing the specc/saying other healers are too good, you know something should be done. We did tolerate a lot already, everything from Disc/other healers overshadow our specc to stupid mechanics such as Chakra, groupbased AoE healing, nearly worthless spells in our toolkit and flaws in important spells, such as GS.

    Ghostcrawler stated dps should come at cost of healing, yet we see Disc do MORE output than Holy overall.

    The nerf to Attonment & IH is pretty insignificant and won't help us much. The buff to Hymn is not what we needed, even though I like it to scale better from 10-->25. I get to hear "You should specc Disc" WAY too often during our raids, and I am getting very sick of it. We have a strong AoE capability "when it matters" (hence buffing Hymn kinda makes no sense), but that is our ONLY strength as I see it, but there are other healers who can do that as well who have a better overall toolkit/utility/manamanagement.

    With the buff to resto druids in 5.3 and the recent buffs to shamans our role will be/is even weaker I am afraid, but I fully agree druids needed this, but we have been pretty much untouched since WotLK even though Hpri have a lot of issues and haven't been a popular specc in a very long time. It's getting very frustrating hoping for changes every darn patch but not recieving attention.

    There, I said it. I feel a little better now.

  6. #66
    Brewmaster ramennoodleking's Avatar
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    I don't know about that. Resto Druid in my raid is phenomenol, and his output is very, very good, especially since getting the metas. I used to marginally beat him as holy on H Tortos, but now I can barely keep up. Even on H Iron Quon, during the heavy AoE present in the first phase, I'm pushing 130-155k hps as disc during the "oh shit" moments and he is keeping right up along with me. Resto Druid, when well played, is not in a terrible spot and does practically what an h priest does. That's what's scary. Is that holy priests may further be overshadowed.

    Another thing I'd like to point out is that the meta has increased effect for other classes. A buddy of mine progressing well through H ToT says he is down to 4k spirit with the meta as a monk. My resto Druid buddy already needed far less spirit than me before he got his meta. Now it's worse. It definitely is great for Holy Priests, but we still have to sacrifice far more secondaries to spirit than any other healer.

    Note: 10 man perspective.
    Last edited by ramennoodleking; 2013-05-03 at 11:44 AM.

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  7. #67
    Brewmaster ramennoodleking's Avatar
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    This is the first tier I've felt overwhelmingly pressured to play disc on nearly every progression fight. I would always in the past bow to disc when it had a clear advantage, but usually managed to do at least half the fights as holy. But this tier, not even close.

    I don't often complain, but this shit is getting ridiculous.

    It's hard to say no to Yoo-Hoo chocolate drinks...the name literally beckons.
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  8. #68
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    Im afraid we dont have many supporters anymore Noodle, its gone too far and too long, most dedicated hpriests rerolled or respecced or simply quit I guess. How many % of role does holy have in 10s these days? 2? Seems most gave up the struggle unfortunatly.

    Its a shame not more players saw this coming a long time ago.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by ramennoodleking View Post
    This is the first tier I've felt overwhelmingly pressured to play disc on nearly every progression fight. I would always in the past bow to disc when it had a clear advantage, but usually managed to do at least half the fights as holy. But this tier, not even close.

    I don't often complain, but this shit is getting ridiculous.
    This is just sad to read. So holy is pretty much dead in 10s?

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-06 at 02:10 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by nobodysbaby View Post
    A

    I know changes are coming in 5.3 and we should all wait and see. It will be interesting to see the satistics after a few weeks into 5.3.
    Which changes? The buff to DH? That's only for 25m, where holy is doing ok compared to 10m where its the absolute worst healing spec in the game. The fact that Chakra is the same idiotic mechanic that its been on Cata is a disgrace, it should have been long removed/changed by now so we can at least help with tank healing here and there (god forbid, you wanna help with both AoE and tank healing at the same time? *shock*). Blizzard doesn't care and quite franky the only thing that keeps me playing this game at this point is my guild buddies. Whenever that's over, I'm out.

  10. #70
    Brewmaster ramennoodleking's Avatar
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    What I'm saying is that despite my increase in gear, holy isn't scaling particularly well. I wouldn't say it isn't viable to play in 10s as you can still pump out very good numbers, but the fact that you are capable of playing disc just leaves you weighing out the strengths of disc in 10s to your personal desire to remain holy. And it's honestly not really justified in my experience (so far) to play holy on any progression fight I've been in except Tortos.

    It's hard to say no to Yoo-Hoo chocolate drinks...the name literally beckons.
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  11. #71
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blachshma View Post
    This is just sad to read. So holy is pretty much dead in 10s?

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-06 at 02:10 PM ----------



    Which changes? The buff to DH? That's only for 25m, where holy is doing ok compared to 10m where its the absolute worst healing spec in the game. The fact that Chakra is the same idiotic mechanic that its been on Cata is a disgrace, it should have been long removed/changed by now so we can at least help with tank healing here and there (god forbid, you wanna help with both AoE and tank healing at the same time? *shock*). Blizzard doesn't care and quite franky the only thing that keeps me playing this game at this point is my guild buddies. Whenever that's over, I'm out.
    I was mostly thinking of the nerf to Disc, but I doubt it will make any difference at all to the popuarity of Holy.

  12. #72
    Just wondering as a Holy Priest to best utilise Synapse Springs ? Should I macro into Prayer of mending or save it as a seperate bind to use for burst healing phases. thank you.

  13. #73
    Brewmaster ramennoodleking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ndogg View Post
    Just wondering as a Holy Priest to best utilise Synapse Springs ? Should I macro into Prayer of mending or save it as a seperate bind to use for burst healing phases. thank you.
    Honestly, unless it procs spirit (and I'm fairly certain it doesn't, though I havnt actively had a toon with Engineering since early Cata) then it really won't make huge amounts of difference. It's an intellect proc right? In which case best to use for burst healing and as a minor cooldown to heal the raid quickly. In the grand scheme of things it will be relatively trivial for you as holy.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-16 at 02:11 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by nobodysbaby View Post
    Im afraid we dont have many supporters anymore Noodle, its gone too far and too long, most dedicated hpriests rerolled or respecced or simply quit I guess. How many % of role does holy have in 10s these days? 2? Seems most gave up the struggle unfortunatly.

    Its a shame not more players saw this coming a long time ago.
    It's been a slow but gradual progression. And yea it's pretty sad. I still maintain holy was perfectly fine during Cata, but the window was closing as more guilds clamored for discs utility through atonement, shielding, and PW:B/PS (especially when GS was mitigated by mechanics such as the tentacle crush on madness).

    Enter Mists where our early successes were misinterpreted by how well Holy usually comes right out the gate of a new expac, only to quickly be supplanted by Spirit Shell and, to a lesser degree, atonement. Now with ToT not only are we scaling badly with gear but Atonement dps/healing coupled with a still strong Spirit Shell and cheaper PW:S's and the writing on the wall doesn't look so foreign.

    I'm sure a holy priest (in tens) can still help a guild progress and clear ToT on heroic. But you have to question whether doing so is at even the smallest expense of your guilds progression. When you look at it from that perspective there is little reason to be anything but disc for the majority of ToT. Too much utility makes disc a clear front runner.
    Last edited by ramennoodleking; 2013-05-16 at 02:14 PM.

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  14. #74
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    Man... with lots of meta procs Holy just destroys everyone. On Heroic Lei Shen I was miles ahead on most attempts without a Disc Priest... and even still significantly up there WITH one. Just shows you that they restrict Holy via mana regen. I actually had someone in my stream ask "geeze does Holy ever run out of mana?"...I was severely taken aback, haha.

    Also, Solace is actually proving to be quite decent, at least on Lei Shen.

    As for Synapse Springs... I just have it macroed into CoH, PoM, Flash Heal, Greater Heal. It's not something I ever really worry about. I'm not good with micromanaging.

  15. #75
    Brewmaster ramennoodleking's Avatar
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    Yea but I think you are looking through the glasses of 25 man. It's just a whole different world in 10s. Discs power is lost a little to 25s while 25s play to Holy's strengths.

    Though I do agree, if you get some wicked good meta procs and have adequate spirit you can really do some damage. Interesting about Solace though, I considered trying it before I virtually had to switch to Disc for every progression fight so far except Tortos.

    It's hard to say no to Yoo-Hoo chocolate drinks...the name literally beckons.
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  16. #76
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    I know you are talking about 10s. I am talking about 25s. I was just making a comment, not quoting you. :P

  17. #77
    Stood in the Fire PhillieB's Avatar
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    I'm not so sure I agree with all this doom and gloom. It's a whole different ballgame with HC progression, I know, I've been there before and the same min/maxxing isn't really necessary when like me doing 10s normal where healing is rarely an issue TBH.

    But mana has always been the throttle to holy's HPS burst but between the meta + horridon trinket + shado-pan, I really don't feel that starved.

  18. #78
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhillieB View Post
    I'm not so sure I agree with all this doom and gloom. It's a whole different ballgame with HC progression, I know, I've been there before and the same min/maxxing isn't really necessary when like me doing 10s normal where healing is rarely an issue TBH.

    But mana has always been the throttle to holy's HPS burst but between the meta + horridon trinket + shado-pan, I really don't feel that starved.
    Until those attempts with shit RNG. On H Lei Shen I've had attempts where I reach P2 with 100% mana and attempts with 10% mana with no real change in healing requirement lol.

  19. #79
    Brewmaster ramennoodleking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhillieB View Post
    I'm not so sure I agree with all this doom and gloom. It's a whole different ballgame with HC progression, I know, I've been there before and the same min/maxxing isn't really necessary when like me doing 10s normal where healing is rarely an issue TBH.

    But mana has always been the throttle to holy's HPS burst but between the meta + horridon trinket + shado-pan, I really don't feel that starved.
    Yea I'd certainly agree that it matters far less on normals. Heck, get a full raid of Druids and I'm sure you could steamroll normals. I think that all classes and specs are perfectly fine for normals, in fact. But during heroic progression you can't afford to do that. You just end up pushing progression times longer on a boss than necessary.

    And about mana, I've been in instances as holy where I am absolutely trucking along, and others where I wonder if I unequipped half my gear.

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  20. #80
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramennoodleking View Post
    And about mana, I've been in instances as holy where I am absolutely trucking along, and others where I wonder if I unequipped half my gear.
    I literally had to check my durability one attempt haha

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