Ret Ok? Far from it. Yes this is my Rant.

[Doublebuble]

262k Burst from Elemental Shaman.
396k+ (My total Hp-396k/64.xx% Resil) Burst With Hots Rolling on myself, a.k.a. Globaled by a frost mage.
Feared/Stunned/Silenced to death by all warlock specs.
Spam Stun/Silence to death by Fire Mages.
Rogues....100-0% my Hp after they force trinket and reset.
Warriors Stun/Disarm/Fear for duration of my cool downs
Monks Out heal, out burst and sustain damage way better than ret, out stun/incapacitate
( No Matter how good the ret is, in best gear vs best gear or any gear equivalent or even with a healer in worse gear the ret cannot kill a single healer in this game)All Hunter Specs are un-killable to ret.

Why does Judgement do 17k damage on a 6 second cooldown when -FELFLAME-Deals 762 to 841 (+ 75% of SpellPower) Shadowflame damage to an enemy and increases the duration of Corruption by 6 sec. Which is spammable on my destruction lock in 80% blues and it's doing 15k a pop.

Why Does hammer of Wrath do 19k Damage with a 5 second cooldown when -Instant cast SHADOWBURN-
Requires Warlock (Destruction)
Requires level 47

Instantly blasts the target for (3365 ( + 350% of SpellPower) * (1.24)) Shadow damage. Only usable on enemies that have less than 20% health.
Which is 121k BASE Damage on My Warlock in 80% Blues.

Rogues are spamming a ranged attack that Rets buffed heals cant even Survive.

These are just the first and most frustrating things that come to mind, that make me vent in frustration. I don't know where to start correctly with this any help would be appreciated. As a 8 Year Retadin I'm so tired of seriously being outclassed by other specs it's just ridiculous and pure laziness by developers.

[AeneasBK]

And then Vanguards makes us all look bad

[Reith]

And then Vanguards makes us all look bad

Well he also has really good players playing with him all the time as well, so there's that.

[ZeroEdgeir]

Hammer of Wrath costs a GCD and GENERATES Holy Power
Shadowburn costs a GCD AND a Burning Ember (of which a Warlock can have at most 4).

One costs time and makes resources. One costs time and resources.

[Doublebuble]

Hammer of Wrath costs a GCD and GENERATES Holy Power
Shadowburn costs a GCD AND a Burning Ember (of which a Warlock can have at most 4).

One costs time and makes resources. One costs time and resources.

So when Shadowburn kills target and at 120k dmg in blues it nearly always does. it Generates two Resources. even if it didn't kill and someone healed you spamming 4 Shadowburns IF they could...just because shadowburn costs a resource it should have no global cooldown and do over 100k damage more than hammer of wrath? Potentially... 480k from 4 spammed shadowburns in mainly blues on MY lock, in the time I'd get off 1 hammer of wrath for 19k waiting for the global to reset on my ret?

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

So when Shadowburn kills target and at 120k dmg in blues it nearly always does. it Generates two Resources. even if it didn't kill and someone healed you spamming 4 Shadowburns IF they could...just because shadowburn costs a resource it should have no global cooldown and do over 100k damage more than hammer of wrath? Potentially... 480k from 4 spammed shadowburns in mainly blues on MY lock, in the time I'd get off 1 hammer of wrath for 19k waiting for the global to reset on my ret?

Isn't Shadowburn an execute-range-only spell?

[Doublebuble]

Isn't Shadowburn an execute-range-only spell?

Yes and It's being Compared to Rets Hammer of Wrath.

[Valedus]

The only Execute weaker than Ret's is a Monks, in a PvP scenario. It's because Wings allows the use of it, honestly.

[Palatinus]

Hammer of Wrath costs a GCD and GENERATES Holy Power
Shadowburn costs a GCD AND a Burning Ember (of which a Warlock can have at most 4).

One costs time and makes resources. One costs time and resources.

Pretty sure every ret would trade HoW costing holy power but gaining 100k damage or w.e. Especially if it gave back a holy power if the target dies. Jk cant do that due to it being usable with wings like we cant have a free snare due to hof/eman or better utility because of bubblez and plate. Oh yeah and the new one, can't be as competitive as other dps specs because there are too many rets.

[Afarensis]

lol amazing, do you have any more apples you'd like to compare to oranges, OP?

[Regen]

Comparing the two abilities is a crazy thing and anyone should see that but to add my own little input I think it would greatly do justice to mention that burning embers are vastly harder than a GCD to acquire. I mean, shadow burn costs something that takes 10 casts of another spell to build up, hammer of wrath just costs you a GCD so naturally SB should deal more damage. I don't think anyone would argue that SB shouldn't do more damage, all things considered. Lets say you spam it 4 times, and I hit 4 HoWs but the target, with a short CD or healer or whatever lived. Now what? Your lock has no resources and it's back to filler spells, while I'm going to hit another 4. Obviously this scenario where a target is being executed but living and staying under 20% might not play out so identically but we seem to have given up on perfection and common sense very early in the thread.

And 19k per HoW sounds fairly low to me but I don't pay huge attention to that.

And to note: HoW should never cost holy power unless its given enough damage to be stronger than TV, which they'd never do.

[Revvo]

The reason that ret's execute hits so little is because it's balanced around being used during wings. No other class can use their execute like that. Which is why it hits like dick outside of wings.

[Regen]

And there's that. We are the only class that can use their execute while not executing. I think just because of the resource cost and what it takes to get one justifies it completely. Even though i would like it to hit harder I understand why it doesn't.

[Faesroll]

Yeah I remember when warriors had their former sudden death talent allowing them to use execute regardless of enemy's HP, most of the strats against warriors looked something like "Keep warrior slowed and cc'd and keep an eye out for sudden death"

[nyc81991]

The reason that ret's execute hits so little is because it's balanced around being used during wings. No other class can use their execute like that. Which is why it hits like dick outside of wings.

True, but there is no reason why it couldn't hit harder when the target is actually under 20% health.

[Froggi]

19k Hammer of Wrath does sound low, assuming you are talking target dummy/PVE damage values? I mean it could hit for that if you are hitting a pvp geared player and you have very little/no pvp power.

Mine hits in the 50k range during wings, but that is on a PVE mob. And my gear isn't uber fantastic.

[Matrlx]

The execute Dmg seems very Low for Ret pala without wings , i dont wanna compare it to Warrior's or other classes , but i think against full Tyrannical Ret paladin will struggle again and his dmg could be lower

[Solidsteel]

Reroll
10chars

Infracted. If you have nothing constructive to contribute, don't post. ~Fhi

[Merie]

Ret finisher during wings:eh, not the most amazing. Ok though, I guess.
Ret finisher in any other scenario: awful

Seems like a piss poor finisher if it's only saving grace is not doing laughable damage when you have wings up. When those things are getting spell stealed you're just a paladin with a plain bad finisher.

[Calimon-ZJ]

Ret finisher during wings:eh, not the most amazing. Ok though, I guess.
Ret finisher in any other scenario: awful

Seems like a piss poor finisher if it's only saving grace is not doing laughable damage when you have wings up. When those things are getting spell stealed you're just a paladin with a plain bad finisher.

when what is getting stolen? wings? you can't.