Disc: Crit > Mastery?

[Noradin]

If you have very very high amounts of it then it makes you more reliable - or if you have high haste and fast spells, but that would be 'cheating' since it would be the haste and not the crit that made the random absorbs more reliable.

If you want to be reliable (predictable) the stats to go to are mastery and haste, crit is inherently unreliable, just a little less so for us than for other healers.

[Rorschachs]

Crit + mastery build relies on crits mostly to make that mastery worth it. But you won't be able to crit as much as you would with a crit build so it's a gamble. I was comparing crit/mastery to crit by the way otherwise obviously crit is RNG and is not as reliable as other stats.

[Chimaera]

Crit + mastery build relies on crits mostly to make that mastery worth it. But you won't be able to crit as much as you would with a crit build so it's a gamble. I was comparing crit/mastery to crit by the way otherwise obviously crit is RNG and is not as reliable as other stats.

Actually, crit + mastery builds are simply using the feedback from each stat increasing the value of the other. Mastery has value all on its own even without crit.

[Deleted]

I dont understand why people are so in love with crit for atonement, I would say haste and mastery together with high int, outpreform crit/mastery for a few reasons.

1. Mastery increases your raw atonement healing.
2. During Archangel your atonement healing gets absurdly high with mastery.
3. After the SS nerf haste is rather nice for building descent shells on the raid.
4. Real-ppm trinkets scale with haste
5. Aegis on non tanks often goes to waste.
6. Crit will always be rng mastery int and haste are all static and reliable stats.
7. Inner focus gets stronger.
8. Easier to manage rapture procs.

I recommend this tier to use 2xint trinkets (Horridon + Lei shen), 11-13k spirit, 7.15% haste -> int -> mastery -> crit.

Try it and get mindblown =)

Sincerly yours, Gottan

[Deleted]

I'm not sure what bosses you're raiding, but DA's on raids are more than often not wasted with the random dmg going on during most bosses.

Even though mastery does increase your flat healing by a decent amount, the true strength of mastery still (imo) lies within the increased absorbs, which you still need crit for. Thus people are recommending you balance out crit with mastery, rather than relying purely on mastery.

I'm quite happy with trying to have ~5% more crit over mastery atm, tbh I'm not certain it's statistically better than stacking mastery, but I tend to heal quite atonement heavily as I've rerolled from shadow and it just seems suitable for me.

[Deleted]

Yeah there is not a huge difference between mastery and crit, but if you want higher steady output "on demand" and stronger utlility cds, i would say haste/mastery beats crit/mastery. Inner focus is another example, the more mastery you get the stronger it gets.

I can also state an example how Archangel scales with mastery. Lets say you have 20% increased healing from mastery raidbuffed.
You cast a penance offensivly ticking for 40k -> 40k -> 40k. The outcome of atonement would be 48k -> 48k -> 48k. (40 * 1.2)
With a 5 stack archangel up the outcome would be 60k -> 60k -> 60k (48 * 1.25)
Lets say we had 7.15% additional haste apart from raid buff so penance channel = ~1.78s
hps without aa= ~80.9k (raw healing assuming no crits)
hps with AA= ~101k (raw healing assuming no crits)


Now lets do the same but with lower mastery lets say 10% increased healing and 20% increased absorbs. 100% crit and 3% increased dmg/healing meta.

You cast a penance offensivly ticking for 40k -> 40k -> 40k. The outcome of atonement would be 45.3k -> 45.3k -> 45.3k. (40 * 1.1 * 1.03)
With a 5 stack archangel up the outcome would be 56.6k -> 56.6k -> 56.6k (45.3 * 1.25)
Lets say we had 0% additional haste apart from raid buff so penance channel = ~1.9s
hps without aa= ~71.5k (raw healing assuming 100% crits)
hps with AA= ~89.3k (raw healing assuming 100% crits)

As you can see from the calculations above, the raw healing output will always be higher running haste/mastery, what's hard taking in consideration is the unused aegis. However with more haste you cast more spells. Even if your crit is lower you will still have more spells that have a chance to crit, even if the chance is lower.

This calculation was made purely based on penance though, if you would take a spell such as smite, the difference wouldnt be as big.

Sincerly yours, Gottan

[Anprionsa]

So then I have a question for everyone here.

If you have seen WoL (http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...f_Thunder/hps/), in the 25MH one of the top disc priests (from the guild Vigil) looking at his stats (25% Mastery, 13% Crit, 6.5% Haste, about 20k int, 29k SP and 13.5k spirit) is kicking butt, not just on the logs, but is about 20k more than the second disc priest in his group and yet he has been consistently the top ranked in the logs.

Now the second disc priest in the group has the following stats (19% mastery, 20% crit, 3.2% haste, about 20k int, 27k SP, and 12.5k Spirit)

There is a 3ilvl difference in, they both have the same trinkets (Horridon's and Spirit of the sun). The top example gems almost entirely spirit, while the other a mix of spirit crit gems.

There is almost a 20-40k difference on every fight. Also looking at spell use differences as well.

In fact looking at other priests there, none of them have crit > mastery, but they all have over 12.5k spirit (some as high as 15k).

[Dorfie]

Tried out crit build tonight on H Horridon. Had about 26% crit, 27% mastery and 11% haste full raid buffed. Felt pretty good, my heals were about 50% atonement, 25% DA, 15% PW:S, 10% mixed stuff (SS, cascade, POM). Was surprised DA did so much.

[Markle]

I usually run a haste heavy build for 10man and i am having a lot of success healing as disc that way. So long as you are efficient with you mana CDs and keep a touch more spirit than normal this build puts out some serious numbers and quickly. I could see that this set-up wouldnt work well in 25 man but in 10s I love it!

[Deleted]

Koawinter: You kind of answered your own question there somewhat. They have different spell usage, which in itself will account for a big difference.

Stacking spirit will allow you to eventually "nonstop cast" something, be it straight healing, shielding or atonement.

Ceddya has around 1k more spirit to begin with, not sure how much more PW'S spamming that allows him to do over the other priest, but that seems to account for most of the difference in their healing. Might be purely a difference in playing styles, but the amount of SS usage And Shields is highly noticable.

It would be interesting to see whether the mastery is causing the healing difference, or if it purely is the fact Ceddya is a better player utilizing the skills of a disc better (which wouldnt surprise me seeing as the other disc seems to play as holy occasionally too).

[Deleted]

What do you guys feel about a crit/haste build combined with low spirit with focus on atonement healing?

[Deleted]

What do you guys feel about a crit/haste build combined with low spirit with focus on atonement healing?

I would not recomend it, I would suggest haste/mastery for any fight where you can atonement alot.

Only time i would go haste/crit is if my dps is needed.

[Anprionsa]

They actually both play holy as well.

He did use twice as many shields and about twice as much atonement, but he used holy fire and smite a combined 14 times in the fight, the majority of his atonement was penance (which I can't tell if it was the 4p or not, it appears it was not though). But he also wasn't spamming PW:S because I was trying to follow this earlier on H Jin and my disc counterpart did 50 something in 2 pools and I did about 20. So he wasn't spamming them because if he was it would be around 100 over the course of the fight.

Edit: I'm really seeing a trend towards high spirit for those in Heroics with mastery over crit. And I was convinced that crit was the way to go. I'm going to try to move over for a bit and see where it leads me.

[Deleted]

They actually both play holy as well.

He did use twice as many shields and about twice as much atonement, but he used holy fire and smite a combined 14 times in the fight, the majority of his atonement was penance (which I can't tell if it was the 4p or not, it appears it was not though). But he also wasn't spamming PW:S because I was trying to follow this earlier on H Jin and my disc counterpart did 50 something in 2 pools and I did about 20. So he wasn't spamming them because if he was it would be around 100 over the course of the fight.

Edit: I'm really seeing a trend towards high spirit for those in Heroics with mastery over crit. And I was convinced that crit was the way to go. I'm going to try to move over for a bit and see where it leads me.

I really recomend trying a heavy mastery build, its better than many thinks, i ahve a few high ranked logs myself, and ive been running it since patch, i've tried crit for one raid, but i didnt manage to push the same number with crit.

[HPLathus]

So then I have a question for everyone here.

If you have seen WoL (http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...f_Thunder/hps/), in the 25MH one of the top disc priests (from the guild Vigil) looking at his stats (25% Mastery, 13% Crit, 6.5% Haste, about 20k int, 29k SP and 13.5k spirit) is kicking butt, not just on the logs, but is about 20k more than the second disc priest in his group and yet he has been consistently the top ranked in the logs.

Now the second disc priest in the group has the following stats (19% mastery, 20% crit, 3.2% haste, about 20k int, 27k SP, and 12.5k Spirit)

There is a 3ilvl difference in, they both have the same trinkets (Horridon's and Spirit of the sun). The top example gems almost entirely spirit, while the other a mix of spirit crit gems.

There is almost a 20-40k difference on every fight. Also looking at spell use differences as well.

In fact looking at other priests there, none of them have crit > mastery, but they all have over 12.5k spirit (some as high as 15k).

I think a crit heavy build and mastery build have different spell priorities at times.

Crit is going to have a larger emphasis on atonment IMO

Mastery is going to have a higher emphasis on SS/PW:S IMO



I think both are 100% viable whatever way you choose, if its mastery = crit or crit > mastery or mastery > crit


Whatever fits your flavor best, do it at this point.

[Deleted]

I really recomend trying a heavy mastery build, its better than many thinks, i ahve a few high ranked logs myself, and ive been running it since patch, i've tried crit for one raid, but i didnt manage to push the same number with crit.

Then again I've gone full crit, have 13 ilevels lower than you and have ranked higher on at least 4 bosses on my first time ever on said bosses.

What's been said before sounds about right in that it's pretty situational which one is "better". Higher mastery will no doubt benefit more if you base your healing style purely around Shielding / preventing dmg. Higher crit seems to work out for "raw healing" through atonement, which is what I prefer, only using SS when I know significant damage is incoming.

[Deleted]

What do you guys feel about a crit/haste build combined with low spirit with focus on atonement healing?

I would recommend heavy crit gear/reforging with int gems if so, you still need some spirit (and stacking significant amount of haste will increase that requirement, and not help your hf/penance cds). Works quite well, especially on 3 healer fights.

[Sakamae]

...Edit: I'm really seeing a trend towards high spirit for those in Heroics with mastery over crit. And I was convinced that crit was the way to go. I'm going to try to move over for a bit and see where it leads me.

I think the difference here really is 10 man versus 25 man. We have people talking about stats they are using in both, and the spell usage is really different between the two. Crit heavy builds seem to work well in 10 man due to the high amount of atonement healing. Mastery heavy builds seem to work well in 25 man due to the increased absorb usage. It really comes down to personal playstyle and spell usage. I'm a spriest convert, so I, like Tenaru, prefer crit for 10 man, since I'm doing a lot of atonement. It works well for me and my group, but might not work well for others.

[Deleted]

Ironically I of course have to point out I play in a 25man guild and prefer crit nevertheless
Though a lot of my rationalizing there is probably, like Sakame mentioned, due to me having played Shadow before this patch as my MS too.

[Skandulous]

If your not Crit stacking and doing Atonement only then you really are gimping your raid period end of story.