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  1. #1

    Where have all the Raiders Gone?

    At the height of Cata my guild had 4 raid groups, a Saturday alt run and a Sunday/Monday RBG team. Now we are having trouble fielding teams on our evening and late night groups. When MoP dropped we had a wealth of players that were frothing at the mouth for a chance to raid. Literally 40+ players on everyday. We figured Fielding 1 team wouldn't be an issue but fielding 3 teams might be difficult. With in the first 3 months we were one of many guilds endlessly spamming trade to find 1 more dps or 1 more healer for raid. I have seen some of the other guilds that we used to compete with going through the same issues.

    My main reasoning in posting this is I'd like to know from players, guilds and realms outside of my own if the number of actual people raiding is way down. I wish there was a way to see how many players are actively participating in non-lfr raids on a realm.

    Is the only option left to leave mid to low pop realms all together. Maybe join the masses on the high pop realms along with the que time to play?

  2. #2
    I am Murloc! Airwaves's Avatar
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    What's the point? I raided for 7 years but come mop I can see all the content and "raid" when I feel like it in lfr. But! The main reason I stopped raiding was the fact that bosses are starting to get very boring. Reusing old raid mechanics from fights in years past is not fun. Doing a boss that is doing the same move with a different name that a boss did 4 years ago is bullshit.
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  3. #3
    Yes the number of raiders is down significantly.
    This is an easily verifiable fact. Click on each tier and see how the overall number of guilds has shrunk from previous tiers.

    http://www.wowprogress.com/

    My realm went from 171 guilds in cata to 70 guilds in MoP. There's currently only 23 guilds raiding.
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  4. #4
    The Lightbringer Mandible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    What's the point? I raided for 7 years but come mop I can see all the content and "raid" when I feel like it in lfr. But! The main reason I stopped raiding was the fact that bosses are starting to get very boring. Reusing old raid mechanics from fights in years past is not fun. Doing a boss that is doing the same move with a different name that a boss did 4 years ago is bullshit.
    This, and hardly any reason to be in a guild as it is now as well. Obviously doesn't help anything if you are on a mid to low populated side of a server (and especially not of the pther sider is highly populated on a pvp server).
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  5. #5
    Epic! dacoolist's Avatar
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    Game is 8.5 years old,
    and I believe (could just be me obviously)
    - a lot more folks are kicking back, and or trying out something different like Pvp.

    I'm liking PVP a lot compared to always having to be there 2 nights a week every week no matter what.

    I'm able to Pvp anytime I want, on my schedule.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Galaddriel View Post
    Yes the number of raiders is down significantly.
    This is an easily verifiable fact. Click on each tier and see how the overall number of guilds has shrunk from previous tiers.

    http://www.wowprogress.com/

    My realm went from 171 guilds in cata to 70 guilds in MoP. There's currently only 23 guilds raiding.

    Wowprogress shows ~72k guilds raided during t11, ~60k during t12, ~60k during t13, ~40k during t14.

    So maybe less people raid normal modes, but I dare to say that way more than people consisting those 30k guilds use raid finder constantly.

  7. #7
    The two main reasons I can think of is:
    LFR gives a better option to people who where raiding normals only because it was the only raiding option they had.
    Normal modes are very difficult, to the point where alot of guilds are unable to do them.

  8. #8
    Scarab Lord Gimlix's Avatar
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    I think the game has more PvE''rs then few yearsa go, since LFR is raiding to.

    And i think there were alot of casuals actually raiding in cata because cata raiding was pretty damn easy.

    I know alot of people who used to raid in cata but hate to raid in MoP not because it's bad but to hard for them, i think raiding is doing fine as it is.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Lionspride View Post
    I think the game has more PvE''rs then few yearsa go, since LFR is raiding to.

    And i think there were alot of casuals actually raiding in cata because cata raiding was pretty damn easy.

    I know alot of people who used to raid in cata but hate to raid in MoP not because it's bad but to hard for them, i think raiding is doing fine as it is.
    Well, you could change that to "DS raiding was easy" due to the quick nature of the rising boss nerf. BWD/Bot and Firelands were still pretty challenging.

    I would just wager that less people are playing every day, due to just finally giving up on the game. There's sure no way they would go UP in raiding numbers by this point.

  10. #10
    LFR has drastically reduced the raiding pool.

    I know and have heard of a bunch of people who are happy with LFR as their endgame, just for the simple fact that they don't have to deal with guilds and schedules, etc.

    Only people left raiding, these days, are those who actually enjoy the playstyle of it.

    Before LFR the raiding pool had a lot of people who "put up with" raiding in order to see content/get gear/etc. Now that they don't have to, they don't. And all those people are no longer in the raiding pool.
    Last edited by spectrefax; 2013-03-16 at 10:16 PM.

  11. #11
    Scarab Lord Gimlix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    Well, you could change that to "DS raiding was easy" due to the quick nature of the rising boss nerf. BWD/Bot and Firelands were still pretty challenging.

    I would just wager that less people are playing every day, due to just finally giving up on the game. There's sure no way they would go UP in raiding numbers by this point.
    FL wasn't as hard either, i joined a PUG and i had myself not the best raiding gear, and manage to down 6/7 bosses, only ragnaros not because of the lack of time.

    But i ment in general DS idd.
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  12. #12
    For me it is a lot of the same reasons posted above. I much prefer playing on my personal schedule, if something comes up, I'm not leaving anyone hanging. With LFR now, I stay current on content and gear and can enjoy PvP and pokemon in my spare time too. I play every bit as much if not more than when I raided competitively, just not on someone else's schedule.

  13. #13
    I am currently retired from guild raiding, hopefully temporary.

    But what I can say is that real life schedule got real tight lately and I simply can't spare the time to raid like before.

    I intend to retun to at least Normal mode raiding someday, but I already accept the fact that Heroic raiding is out of question here.

    I think LFR gets boring really fast, but it makes sense that people don't have to struggle with conflicting schedules in real life to see raid content anymore. You just have a couple hours, hop into the queue, and do all the bosses without too much trouble. It is not the same as doing with friends, at all, but this is the reality for most people. Even more for people that grew up in the game and are adults with responsibilities today. Not just boring responsibilities, but going out with people, doing stuff in the real world. Having to be online everyday prevents this a bit...

  14. #14
    They're doing LFR and calling it good

  15. #15
    Scarab Lord Azutael's Avatar
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    I stopped doing actual raiding as early as mid TBC, it just got too time consuming. LFR can't really be called raiding, but it's enough to keep me somewhat satisfied.

  16. #16
    There's far more to do outside of raids now.. Dunno if that's the reason but it may be part of it.

  17. #17
    Brewmaster catbeef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionspride View Post
    FL wasn't as hard either, i joined a PUG and i had myself not the best raiding gear, and manage to down 6/7 bosses, only ragnaros not because of the lack of time.

    But i ment in general DS idd.
    with the introduction of hard mode in ulduar and heroic mode in coliseum - normal mode became more like a five-man dungeon only with more than five people. even 10man heroic for wotlk was considered 'free loot' mode to 25man guilds (different loot for 10/25 was annoying when the 10man item was itemised better. stupid thorim never gave me his rune, those were supposed to be my non-raiding nights )

    i mean, at first the idea of hard mode in ulduar was 'hey, who wants to be a show off and do these show off things lol,' but in coliseum it seemed quite obvious (the stark difference between the difficulties) that it was a way of letting more casual players see the content [well, in my opinion, it bloody well did a good job of looking that way]


    i only raided a little bit in cataclysm, blackwing descent heroic was a lot of fun. i did not get to try out bastion more than once or twice (apart from whatever his dragon-face was, halfus? jeez he was a push over). firelands was pretty good, it seemed pretty well balanced (after a few tweeks). hard-casting aimed shot hunter on ragnaros heroic was...... an experience.

    didn't see any dragonsoul on normal. the lfr option was a complete joke - although i heard from multiple old, old guild mates that dragonsoul heroic was fairly laughable.. and the people on my realm i saw running around with deathwing heroic items.. yeah, i could believe it.


    i don't know whether i would say raiding was any EASIER from cataclysm to lich king to burning crusade.. each expansion was very different on the class mechanics side. the game has a lot of features now that simply didn't exist. and i don't mean LOOKING FOR RAID or anything, i mean incredibly technical shit like absorbed damage and dot's and hot's. they just work differently now due to updates to the game engine.

    difficulty is really an objective thing, it depends on what you are good at. what your guild is good at. black temple was a fairly 'boss stands still, everyone hit the boss, some people do stuff' kind of dungeon. serpentshrine cavern (well, vashj and the lurker, off the top of my head) was a bit more.. everyone run around frantically.
    was black temple easier than ssc? was vashj easier than illidan? to me, illidan was a really well balanced encounter at the time. i enjoyed it quite a lot. vashj gave me a headache.

    i can't even think of an encounter since vashj that gave me such a headache.. maybe that one time when i was the only hunter for anub'arak heroic and i was in charge of misdirecting adds and shooting down the frost orbs in the right order at the right time and tranqing the adds and having to do a tonne of damage to anub'arak. but that was a fun kind of headache.. i liked that.

    WELL, apologies for my tired and dehydrated rambling. sometimes i miss heroic raiding, but at the same time i kind of like not HAVING to play wow most of the time. and at the same time again... it feels like there is nothing interesting to do in the game without heroic raiding. lfr is just mindless. nobody communicates, everyone expects everyone else to know what to do. actually, i lied, they communicate but the communication consists of 'LOL NOOBS' and that is about it. i really have never been in a lfr group that i would consider to be a proper raid group. just a bunch of people ignoring each other and hoping that they get a loot roll okay, i am done for real now.
    Last edited by catbeef; 2013-03-17 at 12:43 AM.

  18. #18
    I haven't raided after WotLK, but currently I do enjoy some ToT with LFR.

    I don't need to do normal/heroic if I can already see everything in LFR :P

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    The second blizz made bosses more challenging the number of "raiders" began to decline. The vast majority of players who are not top 500 quality just do not want to put in the effot to down challenging bosses. Throw LFR into the mix and you are now teaching "raiders" that is is not only acceptable to whine until the challenge of content is dropped to a level sufficient for EVERYONE to be able to complete it but hey lets throw in a wipe reward for the players who cannot even handle that.





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  20. #20
    In this thread: a lot of people that are finally starting to get the bored feeling of playing the same game for 7+ years and blaming it on poor or lazy design.

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