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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by Grogo View Post
    The 'elitist" remarks that is regularly thrown around is such a load of crap. I would bet that most raiders get excited for others and want them to experience what it is all about, what raiding has that attracts them. I do not want to keep others from raiding, I want more to see what it is all about, the essence. A bastardized version of it is just lame. Many are labelled elitist just because the person throwing it around usually has nothing else to fall back on.

    OK, I guess I have said enough on this, agree or not thanks for your opinions. I will finish off saying that LFR should be called LFU " Looking for Uninspired". hehe ... I kid I kid
    Considering, at least from my experience, 9 times out of 10, raiders are a very exclusionary bunch, and want to keep raiding for raiders who are already raiding, I tend to disagree with this sentiment. If you're absolutely new, you have a massive uphill battle to get into raiding in any decent capacity. People don't want new, inexperienced people, 9 times out of 10.

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Grogo View Post
    Ok fine. I will state the obvious though, my impression has been that you are likely taking 3-6 alts through looking for raid each week, and actually spending as much or more time than you did when you raided. I just do not understand why you could not just stay with 5 mans as they are the same skill level as LFR. Raiding and LFR are entirely different, the only similarities are the number of players in each.
    Obvious to who?

    In any case, for me, at least, you're wrong. I have lots of alts, but only one has been in LFR and that one only a couple of times. The rest have never run LFR. The only character I play is my main. It's the only character doing the new dailies, it's the only character running LFR and dungeons.

    Putting all that aside, you're missing the larger point. The number of hours someone plays doesn't really apply to this discussion. I may play as much as I did when I was actively progression raiding, but I'm no longer held a willing hostage to a specific schedule. If I log on and just don't feel like doing anything, I can just log off. Before if it was a raid night, I'd have the responsibility to my guild mates to show up and raid. Just to emphasize the point again, it's not about hours played, it's about not having a set scheduled.

    As far as LFR vs. 5 mans. I like both and run both. Pretty much mostly for valor, since I'm usually a victim of the RNG, even with extra rolls.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-20 at 03:14 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grogo View Post
    You raided because thats what was next? Ok fine. If you did not like raiding, I say you wouldnt of continued raiding because you did not like what it was about. If you continued raiding, you knew what you liked and why it appealed to you. What I am saying, is raiding and LFR are different. What you can experience in raiding is not what happens in LFR. Vastly different experience.
    I like raiding just fine. However, doing so on a set schedule no longer appeals to me. This is the key point you keep missing.
    Stating an opinion as fact does not make it fact. Opinions are not fact. So don't be stupid and make a fool of yourself by trying to pass off your opinion as fact.

  3. #363
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    Its just like Vanilla / TBC. Only that small percent that is good anough is raiding, The rest are doing LFR.

  4. #364
    I quit to play League of Legends. MoP forced me to do dailies. I hate dailies. There are more entertaining games out there, so they lost my business.

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    Considering, at least from my experience, 9 times out of 10, raiders are a very exclusionary bunch, and want to keep raiding for raiders who are already raiding, I tend to disagree with this sentiment. If you're absolutely new, you have a massive uphill battle to get into raiding in any decent capacity. People don't want new, inexperienced people, 9 times out of 10.
    This is an absolute farce. The raiding community will accept new people with open arms if they are willing to put in the effort and time to become good at their craft. In my pretty extensive experience recruiting and training people to raid the hardest thing to get players to do is take the time to learn their class. The ones that do have always been able to step up and fill in a role. As a matter of fact I am excited when a new player comes to me who has never raided and says they have interest. Generally at that point I have sat down and discussed with them what is needed from them. I even go as far as to go over their rotations, give a bit of my knowledge out and also go over the resources that are available for them to learn about their class. Problem is most of them just want to bitch because they aren't good enough and try to whine there way in instead of giving a little bit of effort. Anyone who raids at any level has started some where. Of course if you just started playing WoW and have no clue what you are doing but your uncle Bob hands you a level 90 toon then you are not going to be first choice. Now if that same person shows up asks questions, reads a little (which I know is asking allot) maybe even hits the dummies then they will find a spot.

    Now in the case of full on hardcore raid teams, yes they are pretty exclusionary but these guys are the pro level teams Unless you are well in tuned with the game and carry a high amount of skill you may not make it into these type of groups. That goes the same for any walk of life because some people are just on another level when it comes to certain aspects of life. I know our new society looks down on success and ability but the fact is that is only because of jealously. You jelly?

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Groups of 6 or more players are raids, and they're in an instance that can handle a group of larger than 5 players, making it a raid instance, and they're killing bosses, so they're raiding.
    no, raiding is organzied play, with tactics, guild effort, flasks, food, raid leader, loot rules, updating your status on wowprogress, wiping on a boss for couple of weeks.
    Thats raiding and not stupid LFR that is just bigger 5 man full of anonymous people.
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  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    no, raiding is organzied play, with tactics, guild effort, flasks, food, raid leader, loot rules, updating your status on wowprogress, wiping on a boss for couple of weeks.
    That's guild raiding at the very least, and you clearly don't understand what a definition is.

    EDIT: Dispensing with the guild part, you have the following:

    Organised play: LFR queuing system.
    Tactics: Try Elegon LFR with no tactics. Try Tsulong LFR with no tactics.
    Effort: Prerequisite of 460/470/480 item level.
    Flasks: Not required. LFR is balanced around not having flasks.
    Food: Not required, though banquets are often placed by some.
    Raid leader: There is one, but he wields less power than a Normal raid leader.
    Loot Rules: Unique to LFR to prevent ninjaing.
    Updating your status on WoWProgress: Can do it manually with your LFR clears.
    Wiping on a boss for a couple of weeks: Garalon pre-nerf, Elegon pre-nerf, probably Horridon (although the post-wipe buff has started to eradicate this).
    Last edited by Firebert; 2013-03-20 at 11:57 PM.
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  8. #368
    I think it's more attrition than anything. Raiding is fun from time to time, but being in a perpetual schedule for a certain amount of hours a week is not fun. Sometimes people don't want to show up (other things to do,etc) and sometimes they just stop caring all together, or new content comes out that they does not make them want to raid with the same enthusiasm.

    For instance when I was doing Ulduar and then Trial of the Champion (T9) came out I just did not care anymore and left a group of cool raiders but I was almost over joyed at that prospect given the free time it gave me.

    Another thing with LFR now you can see the content and just do PVP or single player activities and you still aren't missing out on much. You won't get the fancy gear, but if you do LFR you don't need it anyways.

    Raiding now can be done by basically anyone, at any time, as any role. And that is a lot more flexible and more in line with what people expect from games nowadays. I think the majority of people are perfectly satisfied with just doing LFR when they have a free 1.5 hours or so and then going back to doing whatever they want, without having to depend on 9/24 others to do what they want.

    In closing I'd like to say that I do enjoy raiding, I like the challenges, it is just too damned time consuming for me personally. And I like to have a spontaneous schedule going forward while playing WoW and not missing out on content. Thanks LFR!

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Organised play: LFR queuing system.
    Tactics: Try Elegon LFR with no tactics. Try Tsulong LFR with no tactics.
    Effort: Prerequisite of 460/470/480 item level.
    Flasks: Not required. LFR is balanced around not having flasks.
    Food: Not required, though banquets are often placed by some.
    Raid leader: There is one, but he wields less power than a Normal raid leader.
    Loot Rules: Unique to LFR to prevent ninjaing.
    Updating your status on WoWProgress: Can do it manually with your LFR clears.
    Wiping on a boss for a couple of weeks: Garalon pre-nerf, Elegon pre-nerf, probably Horridon (although the post-wipe buff has started to eradicate this).
    you're for real?
    ok, so if you think LFR is raiding, then lets be honest, you shouldnt be surprised they don't want you in raiding guilds.
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  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    ok, so if you think LFR is raiding, then lets be honest, you shouldnt be surprised they don't want you in raiding guilds.
    Is that a thinly-veiled personal attack on my mental state? Because if it is, I'll happily claim victory in this argument.
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  11. #371
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    LFR is per definition raiding, just like normal and heroic mode. They are separate difficulties and not separate things, just like a normal 5-player dungeon is still a 5-player dungeon even though harder versions of said dungeon exist in heroic and challenge modes.

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Is that a thinly-veiled personal attack on my mental state? Because if it is, I'll happily claim victory in this argument.
    you wrote it yourself few pages back
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Problem is, people see LFR as too easy, and this makes the LFR achievement worthless when you apply to a guild (I know from first-hand experience).
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  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    you're for real?
    ok, so if you think LFR is raiding, then lets be honest, you shouldnt be surprised they don't want you in raiding guilds.
    LFR stands for Looking For Raid.

    A Raid In world of warcraft is a group that is more then 5 people aka 10/25+ or in vanilla 40man's.

    You saying that LFR is not raiding is stupid.

    That would be like if someone who raided in Everquest came in here and said WOW raiding is not raiding since there is less then 100/200 people in the raid's "like EQ had"
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  14. #374
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    you wrote it yourself few pages back
    That's a problem with Normal raiding guilds, not with LFR.

    I still don't see how that makes me unworthy of a Normal raiding guild.
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  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    LFR stands for Looking For Raid.

    A Raid In world of warcraft is a group that is more then 5 people aka 10/25+ or in vanilla 40man's.

    You saying that LFR is not raiding is stupid.

    That would be like if someone who raided in Everquest came in here and said WOW raiding is not raiding since there is less then 100/200 people in the raid's "like EQ had"
    you are arguing over semantics and definitions, but the thing is - nobody cares.
    Yes we know it's calles "Raid" but no raider think it actually is.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-21 at 12:18 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    That's a problem with Normal raiding guilds, not with LFR.

    I still don't see how that makes me unworthy of a Normal raiding guild.
    beacause of standing on this goddamn floor on Elegon when you should gtfo. that kind of people will never make it to real raiding.
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  16. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    Yes we know it's calles "Raid" but no raider think it actually is.
    The odds of at least one Normal or Heroic Raider thinking that LFR is raiding is high, due to the sheer amount of raiders.

    The probability of at least one raider thinking that LFR is raiding is 1. I raid LFR, LFR is raiding.
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  17. #377
    For anecdotal evidence, our raiding team which has struggled at times to field a full 25 players for the raid is now almost able to run a 10 man raid alongside our main 25 progression, our numbers have swelled that much.

    So its all gravy for us
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  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    The odds of at least one Normal or Heroic Raider thinking that LFR is raiding is high, due to the sheer amount of raiders.

    The probability of at least one raider thinking that LFR is raiding is 1. I raid LFR, LFR is raiding.
    ok so you think the truth is what some single guy thinks. Keep on dreaming.
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  19. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    ok so you think the truth is what some single guy thinks. Keep on dreaming.
    You said "no raider thinks that LFR is raiding". All I need to do is find one and I've proven you wrong. Under the definition of raiding (that is, 6+ players in a group and in a zone made for 6+ people) you're wrong, and under your "definition" of raiding there's an incredibly high chance that you're wrong.
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  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    You said "no raider thinks that LFR is raiding". All I need to do is find one and I've proven you wrong. Under the definition of raiding (that is, 6+ players in a group and in a zone made for 6+ people) you're wrong, and under your "definition" of raiding there's an incredibly high chance that you're wrong.

    ok whaterver believe in what you want I don't care, but I have small proposition for you.
    Go to the raiding subforum and create a poll: "Do you consider LFR as real raiding" (not by a name)
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