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  1. #1141
    If you count LFR raidings probably bigger than it's ever been.

  2. #1142
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Wiping over and over is (for most people) dull, repetitive shit that is happening at the same time as they are supposed to be having fun. For some other people wiping over and over is the prelude to a good feeling when the boss finally dies.
    First of all me having a different opinion and not agreeing with you is not the same as me not accepting your view. And second of all you need to read my response because my calling something baffling had nothing to do with wiping over and over. If you re-read it you would see that I was calling the behavior of a dps leaving a group in LFR after one wipe baffling. It is baffling because they spent 45-60 mins in the queue just to give up after one wipe.

    Wiping, and failure at an encounter is par for the course in raiding. There should be no reason to give up just because you wipe a lot if you are interested in raiding. The thing is that not everyone that raids or wants to raid is an actual raider. That is why LFR was created to allow for those that don't like to wipe but still want to raid have a chance at raiding.

    Normal modes aren't even that hard. While garalon was a little tight on the enrage most guilds were not stuck on the enrage timer. Even in LFR people still fail at staying out from under the boss, even when it gives you a clear line on the screen to avoid. A lot of people could get carried when there were less mechanics and more "tank and spank" aspects to fights. But WoW has turned away from the tank and spank and towards the mechanic "action" game play. And that is where most people get a wake up call to their "actual" ability. Some learn from it and become better, some kill the guild because the realm doesn't have any recruits, and some just give up or find a guild of like minded people.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-11 at 09:21 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    I'd love to clear LFR. When will I be able to clear it? Most of the bosses for LFR haven't been available for the past month and in fact if I do lfr then I basically rob myself of the rep from the first couple of bosses
    Throne of thunder has been out for only a little over a month. The last wing of LFR opens next week. You've had 4 weeks for the first wing, 3 weeks for the second, and 2 weeks for the third. I also don't think you understand how the Shado-pan Assault reputation works if you think you are missing out on reputation by killing LFR bosses. It doesn't matter what difficulty you kill a boss in you get the same reputation once per week per boss across any difficulty. So you don't miss out on any reputation because you won't be gaining extra reputation by killing it with your normal mode group versus LFR.

    The Shado-pan Assault reputation gear isn't really designed for people to use to gear up. It is more to fill in gaps when the gear you need doesn't drop. Just because you can clear throne of thunder every week doesn't mean that all 10 or 25 people in the raid will get the gear they need. That is what Valor is for and that is the system that Blizzard is trying to move Valor back towards. It is supposed to be the backup plan and not the main plan.

    Besides you can easily get friendly which opens up 4 gear slots for you to purchase with valor for a combined total of 5500 valor points. That is five weeks of patch 5.2 or 2 weeks if you entered the patch already at the valor cap. You can potentially hit friendly in one night since you can farm trash up to friendly minus 1 reputation and turn friendly with the first boss kill. Jin'rokh is an easy boss on normal though it could take you two weeks into 5.2 if you just raid LFR.

    If you started 5.2 at 0 valor you just be able to afford those 4 items since this is the sixth week since the patch was released. Hardly terrible and hardly screwing those that need it most. You don't need everything right away.
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  3. #1143
    Quote Originally Posted by sarahfireworks View Post
    I dunno, there lots of challenging things in MMOs, both in WoW and in other games out there. Granted there's a lot of content in WoW and other games that doesn't push most people, but there are challenges to be found if you look for them.
    I think otiswhitakers point was that old school games challenge is that u 'work it all out yourself', the reason MMO is not challenging is that all u need to do is go on the internet and see how everyone else has overcome the challenge and copy them... and thats not very challenging at all. Anything u come across in Wow u just look up on the interent aznd problem solved, there is VERY LITTLE u actually work out yourself. All u do is try and try again with the methods u have read about on the interent and try and try again until u work out how to use your addons which help u to simplify the challenge.

    If Wow finally released a boss that nobody got to playtest and that nobody knows anything about, also force players to have no use of addons (warning for incoming boss abilities etc.) then we will truly have a challenge. Thats a gamers challenge right there.

    I tend to agree with Otis tho, all experienced gamers who have played every major game ever released can see Wow (and MMOs in general) are very low on the challenge scale. This is just the way it is among true gamers.
    Last edited by Endemonadia; 2013-04-12 at 01:25 AM.

  4. #1144
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    What we are saying is that normal skilled people should be able to clear a tier in 5 months with item upgrades nerfing it. This wasnt true in T14 and it wasnt going to be true in t15. 5 months for a tier is not equal to not wipe a single time.
    If you couldn't clear tier 14 after 5 months then you are not a normal mode raider. The problem is that normal skilled people are not who you are talking about because normal skilled people certainly could clear tier 14.
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  5. #1145
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    If you couldn't clear tier 14 after 5 months then you are not a normal mode raider. The problem is that normal skilled people are not who you are talking about because normal skilled people certainly could clear tier 14.
    Normal mode should be within 1 standard deviation of the median. Don't tell me 66% of guilds who managed to down stone guards also managed to down Sha.

  6. #1146
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Throne of thunder has been out for only a little over a month. The last wing of LFR opens next week. You've had 4 weeks for the first wing, 3 weeks for the second, and 2 weeks for the third. I also don't think you understand how the Shado-pan Assault reputation works if you think you are missing out on reputation by killing LFR bosses. It doesn't matter what difficulty you kill a boss in you get the same reputation once per week per boss across any difficulty. So you don't miss out on any reputation because you won't be gaining extra reputation by killing it with your normal mode group versus LFR.

    The Shado-pan Assault reputation gear isn't really designed for people to use to gear up. It is more to fill in gaps when the gear you need doesn't drop. Just because you can clear throne of thunder every week doesn't mean that all 10 or 25 people in the raid will get the gear they need. That is what Valor is for and that is the system that Blizzard is trying to move Valor back towards. It is supposed to be the backup plan and not the main plan.

    Besides you can easily get friendly which opens up 4 gear slots for you to purchase with valor for a combined total of 5500 valor points. That is five weeks of patch 5.2 or 2 weeks if you entered the patch already at the valor cap. You can potentially hit friendly in one night since you can farm trash up to friendly minus 1 reputation and turn friendly with the first boss kill. Jin'rokh is an easy boss on normal though it could take you two weeks into 5.2 if you just raid LFR.

    If you started 5.2 at 0 valor you just be able to afford those 4 items since this is the sixth week since the patch was released. Hardly terrible and hardly screwing those that need it most. You don't need everything right away.
    So much for LFR being optional for raidiers, I guess we abandoned that? Well here's the thing it doesn't really help people fill out slots WHEN THE SLOTS THEY NEED ARE GATED BEHIND REP. LIke I said and keep having repeat the people who can get access to that gear, are people who don't need the slots filled. I don't care how you want to view gear from valor, it's still fucking backwards that the people who need the gear can't get access to it but the people who are already clearing the raid have it and most of them don't really need it. It gets banked by them because guess what THEY GET BETTER PIECES FROM CLEARING THE RAID.

    This tier (and the expansion overall really) ought to prove to everyone harping back for the good old days of tbc raiding that the model was shit and that going back is not only detrimental it's just not feasible. When you give people options to circumvent painfully running old content and moving up the tier with catch up they OVERWHELMINGLY take the options that let them skip tiers and moving up. Hell they'd rather BUY honor gear to cheat the fucking ilvl and a huge loss of justice points rather than continually run old raids just to catch up and when they do catch up they say fuck it to normal raiding (and all the hassles and burdens of dealing with that) and run lfr.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-04-12 at 02:30 AM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  7. #1147
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    I don't care how you want to view gear from valor, it's still fucking backwards that the people who need the gear can't get access to it but the people who are already clearing the raid have it and most of them don't really need it. It gets banked by them because guess what THEY GET BETTER PIECES FROM CLEARING THE RAID.
    I totally do not understand the double gating for valor gear this tier. I don't know what good purpose it serves.

    It doesn't slow down the crazy "elitists" at all, because they don't play the game for fun, they play it to surpass other people. They would lick razor blades for valor points.

    It makes life suck for everyone else. Why would you design a game where players are thinking, en masse, "this sucks."

    ???

  8. #1148
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    I totally do not understand the double gating for valor gear this tier. I don't know what good purpose it serves.

    It doesn't slow down the crazy "elitists" at all, because they don't play the game for fun, they play it to surpass other people. They would lick razor blades for valor points.

    It makes life suck for everyone else. Why would you design a game where players are thinking, en masse, "this sucks."

    ???
    Not only that the crazy elitists HAVE THE REP ALREADY. This only gates the people who would already be gated by the simple fact that they aren't investing the time needed in the game anyway. It's fucking horse shit that they catered to the smaller group of people who CONSUME so much of the content. If I were the developer I would say well you had your 15 bucks worth piss the fuck off.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  9. #1149
    Bloodsail Admiral Sturmbringe's Avatar
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    Where have all the Raiders Gone?
    We quit the game I guess?

    I played since December 2005, and I quit several months ago as it was obvious that 25 man raiding was dead, and Blizzard wasn't going to do anything to bring it back. I found that WoW just wasn't fun when I wasn't part of a large raiding guild, so I stopped playing. I never liked the expansion theme too, although Pandaria (the continent) was cool.
    NINJA TURTLES as the next playable WoW race/class combo. WoW has got Kung Fu Pandas, Pokemon and recently even Transformers in it, so I don't see how Ninja Turtles would be any less pathetic than current "WoW" is.

  10. #1150
    Glorious Leader mate... take a chill pill concerning this topic mate. It seems that you get more and more frustrated everyday in this topic. We all can't help the fact that you couldn't properly heal Tortos. And I am not even saying that is your fault. There are numbers of reasons why this might be.

    example:
    1. yes ok, your skill - but since you were kind enough to let us know that you never ever had this same experience - I'll call this one false
    2. your guildies suck - could be I haven't heard any evidence to the contrary. However me stating this doesn't make it true, I don't know your guildies
    3. the encounter is not friendly to paladins - this I can sorta say is true. I am a holy paladin. I find it "frustrating" to not be able to run and heal at the same time. And thus this encounter sucks for me. Still I feel I got this fight under control. But I have only LFR experience on this one. So it is def. not the same.
    4. the fight is badly tuned. This could be the case. Still I believe that this fight is pretty good under the assumption that not every class is perfect for every fight. I'd say druids might have a blast healing this fight. Is that bad? No not as long as people can down this fight. And not everyone is meant to down everything. But I don't have the numbers to prove if this fight is badly tuned or not. Time will tell.

    I am with you on a lot of points in your previous posts. But I do not agree or want normal to be like Cata/WOTLK normal -where bosses could be oneshotted. I have had my fairshare of those bosses and that utterly sucks. Sure we all laugh and say "haha we're good!" While we just as well have said: "geez could Blizzard not have done a better job at making this atleast challenging?"

    What I do like is where LFR is going now. The fights there are from my pov better/more challenging. I am not saying they are difficult. But atleast you can wipe inthere and sometimes more then once.

    My advice to you and your guild (based on your posts): Go back farming/defeating content you haven't killed yet and then come back. Perhaps by that time the fights have been tuned more to your liking and you and your guild can have a sense of accomplishment that you completed an instance. And I don't mean this condensending (spelling?) either. I think this would be the best advice as long as the fights are - from what you tell me - too hard.

  11. #1151
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    If you couldn't clear tier 14 after 5 months then you are not a normal mode raider. The problem is that normal skilled people are not who you are talking about because normal skilled people certainly could clear tier 14.
    You see, this is just not true.

    75% of GUILDS trying to do Normal raiding couldnt end T14 in the 5 months it was up. 75%, so the tier was not easy to the point that if you didnt do it you are not a normal raider.

    BTW, i did finish it.

    But you see, the ones finishing it were indeed heroic raiders (which are included in that 25% of guilds that did finish it), normal raiders did not finish it

    Again, numbers are pretty clear. 75% of guilds that tried T14 couldnt finish it. The mayority of normal raiders couldnt clear T14 and wont be able to clear T15, because Blizzard is tuning Normal raiding to Heroic raiders.
    Last edited by Crashdummy; 2013-04-12 at 10:41 AM.

  12. #1152
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Glorious Leader mate... take a chill pill concerning this topic mate. It seems that you get more and more frustrated everyday in this topic. We all can't help the fact that you couldn't properly heal Tortos. And I am not even saying that is your fault. There are numbers of reasons why this might be.

    example:
    1. yes ok, your skill - but since you were kind enough to let us know that you never ever had this same experience - I'll call this one false
    2. your guildies suck - could be I haven't heard any evidence to the contrary. However me stating this doesn't make it true, I don't know your guildies
    3. the encounter is not friendly to paladins - this I can sorta say is true. I am a holy paladin. I find it "frustrating" to not be able to run and heal at the same time. And thus this encounter sucks for me. Still I feel I got this fight under control. But I have only LFR experience on this one. So it is def. not the same.
    4. the fight is badly tuned. This could be the case. Still I believe that this fight is pretty good under the assumption that not every class is perfect for every fight. I'd say druids might have a blast healing this fight. Is that bad? No not as long as people can down this fight. And not everyone is meant to down everything. But I don't have the numbers to prove if this fight is badly tuned or not. Time will tell.

    I am with you on a lot of points in your previous posts. But I do not agree or want normal to be like Cata/WOTLK normal -where bosses could be oneshotted. I have had my fairshare of those bosses and that utterly sucks. Sure we all laugh and say "haha we're good!" While we just as well have said: "geez could Blizzard not have done a better job at making this atleast challenging?"

    What I do like is where LFR is going now. The fights there are from my pov better/more challenging. I am not saying they are difficult. But atleast you can wipe inthere and sometimes more then once.

    My advice to you and your guild (based on your posts): Go back farming/defeating content you haven't killed yet and then come back. Perhaps by that time the fights have been tuned more to your liking and you and your guild can have a sense of accomplishment that you completed an instance. And I don't mean this condensending (spelling?) either. I think this would be the best advice as long as the fights are - from what you tell me - too hard.
    While that might be good advice for him, his point still stands as regards the general playerbase.

    Normal raids are tuned too tightly for the average would be raider. It's the T11 problem of being overtuned all over again, and it has wound up the same way as firelands did - blanket nerfs so that regular people can actually clear the content. Next up will come a DS style raid which caters to the playerbase at large but which the elitists decry as "too easy." Hopefully this time round blizz will finally just stop wasting time catering to the best players and instead focus on the average.

    I never really understood why they do it. The best players will sit there until the cows come home and clear more or less anything. They'll sink 500 wipes into a boss for that amazing feeling they get when it finally falls over. They'll come up with complicated strategies, workarounds and whatnot to get things done. Basically they are like the terminator versus the content - which makes it pointless trying to slow them down. Just hive them off into heroic content which is set insanely high and let them wipe in it.

    Everyone else is more like "20 wipes and it's still not dead? Fuck that then, I wanna have fun. What's on TV?" and when these people aren't catered to it's sub losses, community implosions, guild deaths and investor QQ.

    The only thing I can think of is that normal people just stop bothering when the game is irritating to them, whereas the seriously into the game and hardcore will whinge on the forums to try and get what they want. Squeaky wheel syndrome. or maybe it's the PTR reports are massively skewed because of the preponderance of hardcores in testing.

    In any event, the game is too hard for it's customers again, so expect the next raid to be 5 morchoks before a challenge.
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  13. #1153
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    While that might be good advice for him, his point still stands as regards the general playerbase.

    Normal raids are tuned too tightly for the average would be raider. It's the T11 problem of being overtuned all over again, and it has wound up the same way as firelands did - blanket nerfs so that regular people can actually clear the content. Next up will come a DS style raid which caters to the playerbase at large but which the elitists decry as "too easy." Hopefully this time round blizz will finally just stop wasting time catering to the best players and instead focus on the average.

    I never really understood why they do it. The best players will sit there until the cows come home and clear more or less anything. They'll sink 500 wipes into a boss for that amazing feeling they get when it finally falls over. They'll come up with complicated strategies, workarounds and whatnot to get things done. Basically they are like the terminator versus the content - which makes it pointless trying to slow them down. Just hive them off into heroic content which is set insanely high and let them wipe in it.

    Everyone else is more like "20 wipes and it's still not dead? Fuck that then, I wanna have fun. What's on TV?" and when these people aren't catered to it's sub losses, community implosions, guild deaths and investor QQ.

    The only thing I can think of is that normal people just stop bothering when the game is irritating to them, whereas the seriously into the game and hardcore will whinge on the forums to try and get what they want. Squeaky wheel syndrome. or maybe it's the PTR reports are massively skewed because of the preponderance of hardcores in testing.

    In any event, the game is too hard for it's customers again, so expect the next raid to be 5 morchoks before a challenge.
    Hm, didn't you first say 6-10 wipes, now is 20? You can't design encounter's by how your friends and you want to raid and wipe. You know, 20 wipes for you and me is very different. Maybe you can kill it on 21st and I still need 30 more? So, to who they should cater? If you rather wanna watch TV, go. Better for you.
    I don't want another DS where you could rush through it like LFR. I swear to God that at one point it became like LFR with that crazy nerfs.

  14. #1154
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalmar View Post
    Hm, didn't you first say 6-10 wipes, now is 20?
    "Someone who opposes your point of view but can't find a fault with it will always nitpick where they can, it's rather sad" - my first politics teacher.
    You can't design encounter's by how your friends and you want to raid and wipe. You know, 20 wipes for you and me is very different. Maybe you can kill it on 21st and I still need 30 more? So, to who they should cater? If you rather wanna watch TV, go. Better for you.
    I don't want another DS where you could rush through it like LFR. I swear to God that at one point it became like LFR with that crazy nerfs.
    I'm 7/12 pre nerf on normal. I'm not talking about my own experience, nor about what I myself enjoy.
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  15. #1155
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    While that might be good advice for him, his point still stands as regards the general playerbase.

    Normal raids are tuned too tightly for the average would be raider. It's the T11 problem of being overtuned all over again, and it has wound up the same way as firelands did - blanket nerfs so that regular people can actually clear the content. Next up will come a DS style raid which caters to the playerbase at large but which the elitists decry as "too easy." Hopefully this time round blizz will finally just stop wasting time catering to the best players and instead focus on the average.

    I never really understood why they do it. The best players will sit there until the cows come home and clear more or less anything. They'll sink 500 wipes into a boss for that amazing feeling they get when it finally falls over. They'll come up with complicated strategies, workarounds and whatnot to get things done. Basically they are like the terminator versus the content - which makes it pointless trying to slow them down. Just hive them off into heroic content which is set insanely high and let them wipe in it.

    Everyone else is more like "20 wipes and it's still not dead? Fuck that then, I wanna have fun. What's on TV?" and when these people aren't catered to it's sub losses, community implosions, guild deaths and investor QQ.

    The only thing I can think of is that normal people just stop bothering when the game is irritating to them, whereas the seriously into the game and hardcore will whinge on the forums to try and get what they want. Squeaky wheel syndrome. or maybe it's the PTR reports are massively skewed because of the preponderance of hardcores in testing.

    In any event, the game is too hard for it's customers again, so expect the next raid to be 5 morchoks before a challenge.
    What I am about to say isn't personal or specifically directed at you. But I see a lot of people saying (including you yes), that "normal" people don't want to wipe on a boss more then 20 times. And as you stated their guild explodes.

    Tbh and I know Blizzard keeps getting to agree with "those" people more and more..... I think those people should not play this game. If you can't bother with wiping more then 20 times per boss - gtfo or raid LFR. People need to learn the fight. If they have trouble learning the fight and therefor not having fun... this is not the game for you.

    But whom am I kidding right - since probably the most cash is coming in from those players - I just have to accept that the current raids in ToT are badly tuned for "those" people.

    As a former hardcore/commited player, I truly despise people who play this game the way you described. "Having a laugh while drunk and still want to down a boss within 20 wipes."

    I totally dispise those players for ruining what use to be a good and for the most balanced game in terms of PVE. However since I do not do normals or heroic anymore, I stopped caring much about stuff like this. But yes sometimes my former attitude pops up when I just get too much input from comments like these

  16. #1156
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    What I am about to say isn't personal or specifically directed at you. But I see a lot of people saying (including you yes), that "normal" people don't want to wipe on a boss more then 20 times. And as you stated their guild explodes.

    Tbh and I know Blizzard keeps getting to agree with "those" people more and more..... I think those people should not play this game. If you can't bother with wiping more then 20 times per boss - gtfo or raid LFR. People need to learn the fight. If they have trouble learning the fight and therefor not having fun... this is not the game for you.

    But whom am I kidding right - since probably the most cash is coming in from those players - I just have to accept that the current raids in ToT are badly tuned for "those" people.

    As a former hardcore/commited player, I truly despise people who play this game the way you described. "Having a laugh while drunk and still want to down a boss within 20 wipes."

    I totally dispise those players for ruining what use to be a good and for the most balanced game in terms of PVE. However since I do not do normals or heroic anymore, I stopped caring much about stuff like this. But yes sometimes my former attitude pops up when I just get too much input from comments like these
    Well, the first thing to realise is - wow is a business.

    Second one is that average and bad player massively outnumber you and have more money.

    Third one is, your feelings are not reciprocated by the casual or average, they don't even notice you.
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  17. #1157
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    "Someone who opposes your point of view but can't find a fault with it will always nitpick where they can, it's rather sad" - my first politics teacher.


    I'm 7/12 pre nerf on normal. I'm not talking about my own experience, nor about what I myself enjoy.
    Ah, nitpicking? There is a big difference between 6 and 20 wipes. I presume before kills you are watching strategies on youtube? You have addons that tell you are standing in fire and you need to move?
    Imagine that you don't have that all. Man, the horror... Would you even raid then?
    I think it's rather sad that there are gamers here that rather spend their time on forums demanding for nerfs because hey, I can clear LFR but can't clear normal. Let's nerf normal so I can say I cleared it -.-
    And good for you that you are 7/12, that isn't the point. But you are more then half way there with only a month of raiding. That is very good for a normal raider who only raids normals.

  18. #1158
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    Of those 700k guilds, only 40k killled Stone Guards normal, the rest dont raid and are therefore irelevant for the discussion.

    13k killed empress before 5.2. 18k killed empress as for today. Around 50% more, means a lot of people was trying to kill the bosses and were failing, and the fact that only 13k guilds have killed was not due to people not trying. The nerf was needed a long time ago (it was needed when it was current).

    Now, if you want to take the 660k guilds that dont even try to do the content because you have no real arguments, then i feel sorry for you.
    I wonder if my bank guild is tracked among those 700k guilds, probably not but maybe those levelling guilds are hmm?^^

    And again bear league 10 man raiding in wrath was better and did include more of those average players in raiding.
    But well sinse "raids" are now used more through LFR, we will probably never see a return to a pre-LFR age.
    It would be better if they removed LFR, and let raids be something that was player organised, then maybe it could feel like an mmo again for the raiders.
    and before people come with average players. Well the average player doesn't raid nor does he do LFR so what if there is some content that people have to organise for, it might even just be a bloody pug.

  19. #1159
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalmar View Post
    Ah, nitpicking? There is a big difference between 6 and 20 wipes. I presume before kills you are watching strategies on youtube? You have addons that tell you are standing in fire and you need to move?
    I'm happy to wipe dozens of times.
    Imagine that you don't have that all. Man, the horror... Would you even raid then?
    Seeing as I have been at it since vanilla beta, and my preferred way of pulling a boss is blind with no tactics given, yeah.
    I think it's rather sad that there are gamers here that rather spend their time on forums demanding for nerfs because hey, I can clear LFR but can't clear normal. Let's nerf normal so I can say I cleared it -.-
    And good for you that you are 7/12, that isn't the point. But you are more then half way there with only a month of raiding. That is very good for a normal raider who only raids normals.
    Yeah I know.

    I'm not talking about my experience, i'm talking about what the numbers, nerfs and competion rates indicate. Cos you know, I like the game as a whole and realise it needs the big playerbase to have raids at all. ;p
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  20. #1160
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    I'm happy to wipe dozens of times.


    Seeing as I have been at it since vanilla beta, and my preferred way of pulling a boss is blind with no tactics given, yeah.


    Yeah I know.

    I'm not talking about my experience, i'm talking about what the numbers, nerfs and competion rates indicate. Cos you know, I like the game as a whole and realise it needs the big playerbase to have raids at all. ;p
    Well, you are a raider then Let Blizzard use their data to figure what's best, as they did over the years. Fine, if there has to be middle ground so more ppl are happy it's ok. But you will never please everyone. There will always be guys who come here and demand nerfs, even with 30% nerfs. But normals can finally be normals, not PuG accessible content. At least until you overgear it.

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