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  1. #1341
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    If you want to keep on playing the "And By Extension" card...

    The change in the lockout was because players were getting burned out on running 10-man and 25-man raids. All Blizzard really do nowadays is fix community problems (LFD, LFR) and provide content.
    Yea but they basically set themselves up for this again with LFR.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  2. #1342
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Yea but they basically set themselves up for this again with LFR.
    Which is why we'll probably see LFR put on the Normal lockout for loot (that is, if you kill a boss in LFR after you've killed him in Normal for the week, you're ineligible for loot).
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  3. #1343
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Which is why we'll probably see LFR put on the Normal lockout for loot (that is, if you kill a boss in LFR after you've killed him in Normal for the week, you're ineligible for loot).
    Considering how low normal raiding participation is at the moment I doubt they would do this.

  4. #1344
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Which is why we'll probably see LFR put on the Normal lockout for loot (that is, if you kill a boss in LFR after you've killed him in Normal for the week, you're ineligible for loot).
    Yea I doubt that. To be honest I would probably unsub if they did that. Lfr represents a pretty good way to get some gear outside of the raid and it's not likely I can ge the 9 other players in my guild to go back and do heroic toes or heroic anything that isn't current tier.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  5. #1345
    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    The problem is that gear >>>> skill A FREAKING LOT nowadays. And in the end of tier he would have something like 515-520 iLvl with crappy lfr weapon; and while on a test run with at least full normal + tf geared + some heroic + some tf heroic geared 530+ players his skill would be invisible. Also, him being a Ret paladin makes things even worse, since Ret atm is the worst plate dps class for 10m at least.
    You only have to show potential, AKA good raid awareness and good mechanics (high uptime on spec specific buffs). When progression is over, most guilds are looking to improve their roster's talent pool, so they're much more lenient on gear.

  6. #1346
    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    The problem is that gear >>>> skill A FREAKING LOT nowadays. And in the end of tier he would have something like 515-520 iLvl with crappy lfr weapon; and while on a test run with at least full normal + tf geared + some heroic + some tf heroic geared 530+ players his skill would be invisible. Also, him being a Ret paladin makes things even worse, since Ret atm is the worst plate dps class for 10m at least.
    Isn't this exactly what TBC elitist fanboys wanted?

  7. #1347
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Which is why we'll probably see LFR put on the Normal lockout for loot (that is, if you kill a boss in LFR after you've killed him in Normal for the week, you're ineligible for loot).
    Putting LFR on a lockout with normal will damage queue times, and really hurt pugs... I'm not sure Blizzard wants to do either thing.

    I'd say it might be reasonable to not have all bosses available on LFR perhaps. Maybe exclude the end boss of each tier. (?)
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  8. #1348
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Which is why we'll probably see LFR put on the Normal lockout for loot (that is, if you kill a boss in LFR after you've killed him in Normal for the week, you're ineligible for loot).
    I'm not sure I see a reason why they would wish to do that. More likely they'll continue to look for ways to get it through some very stubborn skulls that if you don't really want to do LFR, you don't have to but if you want to, it's OK.
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  9. #1349
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I'm not sure I see a reason why they would wish to do that. More likely they'll continue to look for ways to get it through some very stubborn skulls that if you don't really want to do LFR, you don't have to but if you want to, it's OK.
    Whilst you do not have to LFR in the same way you do not have to anything in game I feel that this statement is wide of the mark. It is not possible to cap your valour each week running normal raids and with the current level of difficulty the normal raider needs every step up on the gear ladder they can get. For those that do not participate in organised raiding there is absolutely nothing else for them to do if they wish to progress their character.

  10. #1350
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Which is why we'll probably see LFR put on the Normal lockout for loot (that is, if you kill a boss in LFR after you've killed him in Normal for the week, you're ineligible for loot).
    Which is basicly putting LFR on a seperate lockout...

    Welcome normal mode raiders you can get to kill 1 boss with us for the first many weeks and then rush through LFR for loot on the last day before reset.

    And I would say the dual system of runnning 10 and 25 in wrath was more enjoyable than the current of LFR and 10/25.
    And it did give you the possibility of fun social "beer league" raiding as someone called it. Sure people burned out back then but they burn out the same now a days so really...
    Maybe we schould try to find some burnout rates and compare them if there is such a thing. Or maybe just look at the amount of subscribers that have left.
    But well in the end the amount of raiders is become negliable compared to the vast mass of players playing this game so well.
    Why blizzard thinks that casual players will find it fun in the long run to what is basicly a single player experience I cannot fathom. It is like saying casual players do not want to play with other people in an MMO...

  11. #1351
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    Heres one from my own guild.

    The MT and OT are away for a few weeks - weds scheduled raid featured a lot of no shows.

    Why? Because everyone knows it means training two new guys up and therefore wiping over and over all night on stuff that's already been killed. And given learning it in the first place meant wiping over and over, people simply can't be arsed. Now, imagine that we weren't talking about a holiday but key players quitting entirely and we'd have a guild implosion. 2 raiders quit but in effect it means a ten man dies, at least for a while.
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  12. #1352
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Heres one from my own guild.

    The MT and OT are away for a few weeks - weds scheduled raid featured a lot of no shows.

    Why? Because everyone knows it means training two new guys up and therefore wiping over and over all night on stuff that's already been killed. And given learning it in the first place meant wiping over and over, people simply can't be arsed. Now, imagine that we weren't talking about a holiday but key players quitting entirely and we'd have a guild implosion. 2 raiders quit but in effect it means a ten man dies, at least for a while.
    maybe my answer is a bit far fetched, but your guilds attitude sucks

    deal with that

    "normal guilds" where everything is peachy - actually want to take the time to see if that worst case scenario happens. I think any sensible GM/raidleader would call the raid if you get what you think is going to happen - or would actually take the time to invest in players so this would be one time (or perhaps 2 times) where this kind of thing would happen.

  13. #1353
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    maybe my answer is a bit far fetched, but your guilds attitude sucks

    The last line of defense of a broken game is to blame its players.

    Such arguments can work in isolated cases. When the data show that most guilds have struggled and most have failed, they don't work.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
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  14. #1354
    Quote Originally Posted by Wælcyrie View Post
    Moved onto other games.
    I've yet to find a better game, yea other games have cool graphics and the other new snazzy shiz. But nothing is as good as WoW to me and believe me I tried to get into other games. But I'm a person that doesn't get bored easily. Been playing WoW 8 yrs and haven't gotten bored.

  15. #1355
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    maybe my answer is a bit far fetched, but your guilds attitude sucks
    Not at all. The open policy is that everything is voluntary.

    People not turning up is feedback which is absolutely essential for me to have in order to plan for the future and what I have to do. What you get when it's not voluntary is people turning up, hating it, then they hate the game and then they quit - either the guild or the game. And they do that without telling you.
    deal with that

    "normal guilds" where everything is peachy - actually want to take the time to see if that worst case scenario happens. I think any sensible GM/raidleader would call the raid if you get what you think is going to happen - or would actually take the time to invest in players so this would be one time (or perhaps 2 times) where this kind of thing would happen.
    I dont think or guess, I find out by letting everyone do whatever they want.

    It's why I run the best social guild in the world with a retention rate which would simply astonish you.

    Ofc you dumped "friends" in exchange for purple pixels so I doubt you'd understand.
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  16. #1356
    Bloodsail Admiral soulcrusher's Avatar
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    its nothing to do with a new generation of spoon fed. its more people just cannot be fecked anymore. i know i cant. whats the point. not everyone is interested in achieving absolute perftection at their class to the detriment of real life. most just want to play, have some fun, see the fights and not get stressed.

  17. #1357
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    The open policy is that everything is voluntary.
    I think these kinds of situations often just come down to common courtesy towards the other people.

  18. #1358
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Considering how low normal raiding participation is at the moment I doubt they would do this.
    Oh, Normal/Heroic's going out the window soon, it's just a matter of how many stepping stones do you need to get there.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 03:51 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    I'd say it might be reasonable to not have all bosses available on LFR perhaps. Maybe exclude the end boss of each tier. (?)
    Or just the hard ones.
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  19. #1359
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    The assumption that guilds (normal or heroic) would actually be interested in spending raid time going back to old raids for one or two potential recruits to get them gear is about the stupidest fucking thing I can think of in the universe and I hope by now we've (and by we've I mean the developers) come to the conclusion that everyone demanding tiered raiding come back was just full of it. It's like the challenge modes. Everybody and their mother insisted that making dungeons hard was the way to go and then nobody did challenge modes. Well nobody is going back to farm old content, they don't want to. They run lfr instead. Duh. You honestly think 8 or 9 folks want to go back and do content they've already beat the crap out of the get gear for 1 or 2 POTENTIAL PLAYERS that isn't even guaranteed to drop for them? Wtf kinda catch up is that?
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  20. #1360
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Heres one from my own guild.

    The MT and OT are away for a few weeks - weds scheduled raid featured a lot of no shows.

    Why? Because everyone knows it means training two new guys up and therefore wiping over and over all night on stuff that's already been killed. And given learning it in the first place meant wiping over and over, people simply can't be arsed. Now, imagine that we weren't talking about a holiday but key players quitting entirely and we'd have a guild implosion. 2 raiders quit but in effect it means a ten man dies, at least for a while.
    So no one in your guild has a tank alt that has the slightest shade of gear? I mean, heaven forbid you have to go back a tier for a quick cleanup of old bosses to gear tanks. Not like guilds of expansions past have EVER had to do that, right?

    A part of being a good guild is having a "plan B" in case the worst case scenario occurs. Clearly, you have no fallout plan for both tanks leaving. That is your own damn fault, not Blizzard's.

    You guys just aren't prepared. Oh well, collective raiding break for a "few weeks" if you aren't willing to bring in a couple new members. That's the way it works. If a guild implodes because people quit, then your recruiting methods need a serious evaluation. Now is a good time to do that, before more of your members leave due to lack of leadership. Mediocre 10 man guilds are a dime a dozen, anyway.

    There's just so much whining and crying these days, its ridiculous. Whatever happened to just doing what it takes to prevail?
    Last edited by Toxigen; 2013-04-19 at 03:30 PM.

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